redeemed098

I have a very simple definition of truth. The Truth is not a philosophy nor an ideal or an opinion. The Truth is a person. His name is Jesus. He claimed this himself. "I am the Way, the TRUTH and the Life." Based on the truth as revealed by God through his Word. When a person abides in the truth, he doesn't have to say "Prove it" for he knows that, "The righteous shall live by faith." Regards, Ben.

ethical atheist, Noone can tell you about the Holy Spirit because it is not something the unbeliever is able to grasp. Im not insulting your ability to comprehend. Im simply informing you that the Holy Spirit is only something that comes through revelation...The Holy Spirit is the very essence of who God is...You cant know God unless he reveals himself to you...He does this through his Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is promised to those who repent of their sins and are baptised in the name of Jesus. (Acts 2:38) The only way God can impart himself into all believers is by his Spirit, otherwise he would be in one person only.... Listen to what the scriptures say.... The spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the mans spirit within him...? In the same way, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. We have not received the spirit of the world, but the spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom, but in words taught by the spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. (Now listen to this bit) The man without the spirit does not accept the things that come from the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him and he cannot understand them because they are spiritually discerned. (1 Corinthians 2:10-15) You as a man are trying to understand the things of the spirit of God even though you do not have the spirit of God. Because God has not imparted the very essence of who he is into "you" you cannot know him. Though you may try, you cannot know him unless he imparts himself into you....That is why it is written... "Repent and be baptized for the remission of your sins and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." (Acts 2:38) God cannot dwell in a place that is filled with sin. That is why a man must repent and acknowledge the cleansing power of what Jesus did on the cross. God is Holy...and it is written that the kingdom of God is "righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." (Romans 14:17) You see, you as a man have thoughts ea. And no one except you knows those thoughts....Therefore if you do not share those thoughts with anyone, then no one can truly know you..Sure people can think they know you, but how well do they really know you...They do not have your thoughts and they are not you...Just as you do not know their thoughts and you are not them. When God imparts his very spirit into the life of the Believer, the believer is able to know God. In that sense ea, you are capable of having a closer relationship with God than you are with your own mother and father. You dont even know your own mother or fathers thoughts...But God through his spirit witnesses to your spirit the truth of who he is. You can know Gods thoughts. This is not simply a hearing of Gods voice so to speak as it is a prompting or an inner voice or impression upon your spirt. The prompting or inner voice never says anything contrary to the word of God..This is how you discern between truth and lie. That is also why you hear so many people speaking of hearing voices in their heads....Jesus said, "my sheep will know my voice, and the voice of a stranger he will not follow." You cannot follow Jesus as the good shepherd if you dont know his voice.....If you dont have the Holy Spirit, you cannot know the voice of Jesus. It is the Holy Spirit who reminds us of everything Jesus said. Read the gospels...Jesus said, "I must go so the comforter can come..He the spirit will remind you of all I have told you." Jesus was one man who walked the earth, who could only be in one place at the one time...God indwells believers by his spirit. That way the body is the temple of God..He dwells "in" his people now and not in temples made by human hands. Though there are many believers, there is one spirit. The spirit of God. The same spirit is alive in all true believers.....Listen.. However it is written, "no eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him", but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The spirit of God never witnesses anything to a mans spirit that is contrary to Gods Word..That is why Gods Word is the doctrine the believer lives by so as not to deviate from that truth. I began this post by saying that you cannot understand ea even if you wanted to....Yet I still tried in some way to explain it to you a little...I dont expect you to grasp what any of it means, but I thought Id post it anyhow...You may say that you can grasp the gist of it....But without the spirit of God you can only only comprehend according to your own mind which is without the spirit of God. The Spirit of God is heart revelation, not head revelation. It is because you cannot comprehend these things that you fail to understand how God can be the father the son and the holy spirit all in one. If you know one, you know all...Because they all witness the very same spiritual truth. I hope somehow that this post has been worth your while to read...I believe it is a post that glorifies God and speaks correctly of the truths of God. Though this is not even remotely close to scratching the surface of all there is to know...That is why the believer is everyday "growing in the knowledge of the Love of Jesus Christ." Regards, Ben.

Sylvan3, Im not quite sure I understand what you believe..You havent demonstrated through your posts that you dont believe in God. What you "have" demonstrated is that you dont seem to "like" him. That is quite a bit different to "un"belief. Regards, Ben.

The last paragraph acknowledges that contradictions exist in the Bible. The reason that they haven't "cleared" them up is because they haven't yet thought of rationalizations for them. The Bible doesn't change--the rationalizations do. Don't forget, you are touting the Bible as "perfect", not almost perfect. Therefore, even if the Bible contained 99% consistency, which it clearly does not, it still would become fallible with one inconsistency no matter how trivial. Sorry--that's just the definition of fallibility. But who is clearing up these difficulties and discrepancies? Fallable man. So are we really dealling with discrepancies or just the limitations of the human mind? One can make an honest attempt at arriving at the truth, but I will agree that the human mind has its limitations. I think that in the end, it all boils down to if a person truly thinks they are being honest with themself. How can one make an "honest" attempt at arriving at truth when to "be" honest requires already having knowledge of what truth IS...? Regards, Ben.

I don't know what you are quoting but it is not Deuteronomy 22:28,29 28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; 29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days. I have no problem believing these verses are the direct words of God. As for the verses you mentioned, I know there are some similar to them in scripture and have no problem believing God spoke them either. I stand corrected (actually, I sit corrected). The verses were Deuteronomy 20: 10-14. Thanks for calling this to my intention--I think accuracy is important. And so too does God. Regards, Ben.

Its like David said in the Psalms... "I have hidden your word in my heart, that I might not sin against you." There is a difference between "head" knowledge and "heart" knowledge. When I listen to the books of the bible, I am able to hear the heart of the writer as inspired by God, thus I am able to hear the voice of God. When I listen to the unbeliever and his wealth of knowledge, I know I am only listening to his "head". I am listening to how much he has trained himself to remember. Its like Jesus spoke..."What profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul.." When the believer shares the word of God, he is sharing what through revelation from God has taken up residence in his heart. This is not knowledge retained in ones head, but in ones heart. In opportunities to witness to people in real life situations face to face, I have often heard the comment that when quoting scripture to people, it amazes them how these scriptures are retained. Not only that, but when sharing the scriptures, Ive also been told that people can hear my heart more than they can hear my voice. This opportunity is to a certain degree lost over the internet. Face to face people can see into your eyes...It is hard to glean the same heartfelt message with typed words on a computer screen. Im not trivialising the internet at all...I realise though that a face to face encounter is quite a different thing. There are many people who are in here and have even passed through here that would have a wonderful collection of pearls by now. Sadly it is time to wipe the dust from our feet for some. They are being pandered to by our incessant preaching, thus giving them opportunity to wow us with their amazing level of intellectual knowledge. What would offend them most of all would be for us to say no more. Im not at all saying dont converse any longer....Im simply stating that they have heard the message and it is now time to wipe the dust and move on...Realise that there is nothing more you can say and to attempt to do otherwise is simply a reflection of our own pride. Jesus would have wiped the dust off his feet ages ago with some in here. Let them open their bag of pearls once they have stopped trampling them and look at them in their own time. Give them time to look at the pearls....Let them take their eyes off us long enough to look at the message. Let the Word of God do the Work, and stop trying to do it yourself. Its time people to leave the atheist to his knowledge and let him unpack the pearls himself. Regards, Ben.

