aftwine

I'm probably not the best to respond to this post, I grew up in violence (school and friends not home) so my first answer is yes. Thought about it a little more. Still yes, it would be very stupid and un-Christlike to watch someone brutally kill my wife or son or even a stranger when I could help by defending by any means necessary. Sadly to many of you, but if anyone did hurt my family and I got to them before the cops .. . .. well i'd probably kill them.

Alright khalou you said "Mark saw the temple destroyed ...." meaning that the dates of the Gospels are written at times that aren't the accepted norm. You say this for an accurate understanding of the entire picture, so that you can determine whether or not Jesus Christ is the Messiah and Christianity is for real.(and the only real) So let me ask you a question, would you willfully die for something you hold as Truth. And before you go into how tradition and legend says this and that, we know one apostle for sure without a doubt was martyred~James the son of Zebedee: He was put to death by Herod Agrippa I shortly before the day of the Passover, in the year 44 or about 11 years after the death of Christ. From Acts 12: 1-2. Would you do that if you didn't believe it was true?

Goldfish to be saved you must not subscribe to mormonism.

Try Exodus Decoded on History Channel. ..... . Very Good!

Ah, right, now this explains a little more. Spirits are demons, or demonic forces - this is what was confusing me most, as the word 'spirit' is one I usually interpret to mean 'ghost.' So - there is no real magic, only demons convincing people that there is, and doing harm through their attempts to wield it. Yes? If this is the case, then I wonder again at the venom many Christians hold for fantasy stories. Clearly, such stories are set in hypothetical worlds where magic in the traditional, non-demon-inspired sense, exists. Christian parents could easily tell their children the difference between their opinion of demon-power-magic and what they were reading about or seeing, just the same as every parent can tell a child the difference between a horse, which does exist, and a unicorn, which looks very similar to a horse but which is a separate, fantastic creature. Eve you tell your child please don't touch the stove while it's on because it will burn you. Your child knows that the stove may burn him but does not have the expierence to prove to him that it really is hot. You tell your child that magic is make-believe, fake non-fiction stories like HP and expect them to understand. They may know that it is fake and that it is not right before God but have they expierenced it and known they made a mistake. This can also be applied to pre-marital sex, alcohol, pretty much any sin..........it also can be used for you as well. We can tell you day and night "Eve!, God does love you and He is very real" you may "know" of the idea but you really have not expierenced Him and so therefore your lost to the notion. That is why parents who are chritians choose to guard there children on certain issues.

Am I the only one who doesn't really "get" the OP? I particularly don't understand what is being asked above. Can I get a little clarification? Are you saying that circumstances determine a person's choices in life? A perfect person will never exist (outside of Christ), a perfect church will never exist (man-made), a perfect society will never exist, and whether you are Christian or Athiest, the choices you make most of the time are personal conscience quickies, mostly never though out, on impulse, desires of the heart. A Christian when faced with a dilemma may pray, A Athiest may call his mom. But we all usually learn by mistakes, I see that as our imperfections teaching us, not perfecting us. The Ten Commandments can never work, we already know this, "none can be made perfect before the Law", not even the most righteous of righteous. read the sig homie

fish~What are the attributes of God?

Is everyone ready for the big one, explain how purgatory is scriptural?

These are they who will be cast into the hell you are referring to. D&C 76: 31 Thus saith the Lord concerning all those who know my power, and have been made partakers thereof, and suffered themselves through the power of the devil to be overcome, and to deny the truth and defy my power

How do you feel that many end-time prophecy thinkers have pegged the RCC as the ringleader for the Trib one world church?

No, it isn't enough. You can't not question the fact that it makes no logical sense. No man could manage to find two of every species of animal and keep them on a boat for an extened period of time. Just so you know Noah actually took 2 animals from every unclean species on the ark, he took 7 of all the clean ones and the birds ~~~> Genesis 7 1 The LORD then said to Noah, "Go into the ark, you and your whole family, because I have found you righteous in this generation. 2 Take with you seven [a] of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and two of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, 3 and also seven of every kind of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the earth. 4 Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made."

Your response confused me a little, not in the least because you seemed, in tone, to be presuming a foreknowledge of my reactions. Given that we've never spoken before on these boards (to my memory at least) and the fact that you don't know me in person, I find this a bit presumptuous. You've stated the idea that science admits to being fallable, and you believe that this makes science untrustworthy. You've further compared this argument to one used by many athiests with regard to the Bible, saying that because it is flawed (in their opinion) in one area, the whole is flawed, too. From this, you have concluded that if I dismiss the Bible on those grounds, I should similarly dismiss science. If - and this is a big if - both the Bible and scientific principle were founded on the same basis, then you would have a point. As it is, however, there are two facts which need to be taken into consideration. 1. The Bible is written with the premise of being the infallable, ultimate, perfect Word of God. If even one error suggests that this isn't the case, then it is quite natural that the whole should likewise be suspect, as the truth of the whole is based on the integrity of the whole and the divinity of the author, and not on any other external standard. 2. Science is founded on the idea of searching for truth, and also on the idea that man makes mistakes. Science does not pretend, as a discipline, to be without error: a good deal of the scientific process is probing what is assumed to be true to make sure that this is, in fact, the case. Scientists admitting that a theory was flawed undermines the credibility of the one human being who came up with it, not the intelligence of those who proved it wrong and certainly not the entire discipline. The difference? Science admits its failings, and takes them into account. It searches for, rather than presumes absolute knowledge of, truth. If a scientist admits error, then their work alone becomes faulty. If, on the other hand, God is found to be errant, then the entire premise of the Bible is flawed, and so the single affects the whole. We both agree on what you just posted (I was making an analogy about a generalization of what athiests feel, you are above that so good on ya) ~~~but did you look at the links...

