FailedChristian

I am nobody but I sure can tell the difference between good and evil. Problem comes when folks are unwilling to let go of those things that satisfy their fleshly lusts rather than embrace God's goodness. What do you think drove those who had practiced sorcery in Acts 19 to destoy those scrolls that they once held in high regard but came to see the evil in it? Were they wrong? Here they were...repenting of their old ways and turning to a new life in Christ. Simply spoken...the old ways had no place in their new life. Good for you! Well, go ahead and destroy, I'm sure your fellow fascists will support you.

A supposed outpouring of God's Spirit at The Toronto Christian Fellowship. Since which, it has been determined that it was mass-hysteria and a deception. If you want to believe this garbage: http://www.tacf.org/Default.aspx?tabid=147

Not true. The "physical CD" is property and all rights of ownership of the "physical CD" are assumed by the one who bought it. The actual music is "intellectual" property; that is what is retained by the musician and/or record label. I cannot do as I please with the "intellectual" property BUT I can do as I please with the "physical CD". I can skip it onto a lake, use it for decoration or burn it. By destroying a "physical CD", how do I affect the "intellectual" property on that CD? I do not nor can I affect it. I must say, though, it sure would be nice. I think you best doublecheck that...if you destroy the CD, then you have compromised the intellectual property of the CD. Nvertheless, I don't expect that we will see police come storming into the guy's home arresting him as they did in "Brazil" for hiring renegade Duct Repairmen.

Toronto blessing, mass hysteria - dressed up as a profound spiritual experience. Hinn, Creflo Dollar etc bunch of money grabbing charlatans, exploiting the faith of the naive. British satellite TV is full of aweful "Christian channels" pushing out their nonsense. It's shameful and embarrassing. It is sad that there isn't more of an outcry against them, so many people have contempt for Christianity, because they see people of that ilk hamming it up on the so-called "God" channel! These are examples of why Christ spoke against such things while he was still alive in his earthly body. Best to simple dismiss these deceptions and not even mentioon them. With any luck, people will abandon them eventually. Nevertheless, don't underestimate the stupidity of the public.

I said it in my posts. I do not believe in censorship because once I unleash the hounds against THAT stuff, it won't be long before someone can unleash the hounds at my stuff..... Again, who are YOU to judge what the intent of art is? Also, your "studies" that prove that art that depicts sinful acts results in an increase in those acts by consumers of that art is sheer crap. Those studies have been flwaed to a point of laughability...spurious garbage. Under that assessment, I should have quite an appetite for war and killing given the text of the Old Testament...or a penchant for crucifying people with the content of the new Testament. Burn your "evil" art, burn your "evil" books, torch the "evil" CD's and "evil" records..DESTROY IT ALL. Then look at what you've really done... You have done more evil than those articles may have ever done. To destroy something because of its POTENTIAL is ignorant to the nth degree. I have to thank the participants in this thread for moving me closer to leaving the faith altogether. Fascists. Leaving the FAITH? If you empower others in such a way, maybe you have yet to experience God in a dynamic and real way? NOTHING will separate me from the LOVE of God... NOTHING! Not one person here or anywhere went to a sinner's Cross to pay for my sin; but Jesus Christ did and He did when I was still His enemy. Now to speak to your comment. Yes, actually there is Biblical presedence for destroying by fire those things that lead to destruction. Read the Book of Acts about how Peter then Paul spread the Good News throughout hostile lands. When Paul was in Ephesus, "God did extraordinary miracles through Paul." [Acts 19:11]. Many Jews and Greeks who practiced sorcery "brought their scrolls together and burned them publicly. When they calculated the value of the scrolls, the total came to fifty thousand drachmas." [Acts 19:19] In today's dollars, that comes to about $5 million!!!! They burned them because they were junk! Based on your words, you would have called it ART and held onto your scroll. It isn't art; it is junk. They knew it; they burned it. Yes, you can argue that it can be a hard line to draw since we all seem to draw it differently. Some think rock music is evil; I don't. I judge my music not on the genre or the beat but by the message. Regardless, a line must be drawn between evil and good and the ONLY one who can is God as revealed in His Word. Evil is evil and has no place in a Christian's heart. May the Lord Bless you richly, Wayne "a line must be drawn..." ...perfect. You say that God is the One to do that. How? Through you? I guess you will be the one to do that for us? Or is it a Youth Pastor who "hears" from God? Or the Pope? Or your specific translation of the Bible? Or maybe the Wizard of Oz? Or John Hagee? Or Benny Hinn? Or George Bush? WHO? Who in the world do you think you are? Do you think you can discern and disperse theMind of God to others? If not, then I recommend you leave the judging to God and stop advocating destruction.