Point of interest ethical atheist.... Youre right...Jesus would not have used caps, nor would he have yelled at you....For these things I do apologize..You see when sharing the gospel our desire to see someone saved often frustrates us because no one seems to be able to HEAR the message....Because we have this desire, it appears that our pride gets the better of us sometimes if not all the time which results in us feeling the need to tell you the same things over and over again...We think that WE have the ability to convince you and the longer you hang around, the closer you will come to salvation.....This has led me to a great realization ethical atheist....I cannot save you, and I cannot convince you to follow Christ. I do not have this power of salvation...I can only tell you about it. You have already made it quite apparent that you seem to know the teachings of Jesus...This is not all you need to know though ethical atheist...You need to know the Person Jesus. I have realized that my constant badgering of you is really just a reflection of my own pride. I apologise again.. In closing I would like to say to you that the right thing for me to do right now is exactly what Jesus would have done.... You are right, Jesus would not have yelled at you and he would not have used caps to get his point across. He never chased after anyone...By now Jesus would have wiped the dust from his shoes and moved on. Thus, so shall I. It is only my pride that is keeping me here. I should have left a long time before now. You already KNOW the message. What you do with it now is up to you. Ethical atheist, it is not those who question who hold back and fight tyranny.....It is God. God is in control of all things. The greatest tyranny is sin. It's like Jesus said to Pilate when Pilate made the statement..."Do you not realise that I have the power to decide whether you live or die..??" Jesus responded, "If it were not granted to you from above, you could do nothing." You may not realize this, but it is not those who question who provide freedom to worship and it is not those who question that prevent tyranny.......If it were not granted to you from above, you could do nothing. It is in him that we live, it is in him that we move and it is in him that we have our being. Man lives under the illusion that HE is in control. God is in control...Of everything. He is the creator of the heavens and the earth and all that is in them. Of course if you dont believe in the foundation, then it makes perfect sense that you wont believe in everything that has been built on top of it. I dont know how else to share Christ with you without trying in some way to manipulate you to believe, so with this knowledge that I cannot convince you I leave you to your philosophies and intellect....I wont say anything to you as corny as I will pray for you either.....I just hope that one day you will come to a knowledge of Gods salvation through Jesus Christ..... With respect and humble apologies to you ethical atheist and all other atheists on this board, Regards, Ben.

I am using the bible as an example of a moral absolute. I wish you would discuss with me rather than making excuses. Man.. just read the verses I gave. They are examples of God condoning killing. Go on... I'll wait. What are you talking about? I think you have missed something. I have never said that there is no God. I am agnostic. I am unsure of the existence of God. Please don't assume things about people... It isn't nice. Hey... I am interested in Truth too. If you don't see that your statement carries exactly the same weight as mine, I suggest you discontinue any discussion of ethics with me and stop reading my posts. I fear there is no way to relate to you. There is not reason to get so excited. If you are trying to convince me that i should listen to what you have to say, the caps lock isn't helping. I would not question God, but I do question material presented to me by man which is supposed to be the word of God. If God had a chat with me, I promise that I would be all ears. So who are you to judge me? I would, but it so hard to think about hard line commands without any evidence or backup. If you want to capture your audience, my friend, you must first understand them. Without that, you will only anger them and drive them farther away from this "Truth." Two points...You call yourself "ethical atheist". Please excuse me for thinking that you do not believe in God. Most atheists dont..You might consider changing your name to ethical agnostic. No one assumes an atheist is an agnostic. The next point...You cannot drive anyone further from the truth...The truth is that we are all sinners. To hear this might anger you, but that is a good thing...You see the revelation that we are sinners is not something that can be received with politeness and gentleness. There is no kind way to tell a person that he is dead to God in his sins and transgressions.....If anyone is telling you a gospel message that you like the sound of EA, then Im terribly sorry, the message you are hearing is NOT the message of the gospel of Christ. You may feel offence and you may feel as though you are being judged EA, but this is the response from someone who doesnt want to believe he IS a sinner in need of salvation. This is the response of a person who believes he is a good enough person withOUT God. He lacks the intellectual integrity to apply the same standards to his own belief system that he applies to anothers. I have no qualms with people believing my faith is futile. I'm with Paul on that one. My faith has been totally futile if Christ has not been raised from death. I am willing to admit the total futility of my faith if in fact there IS no God. Im yet to meet an atheist who will offer the same level of integrity and admit to the total futility of his atheism if in fact there IS. Finally EA, the purpose of these boards are not to attract people and feed them some nice medicine. It is to share the message of the gospel of Christ and the good news of Gods salvation. If I was to share anything LESS than truth with you, I would be doing you a great injustice and would be clearly demonstrating that the Love of Christ is not in me. Im not afraid of what you might think of ME EA....Im not interested in being your friend.....Im interested in being your BROTHER. God does not murder either EA....He might kill, but he does not murder...If God kills it is justified. Murder is UNjustifiable killing. Picture a doctor performing surgery on a man riddled with cancer throughout his entire body...Should the doctor leave some of the cancer there so it can grow back again...?? Or should he remove ALL of it....?? God removes what needs to be removed....Evil begets evil EA.......God is focused on ridding the world of evil.......Evil is NOT what man determines it to be EA....Evil is the consequence of rebellion to God. Where you see evil, you will see rebellion toward God....Toward what....?? Toward Gods standard of what it is to be Holy. Toward Gods standard of what it is to be righteous.....The man who believes he is too "good" to be damned EA, usually justifies his own actions by condemning God. By that I mean calling "Good" that which God calls Evil. God is perfectly right in all of his decisionmaking EA...Regardless of what anyone thinks. What ever happens to a person and wherever a person spends eternity will be perfectly RIGHT. Noone can discuss with you the issue of sin EA...You have to receive revelation..Until you do, trying to accuse one of pushing one further from truth is just a shallow excuse for feeling offense. Dont get angry...Repent...Be baptised in the name of Jesus for the remission of your sins and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. You will receive eyes to see and ears to hear. This is the only scripture I have shared with you EA as it is the most powerful and Truthful way to reveal to you your current spiritual state of being in the sight of God. A sinner in need of the saviour. You cannot be any further Lost to God than LOST...One is either walking in Truth or he is not. There are no half truths, there is no kingdom of grey...There are only two kingdoms...The kingdom of Light, and the kingdom of darkness.....EA....Right now this very instant, regardless of what you might think or believe, you are already serving one of these two kingdoms...And from all I have seen from your posts, it is not the kingdom of Light. Youre just another one of those people who think that you are too good to be damned. You place your own goodness ahead of Gods, and thus make yourself the standard. Im not assuming either EA....That is not something that you are able to grasp. Im not judging you...Im telling you the Truth. You need to look at Gods standard and judge yourself. Start asking yourself the real questions.... "Am I really a sinner who is lost to God..??" "Am I really a "good" person..??" "What is the standard of what it truly is to be good..??" "Have I really fallen short of that standard...??" "Are the wages of sin death...??" "Did Jesus really die for those sins..??" "Why would he do that for me...??" "Why would I not want to receive Gods forgiveness...??" "Am I too proud to admit that Im a sinner...??" "Will not believing in Jesus and what he accomplished alter the Truth of what he did...??" Just a few questions to ponder EA......If I have to EA, Ill shout it from the rooftops, but you will never be left guessing with me. I refuse to share anything LESS than Truth with you. If that is what you want, then I would have to say nothing to you or lie. Outside of the word of God I have nothing to offer you except for my own intellect EA, and that certainly does not have the power to save you. Only Christ does. That is why Paul spoke these words... "I speak not to you with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power." If you want me to put on airs and graces with you EA, I wont do it...Not because Im proud or arrogant, and not because Im self righteous...I am neither of those things.... But because I refuse to compromise Truth. One step of compromise leads to two...Im not here to make you feel good EA. Im here to tell you the Truth of Jesus and what he did for you...Though you may be ignorant to these things right now, Im certain that one day you will be saved...God would not have brought you here otherwise. This is just another step in your journey toward him...Even if you cannot see this. Regards, Ben.