Proof that: (a) the Bible isn't manifestly contradicted by science, logic and/or everyday observation, and (b) that no other theory of how the world works has any comparative merit whatsoever. A-Contradictions by science, logic and/or everday observation usually end up coming to one of three points. 1-You will see the answers provided as good factual answers, enough so to satisfy you intellectual needs and then convince your heart God is who He says He is 2-You will see the answers provided( CreationWiki ,AiG, Tektonics ) and dismiss them as incomplete or irrational. 3-You will see these same answers and think that diety does exist but not believe that Jesus Christ is the only way to Heaven. B-Other theories of how the world works must have no merit, <~~~this one cracks me up. Atheists seem to believe absolute scientific knowledge has been obtained and/or on the way (Test) But you and I both know science changes like the weather and theories will change. Most will point there finger and say "well if there is one contradiction then the Bible is false" with that logic then we can say every time science changes it's mind on something then it must be fake. (NOTE:contradictions have been repeadetly refuted check here Cleared up, here More clearing, here again Tektonics.) Constantly debating with athiests about God's realness is a task that truly depends on whether they will accept God or not. Talking about indoctrination by the way is ridicoulous, my freaking indoctrination was atheism, growing up I had knowledge of Muslims, Hindus, Budhists, etc. in America, this idea has lost it's appeal, we're one big apostasy! In the end like I said is depends on you not me. If you take the time to look through these websites I listed and read them neutrally without a hardened heart maybe you may see who Jesus is, why He is so important and why the Gospel is real and salvation is definitely important.

Simple question: What do you need to see or hear to believe or consider believing in God?

It does matter if we argue and what we say while we argue does matter too. You obviously don't understand the importance of testing your beliefs, which must be why you're defending someone who dropped a "hey this is what I believe, please don't argue, ktnxbye" comment. I'm not defending there comment. I responded to what you said about either believing Muslim or Jew both of who don't believe in what Christians do. BUT pay attention, . . . . . you came to a Christian Forum, w h y ? to seek the truth and if you come back with "yes that's exactly what i'm doing trying to find proof for the existance of The Lord of Lords and King of Kings the Creator of the heavens and the earth, is He real?" then i'll say your not satisfied with the Christian view because like i tell most athiests there's no autographed picture you can dig up of God with the angels vacationing in Hawaii, He can't be seen with your telescope floating through space....but the answers are in His Word and sometimes nonbelievers or Christians might not like His answers. I want to know what God did before He created us. I want to know the timeline of the earth and it's ancient history. I want God to tell me what's going to happen next in my life. But in due time, through faith and repentance of sin, salvation through Christ, and suffering in His name, and with my last breath I will find myself on the brink of eternity all questions about to be answered, knowing I trusted God being faithful so He would be faithful to me.

"Islam is very strict in preventing us from the pitfalls in which Jews and 'Christians have fallen " oh yeah like all those Christian and Jewish suicide bombers, crazy extremists! religion of peace

Do Muslims, Mormons, JW's and other cults when they find a handful of verses and misinterpret them think there special all of a sudden? some 500-600 years after Jesus dies on the cross Mohammed recieves some revaltion from Gabriel, then picks a few obscure verses and adds them to his holy book and now it's the true religion 1800 years after Jesus dies on the cross some midwestern farmboy decides he saw an angel who told him to find gold tablets with a new revaltion of Jesus that totally contradicts everything God is there's a trend here Revelations 22 18-19: 18I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book. like they found some new truth

Of course I am free to believe whatever I want, why would you even mention something as obvious as that? It doesn't even help your case. I think what you missed is it will not matter to you if we argue day and night for five years about the issue you will see it your way no matter who or what you want to believe. It's not my case you should be worrying about, you came to these boards either looking for justification not to believe or justivication to believe. It seems you are not statisfied with God at this point, you came here for a reason, a Christian Forum. Oh by the way the only difference between a Jew and a Christian/Messianic is believing that Jesus is the Messiah. We both believe in Jehovah/Yahweh/God.