I'm convinced that non-sequitors are a way of life here. Ok, again, here we go: 1) I serve the Truth...and the One who holds that Truth, God. 2) The holy Spirit is a Counsellor, A Comforter and an Advisor...not a reigious extremist who wants "sacrifices" that include the sheddding of blood or thought. 3) I'm not the one judging...those who believe that certain CD's are "evil" have done that. 4) When a person advocates an action committed by the villains of history (destroying) in order to follow some hyper-religious, legalistic, extreme view, then I call it out into the Light of Reason, The Light of God. 5) The music on the CD's do not BELONG to them, the music belongs to the artist, or have you not been following trhe latest issues about downloaded music? You only buy the rights to the music temporarily. The artist retains all other rights. The Cd company retains all rights to the physical CD. You are licensing the product when you purchase the CD. Read about it. Look it up.

Your comment makes a HUGE leap in logic. If I listen to something that talks about sin, then I am encouraged in sin...right? If that's the case, many sections of the Bible "promote" the details of sin...I guess I should burn my Bible. If my memory serves me right, were you not a worship leader in your church? Why then would you be against such a practice of keeping clear of evil influences in music? Please enlighten us on that score. Ok, another set of non-sequitors to address. First of all, I am not against the practice of keeping clear of evil influences in music. If you don't want "evil influences" in music then don't buy them. I do not support the destruction of art...in any form. Period. I have given my reasons in previous posts. However , if you like the idea of acting like a Nazi to "clean up" the realm of art..groovy. Go for it. I am not comfortable committing actions identical to Mao Tse Tung, Stalin and Hitler. As far as what is an "evil influence": some churches hold that drums evoke too sensual a sound for it be "holy unto God." Other churches complain that not enough songs directly refer to Christ. In that sense, "Amazing Grace" should be considered evil (maybe it is!). Further, many traditional hymns were sourced from Tavern drinking songs. Many bands and artists who originally had songs that "glorified" the secular have rewritten thoise same songs to be "holy" and "Christian" ("Some Kind Of Wonderful" by Grand Funk Railroad, for example). Finally, I'd like to commend you for attacking the messenger in a personal way with your question. Always the last bastion for the unthinking fascist: attack the integrity of the messenger rather than truly address the POINTS made in the posts. Art is supreme, above evil, worthy of preservation? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm Neither you, nor anyone has the right to destroy art or artists. The step from advocating the destruction of art and advocating the destruction of artists is very small. Yes, art and the written word NEED to be protected in order for you to have YOUR art and written word. I don't know if you live in the US, but the US Constitution was written with this very idea in mind: that FREEDOM is the issue that MUST be defended (and I'm Canadian!). That FREEDOM includes expression..that includes art. As vile a some of the stuff is that is produced, you MUST protect it in order to protect yourself. If you disagree, groovy. Just remember that you are denying a fundamental freedom in democracies if you want to seek out all the art and writings that you disagree with in order to "cleanse" your country of evil. I REALLY THINK this is taking it a tad too far. If someone chooses to destro music of which they have bought and feel it was detrimental to their faith and may hurt others' faith as well....then it goes. It's his music, he can choose what he wants to do with it. He's not stealing EVERYONES music from the whole country and throwing it in the fire. Gosh lets all just relax and stick with what the thread is really asking. **I even remember the start of this thread talking about how the member did not want to turn this into a controversy of what is considered "bad" music...I believe this is exactly what has happened....? 1) What "MAY hurt their faith" is EVERYTHING... your statement is a moot statement 2) It is NOT "his music", it is the artist's music..unless you believe that stealing music is ok 3) He is considering destroying..an act most closely aligned to Satan, not God (remember that Satan comes a messenger of light and that we can easily be deceived by the very scriptures we hold to). 4) I'm not discussing his consideration of what is "bad", I'm responding to his question of what to do with the CD's. 5) He should be taking a step back and cooling his thoughts a bit before proceeding..I suggest a month or so...without heavy discussion on the topic. 6) I am not here to offend, simply to offer a chance for himj to think, an act that I find more and more Christians are afraid of.

