graymousey

In John 1:9 it is written: "That was the true Light that lighteth every man who cometh into the world." God put His laws in our hearts, and we can differentiate between right and wrong, good and evil. Besides, God gave us His Commandments, and from that we can know what is sin. Sin separates us from God, so, when a sinner wants to make peace with God, he has to put the 'sin-barricade' away from the way, and he does it by repenting his sins. "Your sins separate you from your God... and hides His Face from you..." Zacchaeus said that he will return four-fold to everybody what he took away unlowfully. That is repentance. The prodigal's returning home was repentance. What he said to his father, showed his repentance. It doesn't matter why he returned. The point is that he did, and he humbeled himself, and that was repentance. "Where in the prescription for salvation does it say that repentance is a requirement?" Absolutely it is the first requirement. Only repentance can produce salvation. Floatingaxe answered this question. Besides, repentance is the key to make peace with God. Whenever the Israelites repented, the Lord delivered them. When we repent, we agree with God that He is right, when we repent, we stand on His side. Sin is of Satan, and when we repent, we denounce our allegiances with Satan, and we ask God to take us in. "So the question is what type of repentance are you speaking of? Yes there is a turn, but I cant turn on my own. I must commit myself to Christ, and as I allow His life to have lordship turning will be spontaneous" I am talking about salvation. One must look into the 'mirror' of God's laws, and from there one can know that he is a sinner, and that the "wages of sin is death.." Christ cannot forgive sins that were not repented, and He cannot regenerate somebody before he wants to repudiate his sins and turn to God. Later, when one is already saved, then the indwelling Holy Spirit leads him, and shows him sins that he didn't dealt with as yet. "I cannot see that any genuine person who has decided to believe into and follow Christ has not repented by that very act!" That is not the same, that is not repentance. Repentance is turning away from sin. Repentance is shown by a new life. "..old things have passed away, behold everything became new..." Since we have this sinful nature, and since by this nature we love sin, and since we are great philosophers, we would try to sneak sins into the Kingdom. Even if we are willing to repudiate most of our sins, there always are some pet sins we want to bargain into heaven. We are such wretches.

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough. I just realized that repentance is not preached in my church, and it upsets me. The "Gospel without repentance" is what I hear all the time: "Recognize your need, recognize that you are a sinner, repent your self-effort, recognize that Christ died on your place, receive Christ as your Savior, and now you have eternal security." This is the Gospel without repentance. Repentance is missing, turning away from sin is missing, and that renders the whole to be a false gospel. "Also how would you know what to repent unless the light of God is shed upon your condition. A christians life should be full of repentance. As God sheds more light the more we repent, but we need God's light, without it is impossible to repent." That is true for an already saved person. But to obtain salvation, to be born again, to get the divine nature be implanted into one's heart one has to repent his sins and turn away from them, and walk in a new life. One has to make a 180 degree turn. Like the prodigal did, like Zaccheus did.

Yes, this is in God's Word, but it is hard to find a church that presents it with the Gospel. And if not, then they preach a false gospel. Usually it is encouraged to acknowledge one's need, and to turn to God, etc... but biblical repentance is much more then that. What is wrong with the word denomination? There are many, and doctrine divides them from each other.

Repentance is a change of mind towards sin, and it always demonstrates itself with a changed life. Repentance is cleaning out the old, and starting a new. Repentance is a complete turn around. From the 'pigpen to the father's house is an example of true repentance. Can a 'gospel without repentance' produce true converts? No, it cannot, for it cannot bring about the new birth. I believe that the gospel without repentence is a false gospel, and it produces false converts; converts who were lied to. To preach a gospel without repentance and then assure the converts about their eternal security is plain deception. Is it sufficient to admit, or acknowledge that I am a sinner, and ask God to save me? Not without repentance; not without turning away from sin, not without changing my ways. God accepts sinners, but never together with their sins. (This doesn't mean that sin will never happen again, for it will. We have a sinful nature that is with us till our death). My questions are: Isn't it true that repentance is the key to God's heart? Which denominations (if any) preach this kind of biblical repentance for salvation?