Point 1: I, as the most prominent ethical theorists would agree, think that every person has an obligation to evaluate every situation that they are presented with themselves. Due to a change of circumstances, simple rules must be reevaluated. Justification of Point 1: This is for the reason of combating the failings of moral absolutes. General rules like, "Thou shalt not steal," work in almost all circumstances. Sometimes, as has been noted, you have a moral obligation to break these rules. Even God breaks his own commandments (thou shalt not kill) by ordering murder (Deuteronomy 17:12, Leviticus 20:27, Deuteronomy 13:7-12, Zechariah 13:3, etc.). Even Jesus breaks a rule of God's (Leviticus 20:10) by letting a woman who commits adultery live (John 8:9). Point 2: We do not need rules to know the difference between right and wrong. Justification of Point2. The capability to understand the difference between right and wrong is something that all sane individuals possess regardless of their religion or background. (see Insanity) Our capability to understand and apply our understanding to a situation defines us as "good" or "bad" people. Many people who commit murder quote bible verses as justification. When there is a conflict between two moral "absolutes" which one is "right?" ethical atheist, .......I will not listen to you any longer for one basic reason.... You are an atheist and you are using the word of God which you do not believe to BE the word of God as your attempt to justify your premise...You have severely brought yourself undone by doing this. You cannot use what you do NOT believe in as justification for NOT BELIEVING......Can you not see how totally futile and stupid that is....? How can you make claims of what God has said or done when you dont even believe he exists..??.. How dare you claim that God murders.... Point to take note of ethical atheist....When God kills, it is justified....it is not murder....Murder is UNjustifiable killing. God does not care whether YOU think it is justified or not..The Unrepentant sinner think its ok to do everything that God has said NOT to do. Of Course you will try to condemn God by justifying yourself...That is what an unrepentant sinner DOES. Do not again use the word of God to usurp the authority of God by demonstrating that you even have a clue as to what it says. You cannot use as your evidence for unbelief that which you do NOT believe in. How dare you say theres no God and then back it up by using his Word against him....who do you think you are....???? God...?? I am Totally sick and tired of watching people spit on the God who gave them life and disguising their motives and intents as honourable and ethical.... I've Had enough......!! Ive had enough in particular of people who do not believe the bible is the word of God, using it as evidence that its NOT. And Ive had enough of people pretending.....Dont hide your motive.....I dont...I'm here to tell you about Jesus and him crucified...That is all...Your salvation is all that matters. Im not interested in your philosophical pretenses and ideologies. Im interested in uncompromised Truth. And above all else, never forget this.....YOU do not judge the Word of God....IT will judge YOU. It is the very standard by which YOUR life will be measured. You do NOT test the bible against another standard....The bible IS the standard by which all things are tested. Your conscience doesnt determine between what is right and wrong. Your conscience merely commends you or convicts you in your decision making processes..Those decisions are still made according to a standard. Your conscience is therefore correct when your conscience commends you or convicts you in line with the Truth of Gods Word. Paul himself believed it was OK to persecute the followers of Christ....His conscience told him this was an acceptable thing to do...Was his conscience right in commending his decision to persecute..??.....No it was not....His conscience was seered...He could not make decisions according to the truth of Gods Word because he was still blind to it. His eyes had to be opened before he could see the error of his ways.....When he received his revelation of Christ on the road to Damascus everything changed. His conscience was now being led by the Truth of Gods Word. He was being commended or convicted in his decisionmaking with the Word of God AS the standard of what is morally right and morally wrong. Until YOUR eyes are opened EA, your decisionmaking will be led by a seered conscience also. When all is said and done EA, the Lord is the final examiner. No philosophy or ideology will alter a thing. The Truth will reveal ALL. Not mans truth...Gods Truth. You are unable to redraw new boundary lines EA....They have already been drawn FOR you. Even attempting to move them a little is futile...God does not change...His standard for judgement does not change either...How could he possibly judge anyone if they have no idea what the standard IS...???? He is a perfectly righteous and Just God...His justice is perfect. Every decision he makes is perfect. Therefore his judgement of YOU will be perfectly RIGHT...According to HIS standard, not yours. He has written his laws on our hearts and on our minds, and he has placed eternity in the heart of every man. That is why we think beyond this life in the first place. Think about these things. Regards, Ben.