Your comment makes a HUGE leap in logic. If I listen to something that talks about sin, then I am encouraged in sin...right? If that's the case, many sections of the Bible "promote" the details of sin...I guess I should burn my Bible. If my memory serves me right, were you not a worship leader in your church? Why then would you be against such a practice of keeping clear of evil influences in music? Please enlighten us on that score. Ok, another set of non-sequitors to address. First of all, I am not against the practice of keeping clear of evil influences in music. If you don't want "evil influences" in music then don't buy them. I do not support the destruction of art...in any form. Period. I have given my reasons in previous posts. However , if you like the idea of acting like a Nazi to "clean up" the realm of art..groovy. Go for it. I am not comfortable committing actions identical to Mao Tse Tung, Stalin and Hitler. As far as what is an "evil influence": some churches hold that drums evoke too sensual a sound for it be "holy unto God." Other churches complain that not enough songs directly refer to Christ. In that sense, "Amazing Grace" should be considered evil (maybe it is!). Further, many traditional hymns were sourced from Tavern drinking songs. Many bands and artists who originally had songs that "glorified" the secular have rewritten thoise same songs to be "holy" and "Christian" ("Some Kind Of Wonderful" by Grand Funk Railroad, for example). Finally, I'd like to commend you for attacking the messenger in a personal way with your question. Always the last bastion for the unthinking fascist: attack the integrity of the messenger rather than truly address the POINTS made in the posts. Art is supreme, above evil, worthy of preservation? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm Neither you, nor anyone has the right to destroy art or artists. The step from advocating the destruction of art and advocating the destruction of artists is very small. Yes, art and the written word NEED to be protected in order for you to have YOUR art and written word. I don't know if you live in the US, but the US Constitution was written with this very idea in mind: that FREEDOM is the issue that MUST be defended (and I'm Canadian!). That FREEDOM includes expression..that includes art. As vile a some of the stuff is that is produced, you MUST protect it in order to protect yourself. If you disagree, groovy. Just remember that you are denying a fundamental freedom in democracies if you want to seek out all the art and writings that you disagree with in order to "cleanse" your country of evil. I REALLY THINK this is taking it a tad too far. If someone chooses to destro music of which they have bought and feel it was detrimental to their faith and may hurt others' faith as well....then it goes. It's his music, he can choose what he wants to do with it. He's not stealing EVERYONES music from the whole country and throwing it in the fire. Gosh lets all just relax and stick with what the thread is really asking. **I even remember the start of this thread talking about how the member did not want to turn this into a controversy of what is considered "bad" music...I believe this is exactly what has happened....? When you talk of destroying something that someone created...you open the debate. Remember that when you buy a CD, you buy the RIGHT to USE that copyrighted material, not the right to DESTROY it. I refer back to not the assessment of what is evil, but to the act of destroying art, however vile that artistic expression is.

I said it in my posts. I do not believe in censorship because once I unleash the hounds against THAT stuff, it won't be long before someone can unleash the hounds at my stuff..... Again, who are YOU to judge what the intent of art is? Also, your "studies" that prove that art that depicts sinful acts results in an increase in those acts by consumers of that art is sheer crap. Those studies have been flwaed to a point of laughability...spurious garbage. Under that assessment, I should have quite an appetite for war and killing given the text of the Old Testament...or a penchant for crucifying people with the content of the new Testament. Burn your "evil" art, burn your "evil" books, torch the "evil" CD's and "evil" records..DESTROY IT ALL. Then look at what you've really done... You have done more evil than those articles may have ever done. To destroy something because of its POTENTIAL is ignorant to the nth degree. I have to thank the participants in this thread for moving me closer to leaving the faith altogether. Fascists.