Canadasgenius wrote: "we cannot substitute the word "denomination" for the word "Church". There is one Church (the body of believers, wherever they are), and this has nothing to do with denomination." That is very true. You said it well. Canadasgenius, you must be the child of God, are you not? 'Cause only His children are geniuses.

Thanks again for every input. I wasn't clear in my original post. I am not interested in knowing about the International Church of Christ, only about the original, independent Churches of Christ. So, if you guys know anything more about that, it would be appreciated.

Thank you for every one of you for the replies. I really appreciate every input. If you know anything more, please tell me. "We believe that the bible and our salvation is based upon more than just grace and faith since there are verses where we are commanded to follow after the commandments of Christ." Would you mind to elaborate on this? Are you saying that salvation is not by God's grace alone through faith, but there are other things one must do in order to get saved? Yes, I agree that all Scripture was given to us as 2 Timothy says, but what does it have to do with salvation? One is following the Scripture after one was saved, isn't that true? "As I am aware, there are two organizations that go by the name "Church of Christ." One is a perfectly legit and doctrinally correct group of believers. The other is filled with doctrinal error and even heresy." How can one know which is which? Is there any way to make the distinction? Are these two organizations in unity with each other? "salvation can be lost, not just by virtue of having committed a sin, but also by leaving the Church of Christ organization:" I didn't know this. If somebody is leaving them, do they say that 'now you are not saved any longer'? Or its just understood among themselves?

"While I don't believe that they are correct in teaching that baptism is a part of salvation.." Is there anything else where they stand against mainline Christianity? "For me any group that says I can't receive salvation unless I belong to their group is a cult..." I see. Is there anything else where they are different? Or it is only the Baptism question?

I have often heard other Christian groups refer to the 'Church of Christ' as a cult. I am wondering why, for I haven't found any valid reason so far. (I am not talking about the 'United Church of Christ' which is a completely different denomination).

I must add one more thing, and this is to everybody who participated in this thread: If the biblical example would be followed, then we wouldn't even have this confusion. In the Bible, when somebody believed, Baptism followed immediately, and so, all was well. Now some people redefined the meaning of Baptism, and they declare that it is not important, and they confuse Baptism with "works" but Baptism is not a work, and it doesn't take away from Christ's merit, and it doesn't add anything to God's salvation, which is free, and is by faith alone and by God's grace alone. Baptism is simply the road one must take in order to receive God's free gift.

Kabowd, thanks for your concern. But I cannot understand why would you see Baptism as a 'work,' or why do you think that Baptism would add anything to Christ's free gift of salvation? Baptism doesn't take away from the fact that salvation is free and it is only by faith in God's grace, through the shed Blood of the Lord Jesus. But we have our part that we must do. For example, the Lord Jesus says: "come unto Me..." so, we have to come. It is also written "take the water of life freely.." so, we have to take... That is our part in it. So is salvation. We have to take it as the Lord directed. The Bible says; repent, get baptised for the forgiveness of sins, and you will receive the Holy Spirit. All that is free, but it is our responsibility to obtain them. It seems to me, that people are so worried not to claim any merit in salvation, that they even deny the procedure Christ appointed us to follow in order to receive the free gift of salvation. Imagine that a rich man stands in the market place, and he offers gold coins, for the taking. The coins are entirely free, but only those will possess one who take it. So it is with Baptism. Salvation is free, it is by faith alone, and you show your faith by obeying Christ, and get baptised. We have to follow God's procedure in order to receive it, but it is FREE! In my previous post I mentioned the procedure one must go through in order to receive salvation. I believe that this is totally biblical, and solid, and it doesn't take anything away from Christ's merit.

