Rober H

I don't believe that you are here to learn why some people reject evolution. I believe you are here to try and sell something. That is what I believe. You say life can happen by luck. You can't prove that so you accept it by faith. I am getting very bored... You are here to sell evolutionary theory as a fact. Cut and dry plain and simple... You have not been able to do that so don't feel like the "lone ranger". No one here is buying what you are selling.

Evolution or God's Word Dave Hunt http://www.thebereancall.org/Newsletter/html/1997/feb97.php "In his book, The Blind Watchmaker, Oxford University zoologist Richard Dawkins, a leading evolutionist, calls biology "the study of complicated things that give the appearance of having been designed for a purpose."13 Indeed! One cell, the smallest living unit, could have 100,000 molecules and 10,000 intricately interrelated chemical reactions going on at one time. Cells couldn't arise by chance! Dawkins admits that every cell contains in its nucleus "a digitally coded database larger...than all 30 volumes of the Encyclopedia Britannica put together."14 You can't even imagine the odds against chance creating a 30-volume encyclopedia! That's for one cell

Yes, it can. Nice to see simplicity in an often chaotic board. Evolution's premise is that species are capable of generating new ones via natural selection. It is logical to conclude that this extends back to abiogenesis, but this is an area outside of evolution. It is the realm of chemistry and biochemistry. I trust you have heard of the (in)famous experiments to recreate the 'primordial soup'? And that some amino acids where created? Given that this was an imprefect recreation of an ancient phenomenon that was carried out in a minute fraction of the time it took in reality, the results are most impressive. Imagine the results if the experiment was continued for millions of years? We may even end up with a mini Garden of Eden in the petri dish. Who created God?

Life could not have resulted from a random act of chance or blind, dumb, luck.

This is a Christian forum so the answer should be a no brainer. And just to clarify I don't need to explain God to you he is self evident. Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

I am not aware of this paritcular experiment, but, if it indeed comes under the umbrella of micro-evolution, then this is a poor argument. Creationists believe in micro-evolution as well. We even believe that wolves, dogs, and coyotes likely derive from a single canine-esque ancestor. But not from rocks. You continue to state that "evolution" (I assume you include the other five varieties, ie cosmic, macro, etc) is a proven, empirically observed fact, when in fact it is no such thing. It is a theory, the "evidence" for which has been eroded to the point that it is ridiculous to imply that a person subscribing to evolution doesn't have to exercise at least some degree of faith. As for negative social impacts of evolutionism, have you ever looked at the cover of Darwin's Origin of Species? Then you know the full title. If you have ever read the book, you know that Darwin applies the concept thereof to human beings. How can such racism be ignored as socially unacceptable? Perhaps you have never heard of an event that took place some years after the publishing of the book. Basing the exhibit upon Darwin's assertion that aboriginal peoples were the least evolved "race" from an ape-like creature, a zoo (whether in America or in England, I do not recall) captured such a person from Australia and left him naked in a cage with apes for years. This was a human being. But, according to evolution, we are all animals anyway. Why shouldn't we treat each other like this? We have no purpose: we are an accident and of no more worth than sludge on a rock, which we once were. Thanks, I like your writing style and your concise answer. I am impressed.

Mike writes Exactly, That is what we are saying too. The bible states that we need to warn the sheep about wolves. Those of us who have studied need to warn and exhort those who haven't. Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Acts 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Acts 20:31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. The wolves cannot be removed if they are not exposed. The problem is that the wolves are being defended, embraced and tolerated. Jesus had a warning for the church of Thyatira. Revelation 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols We cannot "sufferest" (tolerate) these men and allow them to continue to seduce Christ's servants. The wolves call those who would expose them neo-pharisees etc. It has obviously been effective in diverting attention from themselves. We have work to do.

Christians don't "define God". We don't need to explain God. Evolution is not a fact. The bible is our criterion for truth. You don't have to accept that and we don't have to accept the beliefs of non-believers. Real simple. 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. dd_8630, are you an atheist or agnostic.?

Evolution is a theory and a poor one at that. God created all things. That is a fact. Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. Urging parents to teach evolution as fact is evil because it has not been established as a fact and never will be. It is in fact a lie. Here are some links to sites that can aid bible believing Christians. http://www.answersingenesis.org/home.aspx http://www.christiananswers.net/creation/home.html

Do you think you could cut down the length of your posts? I don't have time to wade through all that!

Your post is very well done. That sums it up for me!