Your comment makes a HUGE leap in logic. If I listen to something that talks about sin, then I am encouraged in sin...right? If that's the case, many sections of the Bible "promote" the details of sin...I guess I should burn my Bible. If my memory serves me right, were you not a worship leader in your church? Why then would you be against such a practice of keeping clear of evil influences in music? Please enlighten us on that score. Ok, another set of non-sequitors to address. First of all, I am not against the practice of keeping clear of evil influences in music. If you don't want "evil influences" in music then don't buy them. I do not support the destruction of art...in any form. Period. I have given my reasons in previous posts. However , if you like the idea of acting like a Nazi to "clean up" the realm of art..groovy. Go for it. I am not comfortable committing actions identical to Mao Tse Tung, Stalin and Hitler. As far as what is an "evil influence": some churches hold that drums evoke too sensual a sound for it be "holy unto God." Other churches complain that not enough songs directly refer to Christ. In that sense, "Amazing Grace" should be considered evil (maybe it is!). Further, many traditional hymns were sourced from Tavern drinking songs. Many bands and artists who originally had songs that "glorified" the secular have rewritten thoise same songs to be "holy" and "Christian" ("Some Kind Of Wonderful" by Grand Funk Railroad, for example). Finally, I'd like to commend you for attacking the messenger in a personal way with your question. Always the last bastion for the unthinking fascist: attack the integrity of the messenger rather than truly address the POINTS made in the posts. Art is supreme, above evil, worthy of preservation? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm Neither you, nor anyone has the right to destroy art or artists. The step from advocating the destruction of art and advocating the destruction of artists is very small. Yes, art and the written word NEED to be protected in order for you to have YOUR art and written word. I don't know if you live in the US, but the US Constitution was written with this very idea in mind: that FREEDOM is the issue that MUST be defended (and I'm Canadian!). That FREEDOM includes expression..that includes art. As vile a some of the stuff is that is produced, you MUST protect it in order to protect yourself. If you disagree, groovy. Just remember that you are denying a fundamental freedom in democracies if you want to seek out all the art and writings that you disagree with in order to "cleanse" your country of evil.

It's already been said already i'm sure Keilan, but if you were to sell them you are simply passing the problem on to someone else. And as for selling them and giving the money to the church, think about that one brother, would God want that money? Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's....God doesn't need your money, Caesar does...Hmm, Caesar...another Great Oppressor in history. just like Hitler...hmmmm

Your comment makes a HUGE leap in logic. If I listen to something that talks about sin, then I am encouraged in sin...right? If that's the case, many sections of the Bible "promote" the details of sin...I guess I should burn my Bible. If my memory serves me right, were you not a worship leader in your church? Why then would you be against such a practice of keeping clear of evil influences in music? Please enlighten us on that score. Ok, another set of non-sequitors to address. First of all, I am not against the practice of keeping clear of evil influences in music. If you don't want "evil influences" in music then don't buy them. I do not support the destruction of art...in any form. Period. I have given my reasons in previous posts. However , if you like the idea of acting like a Nazi to "clean up" the realm of art..groovy. Go for it. I am not comfortable committing actions identical to Mao Tse Tung, Stalin and Hitler. As far as what is an "evil influence": some churches hold that drums evoke too sensual a sound for it be "holy unto God." Other churches complain that not enough songs directly refer to Christ. In that sense, "Amazing Grace" should be considered evil (maybe it is!). Further, many traditional hymns were sourced from Tavern drinking songs. Many bands and artists who originally had songs that "glorified" the secular have rewritten thoise same songs to be "holy" and "Christian" ("Some Kind Of Wonderful" by Grand Funk Railroad, for example). Finally, I'd like to commend you for attacking the messenger in a personal way with your question. Always the last bastion for the unthinking fascist: attack the integrity of the messenger rather than truly address the POINTS made in the posts.

I can read many texts that "promote sin" and yet, i somehow am not "encouraged to commit sin" through reading them. Many pastors read ab out sin. I rememberr Zig Ziglar relating how he reads his bible everyday and then reads the newspaper and listens to the radio/TV news so he can "know what each side is doing." Know your enemy so you can defeat him. Burning books and music is a practice of totalitarian and religious extremist/terrorist organizations. Don't scratch or destroy the CD's. Simply throw them out if you don't want them.

Your comment makes a HUGE leap in logic. If I listen to something that talks about sin, then I am encouraged in sin...right? If that's the case, many sections of the Bible "promote" the details of sin...I guess I should burn my Bible.

It is NOT scriptural unless you feel that we are still in the Old Terstament days of Kings. Read my entire post for why burning is ignorant. If Christianity is really in favour of destroying books and music, then I will declaim my faith right now. No God of intelligence would want the destruction of ideas. He would want the chance for discussion and repentance. NOT destruction. How about the artist that produced the work? Should we draw and quarter him or her? Or hang? While we're at it, are you or your wife wearing a shirt with two fibers intertwining? Did you eat pork? or touch a football (pigskin)? Do you exile your wife from human contact during her period? These are all "scriptural" issues and punishable if transgressed. Some penalties are death. I'm not into casting stones from the OLD law. I'm into promoting FREEDOM through the NEW Testament. Again, I say, grab a brain!