"I've been baptized twice in the name of the father and in the son, and in the holy ghost? Is there a wrong way to be baptist? I am pretty sure I'm saved. I do however feel like I lack fruits of the spirit. Is there a certain way to receive the holy spirit? Does having the holy spirit give you power over unclean spirits? I though I had the holy spirit but then I thought I didn't????????????? Sorry, I didn't answer the question but I had a question too" Kjwatts947 check whether or not you complied with all of those "prerequisits" I mentioned in my previous post. Make sure that when you repented, you actually turned away from your sins. We cannot sneak sin into the Kingdom. Take Christ not only for your Saviour, but also for your Lord. If you do all that, then you are saved according to the Bible's teaching. You have to accept by faith that when you did your part of the bargain, God did His, and He gave you His Holy Spirit. Don't question it, and don't fell into the trap of "experiences" certain denominations teach. "We live by faith, not by sight." Then, you have to remember that our sinful nature is with us till we die, and we have to "mortify" it day by day and choose to live according to the new nature we got. Be aware of the presence of the Holy Spirit, and follow the teachings of Christ. If you fail, repent, and start anew. Never question your salvation. Make a conscious decision to side with your new nature, and the Lord will be with you.

Thanks to everybody for the replies. I am well aware that Baptism by itself doesn't save anybody, it is not the magical way to get to heaven, and yet I am persuaded that there are prerequisites we must fulfil in order to get saved, and that Baptism is one of them. These are the prerequisits: 1. We have to recognize our sins; that we both were born with an inherited sinful nature and we haven

"gray to be honest with you, it is best you make time to read the New Testament. you will have people on both sides claiming what is right. to come to a forum and ask then your going to get both answers. ... 3xR0c|<stAr" Exrock, you are mistaken here. I don't want anybody's opinion. I want to know why people claim what they claim. Where do they take their belief from? How did they arrive to the conclusion what they believe now. The question of baptism is a problem for me. I used to think, that baptism was not needed for salvation, that it was only a step of obedience, and that it shows publically what already happened between God and man. But now I think I was wrong in all that, and this is the reason I ask the question.

Thanks for your replies. But I still have some questions: "you can be saved without a water baptism.." But to best of my knowledge forgiveness of sins and the Holy Spirit are given to one when he is baptised. How can one be saved without that? Please prove your point by Scripture. "The act of baptism in and of itself is not a means of salvation; but proof of it." Could you please elaborate on this, proving your point by Scriptures? I ask this because I don't know any Scripture that would prove this idea. "However, obedience, ultimately, is a part of it. " Where does the Bible say that Baptism is only a step of obedience? horizoneast, so your answer is that Baptism is necessary for salvation?

Is it possible to be saved without Baptism? Is Baptism necessary for salvation? Thanks for the replies.

Eliyahuw wrote: "The law was implemented to condemn man. When it was fulfilled a new covenant with man was made. In that covenant tithing was part of the OT and the temple was no longer needed. The curtain was rent in two and God no longer resided in the holy of holies but in mans heart. The christian had the office of priesthood bestowed on him so there is no longer any need for OT tithing which was to support the priests. Since we dont' need priests any longer, as we are priests under christ, then whats left is giving what the Holy spirit lays on our heart. We are no longer under the law. The commandments of christ made under the new covenant are what we live by of which include the same principals of the noahidic laws as well as the 10 commandments. Christ pretty much covered them in his greatest commandment. Specifically the little old lady that put two shekels into the Tithe box Christ made a example out of. The rich righteous jews that were going in where heaping gobs of money into the tithe box, yet he made it a point to say that she gave more than anyone there with her two shekels. SHe gave all that she had. Thats not a tithe, but a offering. THis is where Christ abandoned the concept of tithing and introduced offerings of the heart." Eliyahuw, I totally agree with you. Tithe no longer exists, only offering does. FoC wrote: "If the church wasnt so blasted wasteful, then they wouldnt need to use your tithe to pay mortgage payments and would put that money to more useful purposes." FoC, I agree with you. Also, the Apostle Paul was a tent maker, and he supported himself by working. He was helped though here and there by the offerings of the saints. Tithe is not based on the pattern showed us in the NT. We all should give whatever the Lord tells us, to the cause what He lays on our hearts; and that is called offering in the NT.

Would you explain please what you mean?