You seem to be very derogatory and dismissive when you talk to unbelievers or about atheism, is that attitude allowed here towards christians by atheists? BTW, what is a "self-concocted" atheist? Is it the same thing as a self-concocted christian? Yes. Please listen. Yet to all who received him, those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God. Children born NOT of natural descent (You are not born a Child of God), NOR of human decision (You do not choose to BECOME a child of God), OR a husbands will (you cannot be CONVINCED to become a child of God). You are ADOPTED into the family of God. God adopts YOU....You do not adopt God. God accepts YOU....You do NOT accept God. God accepts you through Christ. A self concocted atheist or Christian is a person who has decided to Live their life a certain way. Those who are atheist do not believe there is a God, and therefore live their lives as though there IS no God. Those who profess to be Christian arent neccessarily Christian at all. They can be followers of religion, living only according to the rules and traditions of men. They practice and follow a false religion. They are headed toward a counterfeit cross. Their is no relationship with God, there is NO repentance and there is no revelation of the depth of their own sins and the outright mercy and grace that God has chosen to pour out upon them. There is no revelation that without Christ there really is no hope at all. All that awaits the unrepentant man is the fullness of Gods wrath. The bible tells us that when the testing times come and the enticement of the things of the world make their way into mens hearts as idols, those who are false converts will fall away. True persecution will be the only telling factor in the revelation of the REAL sons of God. They are those who are led by the spirit of God, and NOT by men. They are NOT those who "hold to the FORM of religion, yet deny the power." They are those who WAIT upon the Lord and worship him in Spirit and in Truth. They are not simply those who have their names on a church membership roll. All of creation yearns and waits for the revelation of the sons of God. God knows those who are his. And those who are HIS know HIM. "For those who are led by the Spirit of God shall be called sons of God." You cannot be a self concocted Christian. You dont choose God.....God chose YOU. Faith is the gift from God..HE gave it or you simply dont have it at all. You can answer an altar call and even claim to accept Christ and it is possible that NOTHING will ever change in your life.....You must REPENT, and be baptised in the name of Jesus for the remission of your sins and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:38) Without the Holy Spirit it is impossible to be a follower of Christ. Growing in Christ is about a relationship. You can confess Jesus all you like, however if you are not living in a relationship with him and growing every day in the knowledge of the Love of Christ then you are not a Christian. Im not talking about luvy dovey sickly sweet love either. Im talking about the realisation that Christs ultimate demonstration of Love toward man was in his journey to the cross for our sins. Complete, Total and selfLESS sacrifice for those who would condemn him and hate him. True Love is selfLESS...It seeks the wellbeing of others NOT self. Jesus thus became the standard of what True selfless Love is all about. True love sacrifices ALL for NOTHING in return. Love is a word used very loosely these days...If you want to see the true meaning of Love, then look to the cross. Jesus didnt run around telling everyone that he loved them....He didnt tell them to accept him. He spoke some very important words..... "Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand." He also said this..."Unless a man repents, he shall perish." God accepts YOU.....YOU dont accept God. And God ONLY accepts you through the self sacrificing work of the Cross. Not some stupid altar call. Regards, Ben.

No one really knows that for sure. The best we can do is trust the reason and logic we've got to make good decisions. I have several illustrations ready to explain where absolute morality fails, but it seems that the problem is the redefinition of morality as law. A law doesn't have to be moral. For example, in the country I live in, we drive on the right side of the road. It wouldn't really matter if it was the left. We just have to all agree on a side. A moral issue does not have to apply to law. For example, it may be seen as immoral to smoke in private, since it destroys your body and there are others who rely on you for their wellbeing. The law should not limit this freedom though, since our body is our own to make decisions about. Saying that a thief did not act immorally does not save him from the law. ...but the law is not about punishment. When a law is broken, that means that there is something wrong with the structure of society. Most often, the wrong is the individual involved, but sometimes, like the thief example, the structure of society is the one to blame. If we had the time and resources, the legal system should only be about rehabilitation of the individual and the society. I'm sure most would agree that it is far better to help someone to become a beneficial part of society than to just punish them. Seeking punishment as a form of revenge is childish. Vengeance is mine says the Lord, I will repay, again I say I will repay. Does this make God childish...Or Just..? The problem with this discussion is that it has been once again set up from a false premise....Underneath it all it is an attempt to condemn God by justifying the actions of sin. You are creating and fabricating hypothetical and moulded circumstances to try to justify wrongful actions. You have completely missed the whole point of Gods Justice....You cannot try to justify the Laws that have already been broken. This is not opportunity to to hypothesise.....or justify by examples fabricated to suit your argument....This is not a what IF....This is not a circumstance that you NEED to fabricate for you are LIVING it right NOW.... There is nothing you can hypothesise about Gods judgement. You are simply doing exactly what the pharisees were doing to Jesus. Trying to trap him by way of argument...He said, "go, and sin no more." He didnt elaborate for them on what sin was..They already knew. As gentiles who do not believe, YOU are shown what sin is through the Laws of God.....This is not done for your attempts to try to justify it.....It is done to show you the need to repent.....The need for the saviour to set you free from the penalty of sin. Using examples of husbands speeding pregnant wives to hospital doesnt justify the offense. Nor does a penniless man stealing to feed his children. It was not Gods intent for there to be any poor people. If Gods laws had been acknowledged and used for the very purpose they were implemented, there would be NO poor people at all. No famine, no pestilence, no drought. The word of God tells us all that the lying pen of the scribes has handled the Law falsely..... The purpose of the Laws of God were for the protection and nurturing of Life. When these laws are handled falsely, then the pupose for which the Law was set up in the first place is completely nullified. When you step outside of the boundary line, you have left the playing field. You have become a law unto yourself. The speeding husband KNOWS that he broke the Law and the hungry father KNOWS that HE broke the Law. When they did so, they put aside all legal restraint and stepped outside the law. Of which they KNEW there were consequences. Your trying to justify THEIR actions hypothetically is simply trying to place yourself in the same circumstance and telling us how YOU would like to be judged. Welll let me give you a hypothetical answer..... I am a father of three, but I was once a father of six....You see one day while we were out on a family drive, some maniac lost control of his speeding car whilst attempting to get his pregnant wife to the hospital, and in the process. Though we didnt collide, in my attempt to avoid collision I swerved onto the other side of the road mounted an embankment and hit a tree killing my wife and three of our children. There are no hypotheticals allowed once the law has already been broken. This is simply an attempt to justify.......You cannot bargain with sin....You cannot bargain with God either.. His forgiveness has been given one and one way only....Jesus. This is not a circumstance that COULD happen, this is a circumstance that DID happen....Its not a possibility that you are a sinner destined for judgement by God. It is a promise by God...."For ALL have sinned" "God has set aside a day whereby he will judge all men by the man he has appointed. He has given evidence of this by raising him from the dead." "It is appointed for every man to die once and then the judgement." You can only be justified by Jesus.....Stop trying to create hypotheticals in order to Trap people and justify sin...This is not a hypothetical circumstance you are living in...It is reality. "The wages of sin is death, but the gift from God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord." How will you justify neglecting such a great salvation, having heard. You cannot trap God, nor can you trick the followers of God with clever fabricated circumstance. None of these things will help you. Eve blamed the serpent for deceiving her.....Adam tried to blame God because he was the one who gave him Eve in the first place. Were any of THEIR arguments convincing to God....? What kind of what ifs did Adam and Eve offer God to justify their action.....? And what was the end result of it all....?? Were they allowed to stay in the garden....NO...!!! Sin has consequences. God is perfectly Just. How trustworthy and reliable would God be if he didnt keep his word. You know the fall came about simply because God IS faithful to his word. He left us with no doubt that he is serious and that he will NOT be compromised......You might like to think that you could justify your sins, but God has set his standard in place and has already shown through the example of his word that with sin comes consequence. He is interested in Perfect Justice and nothing Less. That is why he will not be mocked...Men who mock him now are only fooling themselves. Please stop trying to find ways to call "good" that which is evil in the sight of God. Ultimately the Lord is the Final Examiner. According to his Word, there is no SELF justification for any man. Only Jesus justifies because only Jesus provided a pleasing offering to God FOR us. Our own offering is as that of Cain. Unacceptable. "Without Faith it is impossible to please God, for those who seek him must believe that he IS and is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him." "Man does not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." You were created not just with the desire to eat and drink food and water. We were created with a spiritual hunger also.. That is why Jesus alluded to something more than bread that fills the stomach. The bread that fills your stomach doesnt lead to eternal life...It only leads to a few temporary years. The word of God leads to eternal life. Do you want to know why it is that you even THINK about eternity....? Ecclesiastes will answer that for you..."For God has set eternity in the hearts of ALL men, yet they cannot fathom what God has done from beginning to end." The only reason you even wonder what happens after you die is because God has set eternity in your heart. He has given you the realisation that the death of the body is not the end. If you want to hear God speak, pick up a bible open it and read it aloud.......You will hear God speak through YOU. If you are an UNbeliever, then praise God, for he just spoke through the mouth of man who doesnt even believe he exists. "Your Word is a lamp to my feet and light to my path. How I love your word." "God has exalted above all things, his Word and his Name." Dont trivialise it with what ifs..... Regards, Ben.