Good morning Mike, Even if the "sign gifts" were available today which you and I do not agree on not everyone would have the power to do miracles, healings, etc. The Holy Spirit is not our servant and at our command. 1 Corinthians 12:29-30 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? The answer is no... Mike you wrote: Warning the sheep from being deceived and pointing out the deceivers who are trying to harm them is a mandate from Christ. I will give those who are exposing the wolves the benefit of the doubt until it is proven other wise. Even if their hearts are not in the right place I would look into the allegations and see for myself if it is true or not. I am not going to worry if the heart of a person who warns me that there is a gang of muggers hiding down the street waiting for people to steal from is "perfect" before God. I find it interesting and sad that many people seem to be more concerned for the wolves then those they prey upon. Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. I am going to take Christ's warning to heart.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon The Lord Our Companion Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. (Psalm 23:4) Sweet are these words in describing a deathbed assurance. How many have repeated them in their last hours with intense delight! But the verse is equally applicable to agonies of spirit in the midst of life. Some of us, like Paul, die daily through a tendency to gloom of soul. Bunyan puts the Valley of the Shadow of Death far earlier in the pilgrimage than the river which rolls at the foot of the celestial hills. We have some of us traversed the dark and dreadful defile of "the shadow of death" several times, and we can bear witness that the Lord alone enabled us to bear up amid its wild thought, its mysterious horrors, its terrible depressions. The Lord has sustained us and kept us above all real fear of evil, even when our spirit has been overwhelmed. We have been pressed and oppressed, but yet we have lived, for we have felt the presence of the Great Shepherd and have been confident that His crook would prevent the foe from giving us any deadly wound. Should the present time be one darkened by the raven wings of a great sorrow, let us glorify God by a peaceful trust in Him.

I know where you stand. I understood.

Hello Mike, Paul was an apostle and his words were binding upon the church. These gifts were not for everyone. Mark 16:19-20 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen. The false prophets and teachers of TBN cannot bind their critics tongues. The apostles during the foundational period of the chruch had their authority confimed by signs and wonders. There is a reason the book of Acts is called the "Acts of the Apostles". Acts 2:42-43 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles. God is not at our beck and call we are supposed to be at His. This is all that you said in the post. Is it fair to say you cannot bind a man's tongue? The above incident does not provide doctrinal evidence that all Christians have the power to "bind men's tongues and force them to tell nothing but the truth" then Elijah calling down fire from heaven is given to every Christian today. We need to refute false doctrine from the scriptures. Paul was doing the work of an apostle and God was confirming his words with signs following (Mark 16:20). We have the completed scriptures today. That is what we as Christians are to use to refute error. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Praise God! This makes my day.

That is a very mean spirited tactic and diversion that TBN and it's leaders use to quelch those who point out false teacers and teachings isn't it?

apothanein kerdos I never said that said that you said "solely" so keep your money and your word. Please, continue to post here. It is up to you to go our stay. As far as I am concerned you are welcome. I said "solely" because I want to put the emphasis on error and the ones promoting it. I don't want to focus on just bad doctrine and have given my reasons for naming names. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Robert

Heresey can be repackaged and resold. The bible teaches exposing the teachings and naming the names of those responsible for the heresey. That is the rebuttle. Teach against the heresey and the heretick The reason for doing this is summed up in the following quote: Because the people who are promoting false doctrines like the "Word Faith" and "Prosperity gospels" are not named and spoken against it appears to many that these men and women's doctrines are biblical. There would be no need for the bible to point out wolves if the emphasis was to be placed soley on the teaching and not the teacher. The wolf and his practices are shown. I have given scripture over and over again where the heretick or false prophet is named. I will be happy to repeat them and add dozens more.

This question by Ovedya is really the crux of the issue. Speaking for myself I will continue to bring the focus back to this and the fact that when a person tries to expose specific heresies and the people that promote them tactics are used by people like Paul Crouch to take the focus off the heretic and the heresey and place the focus on the one pointing out the error. Here is why topics like this are important.

Many heresies being preached by those who call those of us who expose false doctrines names such as heresey hunters and Neo-Pharisees are using mixtures of heresies from the past and re-packaging them. Here is what John MacArthur states. There are many ways to divert the focus of a topic and this thread proves it.

Speaking against false prophets and witchcraft in the bible is nothing knew and the bible oft times names the names of those who promote heresey as well as their errors. Acts 13:8-11 But Elymas the sorcerer (for so is his name by interpretation) withstood them, seeking to turn away the deputy from the faith. Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him, And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord? And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season. And immediately there fell on him a mist and a darkness; and he went about seeking some to lead him by the hand. I am still waiting for the truth of this to be refuted by scripture. And apothanein kerdos, "Sighing" is not an argument or a very intelligent rebuttle. The bible names name as well as preaching against false doctrine. This is an irrefutable fact. In His word, Robert

1 Peter 5:6-7 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time: Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you. Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

If those of us who wish to expose error are to be labled as "neo-pharisees" heresey hunters" or being on a "witch hunt" then so be it. Luke 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets. The "prosperity gospel" versus the bible. 1 Timothy 6:6-11 But godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. And having food and raiment let us be therewith content. But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.