Hi, Chiquita, Whenever some bad things happen to me, I always go back, and make inventory in my life. I ask questions like 'am I on the right path, or did I got off of it?' Do I live in obedience? Did I do anything the Lord wouldn't approve of? How did I get into that specific situation that went wrong? Did I follow God's leading, or did I follow my own ideas? Was I listening to the small voice in my heart, that comes from the indwelling Holy Spirit? Or did I shut Him up, and did things according to the wishes of my old self? If I catch myself of any of these, then whatever bad happened to me, I know that it was my fault, and I have to repent, and go back to the Lord and make sure that I am on prayer ground. The reason I say that, because if we are not on prayer ground, our prayers do not go through. "If I hold iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me.." says the Psalmist. (paraphrased). "I have been molested twice, date raped.." -- you say. Chiquita, may I ask you about choosing your friends? Those of us who walk with the Lord, we have to choose friends and companions who are also walking with the Lord. Was your 'date' a Christian? Don't you find anything that could have been your fault when those bad things happened? Sexual harassment usually is caused (not always) by provoking clothes, and/or demeanour. I am not suggesting that this was your case, but examine yourself; could people see from your behaviour that you belong to the Lord? They fired you from two jobs for no reason, you say. Why would people do such things? Can you, deep in your heart justify their decision? I am just asking these questions, because if anything what happened to you is your fault, and you don't acknowledge it, if you don't own it, then it will happen again and again. You say that "I can go to federal prison if they get caught" but if you didn't know about that business, then they will not charge you. They don't put people into prison if they were not guilty. I don't know the nature of the froud they did, but there is a certain responsibility when one is aware of such things. Go to your pastor, and tell him about it, and ask his advice. Maybe you have to do something about it, maybe not, I don't know the circumstances, but it is important that you react and act as a Christian should. You say that you want to do good and live an honest life, --- that is very commandable. But may I ask you, what does it mean to you that you profess to be a Christian? How did you become one? How did it happen? What brought you to the Lord Jesus? Did He make a personal deal with you? Or you just decided to go to church and call yourself a Christian? Have you been born again? Did you take the Lord Jesus as your Saviour only? Or did you take Him as your Lord, and as the Leader of your life? Did you take up your cross and are you following Him? How can you say that you are jinxed if you gave your life to Christ? No such thing can happen to the child of God. When the Lord Jesus died on the cross, He not only saved His children from sin and hell, but also that they wouldn't be toys in the hands of Satan. You say that you never left the side of the Lord. May I ask you what do you mean by that? You ask whether or not you are "praying hard enough." But what is your relationship with the Lord? Did He forgive your sins? How He leads you? How He is communicating with you? Did you go to Christ on His terms? How did it happen? Don't take my questions badly, I would like to help you, and if you answer these questions honestly, then it will be easier to see what is the problem. If the problem lies with you, and you don't realize that, then these problems will keep coming. It is very important to get to the bottom of it, because only then can you correct if something is your fault. I am not saying that it is, -- don't take me wrong.

Thank you, I think I will use it. It is very good. But who is Chuck Missler, and why did you put his name there? I probably will make a tract out of your work, and then distribute it. So please pray for all that. Chicagoburbitemaybe and Iryssa, it is a good idea; I will try to use mine some way, I pray that the Lord will show me where and how. Peaceafire and Marnie, thanks for the input. You all were very helpful, and I really appreciate your kindness. May the Lord bless you all!

Thank you to all of you. It is disappointing, --- I was so excited and happy that maybe I can do it, but obviously I cannot. You are right, it is too long. But there is so many things I thought must be in it, I couldn't write it any shorter. I printed it out, and it made five pages. Yeah, it is too long, you are right, I agree. Thanks for your time and kindness. I will have to look some tracts again, maybe I'll find something I like.