For myself, I would say that these are promises made; not an automatic adherence to a moral absolute, and that for individual doctors or practitioners, there may be times when, were it not for the legally binding constraints of these promises, they might feel that morality lay in breaking them in certain circumstances. Here's an example of a dangerous moral absolute: Stealing is always wrong. It can never be justified; all thieves are evil. Then consider a man who is caught stealing food because he does not earn enough money to feed his children. Because of the way in which his society works - by heirachy or within a caste structure - there is no room for him to advance to a better-paying position. He has no recourse for appeal to any higher authority to give him money, or a job, or to help his family. So the man steals food for his children. He is caught. Under a law of moral absolutism, there would be no leeway to take into account why or what he stole, or what circumstances might have explained his actions. He is deemed evil, and will be punished the same as, for instance, someone well able to look after themselves in society but who chooses to steal for the fun of it. To me, this is a perfect example of why moral absolutism does not and cannot work: because it assumes that the act or crime itself is always motivated by the same underlying cause - evil - with no regard to specifics. Secondeve, That is the whole point...When man is a sinner, NOTHING works......You can fabricate as many situations as you like and hypothesise over as many examples that come to mind. Noone is saying that it does or does not work. Clearly Jesus challenged his own people with the situation of the adulterous woman. The legally right thing to do would have been for the woman and man to be stoned to death, the first stone being thrown by the one who caught them as witness to the act. Jesus said to them, "let he who is without sin cast the first stone." There are two issues here...Law and motive. Jesus convicted them all of their own sins and so they all went away one by one. Then he told the woman that everyone had gone and there was no one left to condemn her, and that neither would HE condemn her. YET he still acknowledged her sinfulness and told her to go away and sin NO MORE. The acknowledgement of sin was still there...The whole purpose of that situation from the beginning was an attempt to trap Jesus in issues of the Law. Their intent was not so much the punishment of the adulterous woman...It was to trap Jesus. It is still morally absolute however that adultery is adultery. There is no justification for adultery....Just as there is no justification for stealing. Read the bible on the issues of stealing and lying and adultery etc, and stop saying things like, "For myself" and "I would say." Start to listen to what God says. The rich man who denies this mans rightful wages for the work he provides is in great danger too...Listen to this.. "Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming upon you. Your wealth has rotted and moths have eaten your clothes. Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. Look..!!! The wages you failed to pay the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. You have lived on earth in Luxury and self indulgence. You have fatttened YOURSELVES in the days of slaughter. You have condemned and murdered innocent men who were not opposing you." (James 5:1,6) Gods absolutes are well aware of motive secondeve......God knows a mans heart. David when hungry ate bread from the temple....Did he steal....??? What would God say...? Once again secondeve, just as man thinks he can determine what evil is, he also thinks he can trick God by creating a situation that will undermine his intended purpose. By handing us the example of the man who NEEDED to steal, you have just done what the Israelites did to Jesus when they confronted him with the adulterous woman. How did Jesus settle it......????? by revealing that ALL are sinners. Noone is any better than anyone else, for all have fallen short. The law doesnt contain within itself the power to stop a man from breaking it....It is absolutely wrong to steal...Clearly God would not say, "You shall not steal" if stealing were not wrong. Absolutely wrong... It cannot be right for some and not right for others.....Its not Gods desire for a man to go hungry either, yet clearly he does....This is not due to a flaw in Gods absolute Laws...This is due to the sinful nature of man. It wouldnt matter if every man in the world had an equal distribution of wealth. There would still be those who covet and want more...There would still be those who would steal someone elses share....People would still kill each other to take what is not theirs. Its not the laws that are flawed....Everything about God is perfectly right. He is perfectly Just, perfectly loving, perfectly forgiving and perfectly merciful. Man might think he can alter or change Gods Laws, he might even think he can do away with them altogether. But the day of Judgement will bring with it the knowledge that Gods Laws never really went away at all. Man just pushed them to the side in favour of his own. There is nothing dangerous about an absolute standard at all....Not when God is the judge. You can be absolutely certain that Gods justice will be perfectly right. "Far be it for the God of all creation to do anything wrong." Regards, Ben.

What makes atheists "scary", is that they think they are "good people." Even if you do good works, this does not make you a good person. Most good works are done for the benefit of self acknowledgement....The motive isnt even right to begin with. You want to be seen as a good person by all around you because basically you know that you are NOT..!! Therefore the need to be seen and recognised by others as good. The moral standard an atheist lives by is not a set, solid and absolute standard at all...It is as changeable as the weather. We can see this all around us by the attempts to undermine moral absolutes by trying to change them....What was once considered immoral is no longer immoral, in fact it has become quite acceptable.... The atheist therefore is not holding to or adhering to a moral standard, he is fact constructing one...He is fabricating and moulding his own standard to suit his sins. Gods standard is UNchangeable and there is NO compromise with God. Like it or not. The Christian does not claim to be any more righteous than the atheist, he cannot claim to be righteous at all because he knows that he is NOT. Both the atheist and the Christian sin....The difference is that the Christian KNOWS that it is sin and struggles to walk upright and blameless before God. The atheist doesnt even acknowledge his sinfulness and will even point to the sins of the Christian in order to justify his own actions, forgetting for the moment of course that if there is no God, there is no sin. He seizes the opportunity to persecute on the basis of a sin he doesnt even believe exists. He in effect nullifies his own argument. YES, a Christian sins, and struggles with sin because sin DOES exist.... The whole point of this is to demonstrate to both the Christian AND the atheist that the same moral code which the atheist denies in the first place is the very same moral code that Christians struggle to live by even knowing the grace and mercy of God. Thus putting an end to the argument and bringing the Truth of Gods Word into the Light. Acceptance from God is only found in Christ. The bible even goes so far as to teach us that those who are NOT born again are in fact dead to God in their sins and transgressions. That is why a man must be Born Again. He is spiritually dead to God. Jesus tells us that those who place their faith in HIM, have passed from death to Life. Gods message to those who are NOT in Christ is simple. "The wages of sin is death." The good news...!!! "But the gift from God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord." If you have committed the crime then you must take the penalty handed down to you. God is a God of perfect justice...Something no one has even seen....No one has seen perfect justice..But God will. "For there is none who are good, no not one. All have fallen short of the glory of God." That is why Jesus came...And that is why we need him.....If HE is not your saviour then you dont have one...If he is not your Lord, then somebody else IS. "My people have all gone astray. There is none who seek me....." "The wicked through the pride of their countenance do not seek God. There is no room in all of their thoughts for God." We all need the saviour....The atheist just hasnt received that revelation yet. So he is comfortable constructing his own moral code whilst ignorant to God. I do not use the word ignorant as an insult either. Paul himself confessed to living in ignorance and unbelief before the Lord Jesus poured out his mercy and grace upon him. When Paul received revelation from the Lord Jesus on the road to Damascus, his life was turned around. The very people he was responsible for persecuting even to the point of death, he was now willing to die for. His persecution of the Lords followers ceased when he realised that to persecute THEM was to persecute Christ himself. I find it incredibly interesting that the very message the atheist or unbeliever of any kind finds offensive is really the message that has the power to set him free. Jesus came for the sinner. The Truth of the message of Christ and the message of repentance may not be easy to listen to, as there is no kind way to tell a man that he is a sinner who needs Gods salvation. But the irony is that this very same message is the one that will lead them to salvation. A man resists for all he is worth the only message that has the power to save him....!! Amazing isnt it...!! Regards, Ben.