Yes, the Lord will bless that! In Acts 19 we read: "18 And many who had believed came confessing and telling their deeds. 19 Also, many of those who had practiced magic brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all. And they counted up the value of them, and it totaled fifty thousand pieces of silver. 20 So the word of the Lord grew mightily and prevailed." Blessings! Alright, destory them it is. Burning I probably won't do, I don't trust myself with fire, do you think destroying the discs then tossing them will work? Our church conducts classes in Christian growth, and one of them is on Music. At the end of it we are given homework whereby we go through our homes and find things that are not God-honouring. Some things are not musical: books, ornaments, art, photographs, etc. We bring them back and discard them before the group. Some groups before us burned their things, but our group had them removed to a dumpster. If you destroy them and discard them, the same effect is achieved--they are useless! Good going! I can't believe the absolute ignorance here. What are you, some kind of Nazi? Burning music? What's next? Books? Get rid of them if you don't wnt them, fine, but don't destroy. The more I read the comments encouraging you to destroy, the less I want to be associated with the fascistson this discussion. Hitler, Stalin, Mao Tse Tung ...ALL of them "approved" art and music fro the cultural revolutions. ALL denied freedom. Stop this nonsense! Grab a brain! Sell them or let people who want them take them for free...even throw them in the garbage... BUT DON'T BURN THEM! If you do, you will be following in the steps of vile oppressors such as the Ayatollah and other religious extemists. Your religion has now reached the point of making you into a fascist. Time to step back and rethink your belief and stance. For all that's good and holy...THINK!!!!! Great idea. Give music promoting sin, premarital sex, drugs, drinking, and violence to someone else so they can enjoy it. Great witness. They'll really want you to tell them all about Jesus after that. A better witness is becoming Stalin? I did say that you could simply throw them into the garbage...it's the act of BURNING that is ignorant.

Yes, the Lord will bless that! In Acts 19 we read: "18 And many who had believed came confessing and telling their deeds. 19 Also, many of those who had practiced magic brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all. And they counted up the value of them, and it totaled fifty thousand pieces of silver. 20 So the word of the Lord grew mightily and prevailed." Blessings! Alright, destory them it is. Burning I probably won't do, I don't trust myself with fire, do you think destroying the discs then tossing them will work? Our church conducts classes in Christian growth, and one of them is on Music. At the end of it we are given homework whereby we go through our homes and find things that are not God-honouring. Some things are not musical: books, ornaments, art, photographs, etc. We bring them back and discard them before the group. Some groups before us burned their things, but our group had them removed to a dumpster. If you destroy them and discard them, the same effect is achieved--they are useless! Good going! I can't believe the absolute ignorance here. What are you, some kind of Nazi? Burning music? What's next? Books? Get rid of them if you don't wnt them, fine, but don't destroy. The more I read the comments encouraging you to destroy, the less I want to be associated with the fascistson this discussion. Hitler, Stalin, Mao Tse Tung ...ALL of them "approved" art and music fro the cultural revolutions. ALL denied freedom. Stop this nonsense! Grab a brain! Sell them or let people who want them take them for free...even throw them in the garbage... BUT DON'T BURN THEM! If you do, you will be following in the steps of vile oppressors such as the Ayatollah and other religious extemists. Your religion has now reached the point of making you into a fascist. Time to step back and rethink your belief and stance. For all that's good and holy...THINK!!!!! Great idea. Give music promoting sin, premarital sex, drugs, drinking, and violence to someone else so they can enjoy it. Great witness. They'll really want you to tell them all about Jesus after that. A better witness is becoming Stalin?

