Rober H

The bible teaches that man was created from the dust of the ground. It does not teach that man evolved from slime. I believe the bible and reject evolution. A Christian should reject Theistic evoulution and any church that teaches otherwise is deceived. Genesis 1:26-27 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Evolution called "theistic" or otherwise is a lie. Christians should not cater to atheists to make God more palatable to them. Psalms 53:1 To the chief Musician upon Mahalath, Maschil, A Psalm of David. The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

The purpose of this thread is to defend and discuss the gospel and show how easily it can be perverted. Paul seemed to think it was an important issue. The church today is too worried about "getting along" to care. Galatians 1:6-9 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. Why is it discussing when someone tears down the belief in eternal security but bashing when someone defends the gospel against those who present another? Has anyone read the Statement of Faith in this forum?

Salvation and the gospel of Christ are in the bible. We are to believe God's word not the teachings of a church. We are saved by grace through faith. We are not under law. Christians certainly are not under Roman Catholic law. Galatians 3:10-14 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Rome has another gospel which is not another. For bible believing Christians to join Rome's ecumenical movement would be a betrayal of the cross. The reformation was not an out flow from Rome but a return to biblical principles. There is no "Pope" in the bible.

I am not Catholic bashing. When you believe the gospel you are in the church. You are not saved by the church. I do not agree with you at all. Ephesians 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Ephesians 2:19-22 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Leonard

"Basing itself on scripture and tradition, it teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mk. 16:16; Jn. 3:5), and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through baptism as through a door. Hence, they could not be saved who knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it, or to remain in it." (Vol. 1, pp. 365 and 366) Vatican II It certainly would appear that the above quotes teach salvation through and in the church rather than Christ. This next quote from the Council of Trent is an example of "adding to the gospel" which makes it "another gospel which is not another". There are many things which can "pervert the gospel of Christ". This is but one. Paul was so emphatic on warning the church he repeated it twice. Galatians 1:8-9 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Satan disguised himself as an angel of light and so does his ministers. Much if not most of the church which should be well versed in Satan's tactics are falling hook line and sinker for every heresey the comes down the pike. 2 Corinthians 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 2 Corinthians 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. Things will get so bad that Jesus asked this question. Luke 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth? No man should be above rebuke or correction but I am amazed at how many people are shocked when their favorite televangelist or a person with a popular ministry is even questioned. If Peter was not above rebuke or critisism where does that leave the rest of us? Matthew 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. Matthew 16:22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. Matthew 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Today there are men that are "untouchable" by many in the church. If there name is even associated with error the one pointing it out is called "unloving, judgemental, or holier than thou". No wonder Satan has free reign in this world. Where are the watchmen?

If a book or gospel is not a part of the 66 books in the bible then it is neither one of the gospels nor is it the innerant word of God. For instance a bible commentary,website or book may contain truth but it is not scripture.

Isaiah 38:17 Behold, for peace I had great bitterness: but thou hast in love to my soul delivered it from the pit of corruption: for thou hast cast all my sins behind thy back.

Ecumenism leads to Universalism and in my opinion is setting up the world for the coming one world religion of the anti-christ.

1 John 5:13-15 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him. Knowing that we have eternal life and that God hears me us is a great comfort.

Good points. I call anyone who believes the gospel a brother or sister if they believe the basic tenants of the Christian faith too. I am not a Charismatic or a Pentecostal but I believe most of them are my brothers and sisters in Christ. I am not a Roman Catholic (I am an ex-Catholic) but I believe it is possible for a Catholic to be saved in spite of their churches false teachings. I will not evangelize with Roman Catholics because Rome has "another gospel which is not another". Rome has added a long list of laws to be saved and for me to put these teachings aside for the sake of unity would be wrong. I will not witness nor fellowship with Mormon's or many other groups that claim to be Christian. Being a member of a particular denomination will certainly not save us. I don't care if a person is a Baptist, a Luthern or goes to a Calvary Chapel if they don't believe the pure undefiled gospel they are not saved.

Good advice Tah!

We need to get to what the true gospel is. Adding sacraments or man made laws to the gospel will not save us only the pure undefiled gospel will. For instance this infamous pope added to the gospel. Contrast this with the true gospel. Notice that being subject to the tyrant of Rome is not part of what saves us. 1Corinthians 15:1-4 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: Does anyone see the Pope's name mentioned in the following verses? Acts 4:10-12 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the NAME OF JESUS, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, [even] by him doth this man stand here before you whole. 11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. 12 NEITHER IS THERE SALVATION IN ANY OTHER: FOR THERE IS NONE OTHER NAME UNDER HEAVEN GIVEN AMONG MEN, WHEREBY WE MUST BE SAVED. Should bible believing Christians unite in sharing the gospel with those who promote "another gospel" which is not another?