I am in total agreement in this case. Better open rebuke than hidden Love... What good is Love if it is hidden...?? What good is Truth if it is ignored...??? How much are you truly demonstrating Love by saying nothing...?? Paul himself said that he was sorry for the hurt that people felt initially when he chastised them, but was glad when he saw that this chastisement led them to Godly repentance. He didnt like hurting people, but he knew it had to be done. He would not have been acting in Love if he had just ignored these issues. Regards, Ben.

Christian, I think its also worth mentioning that Jesus suffering was not just limited to the physical abuse of the flogging and the crucifixion. Nor was it confined to the hours he spent upon the cross. The Word of God clearly tells us that he was the Lamb who was slain since BEFORE the beginning of the World. He may have gone to the cross two thousand years ago, but he knew for the preceding four thousand years that he was headed there. He is also referred to as "The Lamb who was slain" in visions of heaven, shared throughout the Word of God. "And I saw what looked like a lamb who was slain" Jesus will eternally wear the scars that cost him OUR redemption. That is how we will recognise him. We will be healed, but he will always bare the scars of our salvation. I dont think I will ever understand or comprehend what True self sacrificing Love really is. Jesus himself gave us that demonstration and in doing so BECAME the example of what True Love really IS.... "No greater love has any man, than he who would lay down his life for his friend." Jesus did even more than that....He died for those who hated him and condemned him. He made possible forgiveness for all. Our sins nailed him to that cross, so we must all be aware that it was just as much our own hand that pounded those nails in, and just as much our own hand that flogged him mercilessly. How can one who was treated so mercilessly be filled with so much compassion and mercy toward those who would do such a thing.....If anyone is able to comprehend this, youre one up on me. Regards, Ben.

What do you say, though, about His claim to be the Son of God, EA? If this God exists, I would claim to be his son too. Seeing as I would then be his "creation" I would be happy to call myself his offspring in order to demonstrate a necessary point. That's all very nice EA, but what about this...!! The message of the gospel is not there for you to learn lessons from the LIFE of Christ.......It is there for you to receive LIFE through the DEATH of Christ. The bible tells us that we are to "Put on the Lord Jesus Christ." We are to apply him to our lives. Just as the Hebrews in the time of Pharoah applied the blood of the passover lamb to the doorposts of their houses. The blood of Christ is no good left UNapplied. Its a lot like a parachute EA.......You can hear about its capacity to save you from the consequences of a jump without one, but believing it will save you is not enough....While its just sitting on the floor its no good to you..You must put it ON. The fact that you questioned, "If this God exists", tells us that this is NOT the case. Though your interest in Christ and the message of the cross will open the door to many opportunities to hear the good news of Christ. I hope God gives you ears to hear. That's the trouble with Truth EA.....If you cannot HEAR it then no one can TELL it to you. That is why I said, "I hope God gives you ears to hear." Only he CAN... Regards, Ben.

The word Atheist itself is a contradiction in terms... An atheist is one who considers himself as one who does not believe in any god and will actually claim to be godLESS... No one is godLESS.....The difference is that you do not see whatever it is that YOU worship, AS religion. Everyone has within them the desire to worship. You dont have to be down on bended knee to be expressing worship. Worship in the sense of the bible is voluntary adoration, expressed by those who have received revelation of Gods goodness and mercy. Whatever has taken the rightful place of God in your life, IS your god. No man is godless....No man is without religion. An idol can be a car, a house, a boat, a relationship, a job or even a philosophy...These are all gods when they have replaced the one true God. The atheist simply has not yet received the revelation of the depth of his own sinfulness and his need for Gods mercy....And he never will so long as he believes that his own moral standard is good enough. According to the bible, the Truth is a person. His name is Jesus. "I am the way the TRUTH and the life, no one comes to the father except by me." Outside of the word of God, there may be perceptions of human morality, but NONE are the Truth. The Truth is UNchangeable. The atheists moral code will change to suit his sins. He will manufacture his own morals and fashion and mould them to suit his lifestyle of sin. He will do all he can to justify his sins and he will even seek as justification FOR his opinion to highlight the imperfections of those around him whom he considers Worse than himself. The atheist will never show the same intellectual integrity that he expects from those he discusses things with. I am yet to meet an atheist who will profess the total futility of his atheism if in fact there IS a God. Yet that same atheist expects the believer to admit to the total futility of their faith if in fact there is NO God. On that basis alone, equal intellectual integrity would be a good place to start. Jesus said that for a man to enter the kingdom of God, he must be Born Again. He also said that HE is the only way to God. If this is in fact Truth, then no amount of opinion or debate will alter that. You see opinion is an admitting that what you speak is equal to less than Truth. That is what makes it opinion...Jesus said, I tell you the Truth. We are not playing with semantics here....If Jesus really did say these things, then guess what.....???? Theres no such thing as an atheist...Only a man who likes the sound of the word atheist as opposed to unrepentant sinner. Regards, Ben.

Its a sin to be black.....?????? Regards, Ben.

Thank-you John. A very good article. Very passionate and very Truthful. Regards, Ben.