This quote right here. I disagree with you due to the fact that in the end times there will be a universal religion. Whether you believe or trust in me is your choice and your soul. I'm not gonna force you into anything you don't want to agree with. So simply put I'll take the disagree to agree. have a blessed day! So you come and drop a comment where you assert something and then assert that you don't want to discuss that something? Why should I care about something like this? Why would I believe you rather then a Muslim or a Jew? We may present the Gospel, answer you in Truth as best as possible, but ultimately it's your ability to decide if you want to accept Jesus as your Savior and believe in God. You're free to believe any Muslim or Jew or Hindu or Taoist or Teapot (you get the point)

Historical Witnesses There has long been debate concerning the life of Jesus. Some people claim that Jesus never existed. One reason for their argument is fact that Jesus never wrote anything himself. There may not be a book of Jesus, but Matthew, Mark, Luke and John certainly offer detailed records about Him, His life and His activities. We don't have archives of old newspapers to turn to, but several ancient historical records corroborate the Bible's account of Jesus. Because the first century was a time when the vast majority of these witness were indifferent to Christianity, there would be no reason for them or later Christians to fabricate their statements. Flavius Josephus (AD 38-100+) wrote about Jesus in his Jewish Antiquities. From Josephus, "we learn that Jesus was a wise man who did surprising feats, taught many, won over followers from among Jews and Greeks, was believed to be the Messiah, was accused by the Jewish leaders, was condemned to be crucified by Pilate, and was considered to be resurrected." (4) Lucian of Samosata (c. AD 120 - after 180)was born at Samosata in Commagene and calls himself a Syrian. In Lucian's book, The Passing Peregrinus, he wrote about a traveler named Proteus who met some followers of Jesus in the early Church. "At which time he learned the wonderful doctrine of the Christians, by conversing with their priests and scribes near Palestine... they spoke of him as a god, and took him for a lawgiver, and honored him with the title of master... They still worship that great man who was crucified in Palestine, because he introduced into the world this new religion... Moreover their first lawgiver has taught them, that they are all brethren, when once they turned, and renounced the gods of the Greeks, and worship that master of theirs who was crucified, and engage to live according to his laws." Tacitus (c. 56

See the Light! AiG answers the question of starlight and it's travel wonderfully. If you are skeptical to Biblical Creation please read.

Thank you for this wonderful information, verses that are either misinterpreted, not fulfilled or just need a little more work so i'll give you these: Tektonics 101 all cleared up! Apologetics index to contradictions Rational Christianity Honestly though I doubt you would take the time to read each page and consider the arguments for God. Being slanted and hard in heart towards our Father, I guess you'll give my response about as much time as I gave yours. You see what you post is also nonsense, it's nonsense to me. Me arguing proof that my Father in Heaven exists is nonsense to you. We both look like fools to the other. You may see me as a bi..............okay hold on as i'm typing this i just read your responses to the posts i made about scientific facts in the Bible, i have just one question for you, if all of these were so "obvious" then why did it take hundreds and thousands of years for the scientific community to catch up? You make it seem so easy to explain everything away. You keep making absolute statements based off the trends of science today, but anyone will tell you science changes like the weather, new things are found out all the time, now granted i'm being vague but the point is you or the scientific community do not know everything. Am I right? You assume to know that by not having "proof" scientifically that God exist because there's no tablet with his picture autographed, or a floating kingdom next to the moon for you to look at with a telescope, "well then there God just doesn't exist", but He tells in His Word that by just looking at Creation you can not deny Him. The laws and physics of nature, the abundance and diversity of species, the sheer beauty of our planet and it's people, the fact that you and I both have a conscience, (but that's just a higher level of knowledge right?), don't deny what you can't absolutely know, your teapot may surely float around the sun maintaning it's orbit, rotating on it's axis, but I leave you with one thing then, my God created it.

AAA this was for you I think you missed it. Example? (also Biblical prophecy is pretty plain to understand, different interpretations only are needed for those which have not occured or with those that people think are revealed in Revaltions/Daniel/Oliviet Discourse that occured before 70AD~the point is they still happened in their eyes, (rapture, second coming, anitchrist) Did you ever possibly think this was His answer? Really do people who say this teapot revealed itself to them come to you with there testimonies of it's glory and redemption. Doubt it. I understand what you mean about saying something may love me but it may not exist, so my mom doesn't really exist. I hope I don't sound harsh but dude I was just like you no less than four years ago, it'll take time but you'll see. Regardless of churches, christians, heretics and whackos Christ is still very real.

Scientific Facts in the Bible 1. Only in recent years has science discovered that everything we see is composed of invisible atoms. Here, Scripture tells us that the "things which are seen were not made of things which do appear." 2. Medical science has only recently discovered that blood-clotting in a newborn reaches its peak on the eighth day, then drops. The Bible consistently says that a baby must be circumcised on the eighth day. 3. At a time when it was believed that the earth sat on a large animal or a giant (1500 B.C.), the Bible spoke of the earth

Hey Pilgrim why don't you check out what Jesus and the Law really are all about: The Way of The Master If you're really searching for Truth in the manner of Law and it's implications for Christians Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron pretty much did it for you. listen to the first two audios Don't pass it bye.