One reason many people think Christians and Muslims have the same God is due to people admiring and puting too much credence in personalities at the expense of clearly taught doctrinal principles in the bible.

John 3:35-36 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. 1 John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. 1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Galatians 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. Galatians 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. All the Jewish believers did was add "keeping the law" of Moses to the gospel and by doing that corrupted it making it "another gospel". If adding the law which God gave Moses on the mountain can place a person under a curse what will man-made laws being added to the gospel do to it? These Jews believed that Jesus died on the cross for our sins and that He was buried and rose again from the dead. They added to the gospel and made it another. See Acts 15. Acts 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. Adding the law, sacraments, works, circumscision or anything other than grace to the gospel perverts it and corrupts it and places those who promote or preach such a thing under God's curse. There is a movement in the church today to "join hands" with cults and organizations to bring the world to Christ. This movement is called the "ecumenical movement". There are many aspects to this movement and it takes many different forms and shapes. The movement promotes putting aside doctrinal differences and beliefs and getting together for the purpose of creating a united front for peace and unity. Within "Christendom" this movement means winning the world over to Christ without regard to doctrine. It is a movement in which so called Christian religions share Christ with a unified front even if they cannot agree on exactly what the gospel is. I maintain that this movement is not of God but from the flesh and the Devil. I believe that true gospel believeing Christians who place the scriptures above the world should shun this movement and speak against it and those who promote it. Should those who believe the Gospel of grace given to us by Jesus Christ unite with those who have added to the gospel? What do you think?

I read these words to my mother just before she passed from her earthly tent to be with Christ. Romans 8:38-39 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. I am always personally comforted by these scriptures. Philippians 1:20 According to my earnest expectation and my hope, that in nothing I shall be ashamed, but that with all boldness, as always, so now also Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether it be by life, or by death. Philippians 1:21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. 2 Timothy 1:8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; 2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, 2 Timothy 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

Tess, I am only posting what I think is necessary to bring to light these issues. The links provided must be read and evaluated in the light of the scriptures. I do not always agree with everything posted. The bible is the only thing I trust 100%. I commend you for wishing to defend those who may be wrongly accused I sincerely mean that. In Christ, Robert

If these events and quotes were not public knowledge I would have a real issue with posting them. I personally heard Paul Crouch curse those who contend for sound doctrine and you can too. There are video tapes that can be purchased that have Paul cursing his audience. No man is above correction or above inspection. If you would like I will email you a link where you can purchase a tape with footage from TBN and you can hear it for yourself along with the parade of men who are in error. Men who preach that we are "little god's" and that we should all be rich if our faith wasn't so weak. The apostle Peter wasn't above rebuke why is any man? The whole crux of this thread is that TBN and it's ministry can get away with anything because no one will stand up to Paul Crouch for fear of losing the millions of viewers that they can reach world wide. I believe this is important. The way of truth is being spoken evil of just as the bible predicted. 2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2 Peter 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. 2 Peter 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

Jack Hayford openly praises TBN and Paul and Jan Crouch. That is a fact. I have personally heard him do so numerous times. Why is Paul Crouch a member "in good standing" if Jack Hayford has an issue with the methods used by TBN to con money from his sincere but deceived viewers? This is the cancer that is rotting the church from within. The sound of silence from the church is deafening. Paul Crouch is the one who publically curses those who contend for sound doctrine. Where is his pastor's rebuke? The apostle Paul publically rebuked Peter. Where is the love in allowing a person to remain in error? Has Paul Crouch repented of the sin of cursing those who want to remain true to the scriptures? Paul Crouch is the one who wants "to shoot heresy hunters if God won't". I stand by my post and my contention.

Good post Smalcald. Paul and Jan Crouch are members of the Jack Hayford's church along the way. He must agree with them. He certainly doesn't correct their error. Pastors should do their jobs and warn their flocks about TBN. I commend the ones that have the courage to do so. Perfect doctrine is not a reason to tolerate a sinful life. Galatians 5:9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. If only a little leaven (sin ,false doctrine etc.) is bad a large amount must be a real stinker.

People that really want to learn and ask questions on why people think about a topic like evolution the way they do don't make provactive statement like the one above. People that want to learn why other people believe the way they do ask the question "why" they don't debate to make their points. That is "selling" something. "wrong on all counts" is not asking why or how come.

Why do we eat when we are just going to get hungry again? Why take a bath we are just going to get dirty again? Why do we wake up in the morning we are just going to get tired again?