"Seek FIRST the Kingdom of God and his righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you." Did you realise that this is the first commandment Jesus gave when he walked the earth..? This clearly demonstrates that the blessing follows those who seek God FIRST. Oprah may be providing these things but in essence she is making herSELF God as she clearly demonstrates by BECOMING their provider and denying that God IS. She makes HERSELF God by doing this. Could the world live withOUT Oprah...? The answer is clearly YES....Could the World live withOUT God...? The answer is clearly NO. "For it is in HIM that we LIVE and MOVE and HAVE OUR BEING." She ultimately shows by doing these things as the provision or the provider thus denying God HIS position as sovereign provider of ALL. Though this is all done in complete ignorance, she has it all in the wrong order..... Seek FIRST the kingdom of God...FIRST....!!! Shes is not offering them a message of eternal salvation...She is offering a message of temporal comfort in a world permeated by the very sin she denies exists in the first place.... She is trying with her own efforts to clean what is filthy with and already filthy rag....This is not an attack on Oprah as a person...Even Paul admitted once he was saved to having done things in complete ignorance....This is simply standing uncompromisingly upon the Truth of Gods Word. Oprah thinks she can make a difference when it is her very own sins as well that have contributed to the mess she is attempting to clean up with her own filthy rag. That is why she is trying to do good. Because she knows she ISNT....None of us are. No amount of money generates favour with God. Jesus was as pleased with the widow who gave two mites. Those who give out of their abundance are simply trying to boost advertising and publicity with monies that fall off the side of the business. Its called tax dodging... Oprah gets high ratings because we live in a world where there appears to be no hope...Oprah tries to generate a little ray of sunshine and this of course caters to the needs of those who need a little ray of sunshine in their lives. Clearly the reason there are so many viewers is the same reason Coke sells so well....The marketers are well in tune with what the people seek, and know how to market towards it.....Oprah is not about giving money away....Oprah is about MAKING money. The slice she GIVES is NOTHING compared to what she EARNS...It may even be the equivalent to two mites. The only problem with that is that she herself does not confess Jesus as Lord. Nor does she proclaim the gospel of Christ..She even goes so far as to deny it. Oprah is a marketable commodity that has proven to be very popular in her stand on human SELF morality, thus denying the truth of Gods word that clearly states that there is NONE who are good, no not ONE. To claim that YOU can provide peace, is to deny the only one who Truly CAN....Jesus. "My peace I give you. I do not give as the WORLD gives." Jesus gives the father. He and the father promise the Holy Spirit to those who will call upon his name. This is the peace that Jesus speaks of. There will be NO peace until sin has been seperated from righteousness. This will happen when God seperates the sheep from the goats. Until that time there will be NO WORLD PEACE....Only ILLUSIONS of peace. Oprah has simply bought into the ILLUSION. She thinks she can make a difference...She would make more of a difference if she used her position to share the gospel of Christ. How long do you think THAT show would last people.... Oprah has the accolades of men, and it possibly even helps her to sleep better at night knowing she has given something to someone that they never had before..... How much better do you think she might sleep if she knew Christ and had the realisation that her ability to bless people is about eternal purpose and value and not just temporary.. Jesus is the cleanser...Not Oprah...As much as she would like to be, she cannot be. She too is a sinner in need of the saviour. Regards, Ben.

Arent you jealous for YOUR children..? Jealousy is a loving protection over that which is YOURS.....Just as YOU have a loving protection over your children, God has the same loving protection over HIS. Of Course hes a jealous God....Hes a father..Jealousy is a wonderful thing...If you are choosing to look at jealousy as an insecure emotion, you are looking incorrectly at what jealousy IS....If someone is trying to MAKE you jealous, then the insecurity lies with them. If someone on the other hand is possessive in their attempts to hold on to a relationship, then the person they are trying to keep hold of was never theirs in the first place. This is simple manipulation to seek to satisfy SELF. Love is NOT self seeking, Love is putting others first. God put YOU before himself by stepping down off his heavenly throne and coming into the world as a man. Jesus. Just as he provided a sacrifical lamb for Abraham, he also provided one for you and me. People can live withOUT a car, and withOUT a house, but they cant live without Jesus. "He who has the son of God has LIFE, but he who does not have the son of God does NOT have life, and Gods wrath abides upon that man." Oprah may do many good things in the sight of men, and she may be blessed with an abundance to give to others, but how many times has she thanked publicly the God who has blessed her and given all the glory to HIM....? How many times has she told someone about the Love of Christ that brings us to salvation....? What good ultimately has been done when you have fed a hungry mouth with food and water, yet neglected to speak of such a wonderful salvation. They might have received a few more years, but what of their eternity....??? Dont forget what is written in Gods Word...."Our most righteous acts are as filthy rags in the sight of God." Im not worthy of Gods forgiveness, and neither are you..None of us are...There is not one person who has ever lived that is worthy of Gods forgiveness. Thankfully Gods forgiveness is not dependent on how worthy WE are...but how worthy God is. Any man who considers himself MORE worthy of Gods forgiveness than any other man, is acting in total self righteousness. You cant clean ANYTHING with an ALREADY filthy rag...Any attempt to do so only makes the item you are trying to clean, even more filthy.... "We are all as an UNclean thing." And not one of us is able to make ourselves clean in the sight of God. No amount of good works will ever overshadow the sacrifice and offering to God of Jesus for yours and my sin. You cannot hope to please God with your own efforts whilst in denial of the work of the cross of Christ. Even your own acceptance of Christ wont bring you to salvation......You see it is not about YOU accepting Jesus..He never came into the world to tell you to accept him. He said "Repent for the kingdom of God is at hand." To any man who determines himself to be LESS of a sinner than another man, Jesus had these words.... "You think these things happened to these men because they were worse sinners than you...!! I tell you the truth, unless YOU repent, you TOO shall perish." You dont accept Christ.....God accepts YOU through what Christ has done for you...Jesus gave himself as an offering and sacrifice TO God FOR us. God only accepts the offering of his only begotten son. You have nothing to offer...You are a sinner, already tainted, already flawed. Gods forgiveness is only offered through what Christ has done. God has offered forgiveness NO other way. When you reject Christ, your reject Gods forgiveness and remain UNforgiven and condemned. When God looks at you he will either see sin or he will see his Son. No amount of good works will come close to the offering that Christ made for you. To even try is to trample the very blood that was shed for your own salvation. The goodness may be seen by men and even acknowledged by men, but in the sight of God it is as a filthy rag. Besides, why would you even want to spend eternity with the one whose love you chose to deny...? Jesus became through the work of the cross, the true example of what Love IS....Complete and total self sacrifice even for those who hate you. Complete and total forgiveness even in the midst of persecution to the point of death on a cross. Im not calling Oprah evil or bad or even judging her....That is not my place. But the world needs more than a car and a house, and a wardrobe full of designer clothes. The world needs Jesus. The Jesus of the bible. The son of God. The world needs not only to have their hungry bellies filled, but also their empty and hungry spirits. They dont just need temporary food and water that satisfies for only a little while...They need the Living Bread and the living water that leads to ETERNAL LIFE. Sharing food and water without the sharing of the gospel of Christ caters only for a few more years. Jesus is about eternity...he has the words of eternal life. Regards, Ben.