Yes, the Lord will bless that! In Acts 19 we read: "18 And many who had believed came confessing and telling their deeds. 19 Also, many of those who had practiced magic brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all. And they counted up the value of them, and it totaled fifty thousand pieces of silver. 20 So the word of the Lord grew mightily and prevailed." Blessings! Alright, destory them it is. Burning I probably won't do, I don't trust myself with fire, do you think destroying the discs then tossing them will work? Our church conducts classes in Christian growth, and one of them is on Music. At the end of it we are given homework whereby we go through our homes and find things that are not God-honouring. Some things are not musical: books, ornaments, art, photographs, etc. We bring them back and discard them before the group. Some groups before us burned their things, but our group had them removed to a dumpster. If you destroy them and discard them, the same effect is achieved--they are useless! Good going! I can't believe the absolute ignorance here. What are you, some kind of Nazi? Burning music? What's next? Books? Get rid of them if you don't want them, fine, but don't destroy. The more I read the comments encouraging you to destroy, the less I want to be associated with the fascists on this discussion. But I MUST speak out here.... Hitler, Stalin, Mao Tse Tung ...ALL of them "approved" art and music for their cultural revolutions. ALL denied freedom. Stop this nonsense! Grab a brain! Sell them or let people who want them take them for free...even throw them in the garbage... BUT DON'T BURN THEM! If you do, you will be following in the steps of vile oppressors such as the Ayatollah and other religious extemists. Frankly, your religion has now reached the point of making you into a fascist. You are fearful of all things "evil" (I put evil in quotes baecause i believe these things to not be evil of their own accord, but because you have judged them so...) Time to step back and rethink your belief and stance. For all that's good and holy...THINK!!!!! Remember that plenty of good, holy people are exposed to evil daily and retain their holiness, without destroying books or music. Your church is sadly misguided if they think that teens and youth can be steered to be more "holy" by destroying music CD's that are not "approved." All that does is promote legalism and despotism. Stay free and rethink....

Well, once again the Bible is defended in the face of obvious contradiction and (mis)representation. In one case, Jesus performs a miracle; in the other, a sick or dying girl sits up. I believe the latter. Notice how it does not say that the girl lived after this encounter. Frankly, I'll bet she died.

By listening rather than speaking and seeking rather than ignoring. Listen to the witness and tesimony of others, starting with Jesus Christ Himself. Well, your answer is the typical slap-to-the-face dogma that drives people away from what I'm discovering is a false belief. I vote that He existed and walked the erarth. I also vote that the Jesus preached and (mis)represented by the Bible is not the true Christ of history. I also contend that the Bible is incomplete, contradictory and incoherent in places (much like the Christians I've had the misfortune of meeting).

That's like saying that a battered wife doesn't HAVE to let anyone hurt her. Your lack of compassion is disgraceful. What a defendeer of the church you are! Hypocrite!

Give up on your trying to be "holy through works". Stop attending the church you go to that MUST promote "holy living". If necessary, stop your belief in a vengeful God, and be a little less hard on yoursef.

So....if God doesn't have everything planned then why does scripture say,"All things work together for good for those who love Him and are called according to His purposes"? I'm very sorry you're feeling so wounded. I'm just hoping this won't turn into a resentment for you.... It sounds to me like it already has. He has to come to grips with the Sovereignty of God if he is ever to be free! That makes me so sad.... Save your pity. i am not resentful. I am pointing out that churches hurt people, not because God wants this to happen, but because people choose to judge and condemn others. They eat their own: But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. Galatians 5:15

So....if God doesn't have everything planned then why does scripture say,"All things work together for good for those who love Him and are called according to His purposes"? I'm very sorry you're feeling so wounded. I'm just hoping this won't turn into a resentment for you.... It sounds to me like it already has. He has to come to grips with the Sovereignty of God if he is ever to be free! God is sovereign. You judge me harshly, like the majority of Christians I've met. I am not resentful. I am aware of the evil that passes for church. That evil originates from men, not God.

So....if God doesn't have everything planned then why does scripture say,"All things work together for good for those who love Him and are called according to His purposes"? I'm very sorry you're feeling so wounded. I'm just hoping this won't turn into a resentment for you.... Read your Old Testament. You will note many times when the Children of Israel were disobedient. If God is in complete control, and our lives are nothing but fate-driven, then no reason would exist for salvation. Evil actions do not originate from God. An evil spirit does. read how God placed an evil spirit on Saul. Satan cannot place spirits on people. No scripture supports such garbage. Free will is necessary for there to be love. "All things work together for good for those who love Him and are called according to His purposes": Read that again: ACCORDING TO HIS PURPOSES. That means that some are NOT acting according to His purposes... I was in achurch that acted Not according to His purposes...result: evil actions.