Hey....Guess what.....??? You are right...!!! You are 100% right.....I look at myself in the mirror and I try as hard as I can to see Jesus in ME....You know what...??/ I cannot see Jesus in myself at all.... I look at others and I can see Jesus in THEM, but I cannot for the life of me see Jesus in ME.....I have no idea why God would save such a wretched sinner as myself...NONE...None whatsoever......I am a filthy rotten condemned sinner saved only by the grace of God through Jesus Christ for reasons beyond my understanding....Sure I know what the Word of God says about my salvation and my journey from Justification to glory....Does that make it any more understandable for me..?? No....! Theology Professor, I am a sinner..I am a sinner who though saved, still struggles every day with the power that sin still holds over me. I often do not reflect the person of Christ or manifest the fruits of Gods Holy Spirit, but there is ONE truth I hold valiantly to....The Cross.. Jesus hung on that cross and in the midst of having flesh and nerves severed and struggling to breathe as he constantly tried to support his own weight just so he could breathe, what words did he utter.......???? Did he say, "Condemn them father....Every single last one of them...Filthy rotten sinners the lot of them...Sexually immoral, liars, adulterers, theiving murderers...Spare NOT one of them...Destroy them all....For they hurt me father....They beat me, and kicked me, they flogged me with a whip made from shards of bone and metal. They tore the flesh off my back and laid me down on this cross and drove six inch nails through my body.....Take them out...!!! Pour out your wrath upon them and let them see the consequences of their own actions." Did Jesus say that....????? No he didnt....He said this......."Forgive them father, for they know not what they do." I cannot work that out Theology Professor.....I dont understand why God would save me, nor do I have any real concept of the strange way in which he has chosen to do it... But I will say this to you......I AM a sinner, I do struggle very much to walk as Jesus did and I am guilty often of misrepresenting through my attitude and actions, the very real reflection of what it is to be Christlike...... YET....!!!! Jesus still went to that cross for ME....He went to that cross for YOU to Theology Professor....If you had any real concept of that, you would not just be Titled "Theology Professor", but you would also be professing theology..Proclaiming the gospel......Even Paul received the revelation that to persecute followers of Christ was to persecute Christ himself...We are ALL sinners...Some may have fallen short by more than others, but still ALL have fallen short.....Maybe one day I will understand the Love of God and even be able to comprehend it, but for now I can only see Gods greatest demonstration of his love through Christ and the work of the Cross. We are sinners and we may even be judgemental of others at times Theology Professor. I admit that I can be....We ALL are....We are fallen men. Flawed in our thinking and flawed in our actions....But as believers we are growing in the knowledge of the Love of Christ so that HE can change us... I would like to apologise for any offense you may have felt as this is not the real desire of anyone who professes to be a follower of Christ. A persons salvation is the motive. What I do find sad is that there is no kind way to tell a person theyre a sinner in need of the saviour......If you hear of one please let me know..Jesus said himself that unless a man repents he shall perish. Theres only so many ways you can share this with a person...Jesus said it straight out..."Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand." It is a very hard concept to swallow when you begin to realise that the very message people are rejecting is the message that leads to their salvation. No man can condemn another man as a sinner, for we are all sinners..And no one elses sins will ever excuse our own. Be careful when you speak out against followers of Christ.....For when you do, you speak out against Christ himself. Saul discovered this on the road to Damascus. "Who are you, Lord...?" asked Saul when blinded by the light of Christ. "I am Jesus whom YOU are persecuting," replied Jesus. Saul figured he was only persecuting men....He wasnt...He was persecuting the Lord himself. When he received this revelation, the persecution STOPPED and he began to Preach Christ and Him crucified. I know that all too often the Christian is seen as the follower of an institution of paedophiles who bow down to idols and serve and worship false gods. Some will even liken us to Hitler. This is indeed sad as there is a very big difference between Following God and believing that you ARE God. Id like to point you to a link that might give you a better understanding of what a man like Hitler was really motivated by....If the mods decide to remove the link for whatever purpose or reason, I understand. I simply want to give you a little bit of insight into what Christianity really is, and what Christianity really IS NOT..! http://www.livingwaters.com/columns_ray/ Tread carefully Theology Professor.....and remember.....The Lord is the final examiner. Regards, Ben.

I'd do what Paul would have done.......Hand them over to satan. Let the Holy Spirit convict them of their offensive behaviour...If HE cant do it....No one can. This of course is going on the assumption that one thinks it is Ok to be a follower of Christ AND Homosexual. After all, as unbelievers they do not need to be handed over to satan...Theyre already there. Regards, Ben.

You do realise dont you that according to the bible even the devil fears hell...?? He Trembles at the thought.... Hell is not the devils home people.........It is his PRISON. Remember the demoniac and the cry of the demon spirits....."Do not send us into the abyss before our time..." Even the demons do not want to go to hell..... What exactly do you think youre toying with here....???? A slap on the wrist...?? You will have to live with whatever decision you choose to make regarding the kingdom of Light and the Kingdom of darkness.... No one else will have to live with your decision except you.... "Choose this day, life and blessing or death and curses." God would not have commanded this if it were not important. It is THE single most important decision you will ever have to make in your lifetime. No other decision will determine your eternal destiny. If you are more interested in what WORKS for you than what is Right, be prepared to live with the consequences of that decision. Im not talking about heaven or hell here either....If you make the wrong choice, it would be enough of a hell having to live with that for all eternity. Especially knowing that you had heard the Truth and Ignored it. You might say that the same could be said for ME...And you would be right....I have made my decision and I am prepared for whatever consequences will now follow....I am prepared to be fully accountable for every word I have spoken in relation to the gospel of Christ. I ponder my thoughts quite deeply before I post. I wont say anything that I am not prepared to be fully accountable for...Because the Truth is......I AM accountable...and so too ARE YOU.....!! "It is appointed once for each man to die, and then the judgement." My friends, the bible is not a book put there for you to decide on whether or not it is worthy of your time or attention...It is not there for you to judge it....These are the very words by which YOUR very own life will be measured.....You dont judge IT.......IT will judge YOU...!! Jesus spoke clearly that it is the Word you have not believed that will condemn you.....HE came into the world, NOT to condemn it, but that the world would be saved through HIM.... HE does not condemn you....He came to set you free FROM the condemnation you already stand UNDER......BECAUSE you do NOT believe in Gods only begotten son. "He who HAS the son of God has LIFE, but he who does NOT have the son does NOT have life and Gods wrath abides upon him." Its not a matter of going to trial and being convicted....Youre ALREADY GUILTY....YOURE ALREADY CONDEMNED TO DEATH...."The wages of sin is DEATH." You have sinned. You must cross from DEATH to LIFE....The deception people is that you think you are ALIVE....But you are DEAD to God...Dead in your sins and transgressions.....You need to cross over from death unto life. Jesus showed the way. You MUST be Born Again...."Flesh and blood CANNOT inherit the kingdom of God." You MUST be Redeemed...You do not inherit the kingdom of God as a man. Jesus received a glorified Body before he ascended back into heaven to be with the Father....Jesus said it himself...."God is NOT flesh and Blood." When he spoke to Peter he said, "Flesh and blood has not made this known to you but my Father who is in heaven..." Flesh and blood CANNOT inherit the Kindgom of God..That is why a man must be Born Again of the Spirit..In Thessalonians it states that even those who are still alive at the coming of Christ MUST be CHANGED.....If these were all decisions we could make LATER, we wouldnt need the bible and God neednt have sent his only son to die...There is great significance in this message of the gospel. "It is the power of God unto salvation to them that believe and are saved." But to those who are perishing it is a message of foolishness...."For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing." Do not ignore such a great salvation.. Regards, Ben.

My most humble apologies billie for hijacking the thread. Sorry....I will leave it now so everyone can continue addressing the OP. Couldnt help myself...You know how it is....!! Regards, Ben.