Here is my problem: I don't like any of the gospel tracts that I have seen so far. I think that somebody who don't know the issues will not understand their message at all. I want to distribute tracts, and so, I am trying to write my own. It will be a little booklet, and this is what I have so far. This is the first draft, so, there might be silly mistakes in it, but I would like to know if it is understandable, clear, and all encompassing. English is my second language, so, I am not too confident, lol. Please tell me what do you think about the context, or anything else you find important. Tell me if you think that something is missing from it, or if something shouldn't be in it. If somebody who never heard about the Bible, about God and salvation, will they understand this? I am very grateful for your help, and I thank you very much. I would have asked my children to correct it, but they are too busy, and I might have to wait a long time till they would do it, and that's why I came to you guys. Thanks again. The Bible is the Word of God. The Bible is God's inspired Word to us; It is a collection of 66 books, written through ~ 40 different men over a period of ~ 2,000 years, and yet, it is one Book, with perfect unity. The one consistent theme of the Bible is God's Plan of Redemption of fallen sinful humanity, through His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. The Bible's unique structure, its moral standards, its Message, its fulfilled prophecies, it's scientific accuracy, etc... provide ample evidence of divine inspiration. Those who put their trust in the God of the Bible testify by experience that God is good; He keeps His promises, and that only God's message of salvation can give purpose and hope to our lives. From the Bible we can know, that our Creator is almighty, merciful, all knowing, unchangeable, faithful and just. Satan, God's enemy, -- is the originator of sin in the Universe. God's Spirit and Satan's spirit are opposing to each other and they can never be reconciled. How did we end up being sinners? The Bible tells us that our first parents were sinless with free will, when created. They had a warm spiritual relationship with God. Their happiness lay in their obedience to God. All that was ruined when they disobeyed God and turned to their own ways. As a result the human race was fallen; the human nature became contaminated by sin. God is holy and sin-hater, and so the relationship between God and man was broken, and God ousted Adam and Eve from His Presence. On our way to hell.. We all inherit the sinful nature; and when we come into this world this sinful nature that loves sin sets us up for failure; we are born far from God on the road that leads to hell. We are a disobedient, defiant rebellious race, and for that we are condemned by God. Without God there is emptiness God is the Source of life, and when sin came between God and man, we became separated from the Source of Life, and that put us in a state of spiritual death. But we are created to have communion with God, -- we are not self-sufficient beings; we need God's Presence in our lives,--- without God there is a deep void in our souls; a void that nothing can fill, nor satisfy. When we turned away from God, we lost both purpose and true happiness. What is sin? Sin is rebellion against, or indifference toward God. Sin is the trespassing of God's laws, it is a moral abnormality. Sin separates and distances us from our Creator, and at the same time sin ties us to Satan, since sin originates and comes from Satan's nature. The deadly consequence of the Fall: Our innermost being, -- our nature, the part that is immortal in us; -- the part that will be resurrected, --- that is the part that became contaminated by sin. This means that when we die, --- the way we are, --- we cannot go to be with God since our sinful nature gravitates us to the opposite direction; away from God. The fact that we are sinners is the reason that God seems so far away from us, that some of us even consider to doubt God's very existence. The Bible explains: "...your iniquities (sins) have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid His face from you..." (Isaiah 59:2). The fallen nature ties us to Satan Hell was created for Satan; not for human beings. But the sin-contaminated nature we all are born with ties us to Satan, and so Satan's destiny (hell) will be our destiny, -- unless we break this connection, and get right with God. Our main problem: Our problem is that Satan's ideas appeal to our sinful nature; we love sin and we have an inborn enmity toward God. God, our Creator describes us in Romans 3:10-18 "There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one. Their throats are open graves; their tongues practice deceit. The poison of vipers is on their lips. Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness. Their feet are swift to shed blood; ruin and misery mark their ways, and the way of peace they do not know. 18"There is no fear of God before their eyes." So bad is God's diagnosis of us! Is there a way back to God? Some of us would like to make right with God, but there is one big problem; a problem that seems to be unsolvable and insurmountable, and this is the sin barrier that separates us from our God, and prevents us from returning to God. We are unable to keep God's laws, and since the Bible teaches that the "wages of sin is death.." sin is our death sentence. Sin is so deep seated in us, and we are so pulled and attracted by sin, that we are unable to live a life that would be pleasing to God; thus sin keeps us far from God, and so, the relationship cannot be restored. Sin led us into this dead end street; on our own we are unable to make it back to God, and that means that we are lost for all eternity, -- unless some miracle saves us. What are God's terms of reconciliation? To be reconciled with God on God's terms would only be possible if by some miraculous way a new nature could be implanted into the human soul; a nature that hates sin and wants to obey God. The other thing that would be needed is, that God would have to forgive sins without imposing the death sentence on the sinner. But since God's creation is built on physical, spiritual and moral laws, that is an impossibility, because sin is the seed of death, thus sin eventuates in death. God's Plan of Redemption To deal with these humanly unsolvable problems God designed a Plan; the Plan of Redemption for those lost sinners who want to brake away from Satan and get right with God; and want to obey God. This Plan is able to deliver every one of us, and save us and reconcile us (make peace) with God. The work of separation God wants to separate a people for Himself; a people who repent their sins and want to follow God by their own free will. (Repentance is a change of heart that always demonstrates itself in a changed life). God wants a people for Himself, who choose God over Satan; God's ways over Satan's ways; who want to hate sin and obey, please and love God. To save these people from sin and hell; to help them make peace with God and to reinstate them to have connection with the Source of Life; and to give them eternal life was the mandate of God's Son; the Lord Jesus Christ. He accomplished this by coming to this world, living a sinless life, and then He died the death of every person who repented their sins and wanted to be reconciled with God. By His death Christ paid the penalty of their sins, so that they wouldn't have to die eternally. In exchange for their sins the Lord Jesus Christ gave them His own righteousness, and by the miracle of His Holy Spirit He implanted the divine nature into their hearts; the nature that now ties them to God. Thus God Himself provided everything that is necessary for us to be reconciled with God. This is why salvation is the free gift of God to a penitent person. The key, that opens the door to God's heart: He who hears God's call and responds to it realizes his own sinfulness in the contrast of God's Laws, through the convicting work of the Holy Spirit in his heart. By comparison he sees himself now as a lost sinner, worthy of hell. He realizes that he is unable to comply with God's Laws, and this realization brings him to repentance. He asks God to have mercy on him and save him from sin and lead him and help him to live a life that pleases God. God responds with open arms: This is exactly what God wants from us; this is what God is waiting for. It is written in the Bible that there is joy in heaven when one lost hell bound sinner turns back on that road, and starts out to make right with God. What happens when a person repents to Christ? The Lord Jesus Christ accepts this person, --forgives his sins; declares him righteous and gives him a new nature; the divine nature. This is the miracle of the new birth. The person who was "dead in sin" now is forgiven. God's Holy Spirit enters into his heart and takes residence there to guide him and comfort him to encourage him and lead him on the way to heaven. The repentant sinner accepts all that by faith. All is well now This is how the effects of the Fall can be reversed, and the relationship with God can be reestablished. Now this remorseful sinner returned to God, and he got reconnected with God (through the implanted divine nature) Who is the Source of Life; now he is alive in Christ and he is a new creation in Christ. He became God's saved and beloved child. Until now he was tied to Satan by his sinful nature, and he was on his way to hell, but now he is tied to God by the divine nature, and he is heaven bound. The sin barrier that separated him from God had disappeared; in God's eyes he is sinless now. He crossed over from Satan's side to God's side when he took advantage of Christ's substitute death on his behalf, and accepted it by faith. So much of Himself our Creator has given to us, that we have free will to choose our eternal destiny. The first Adam, and the second Adam: The Bible calls the Lord Jesus Christ the 'second Adam.' ( 1 Cor. 15:45) ) From the first Adam we all inherited the sin-nature that separates us from God and leads us to hell, but trusting in the saving Blood of the second Adam (Christ) we can have peace with God and have eternal life with God. Can everybody be saved by Christ? The Lord Jesus Christ calls everybody to repentance; everyone may come, and those who come, Christ will save them. Christ came "..to save that which was lost.." (Matthew 18:11) Some of Christ's great invitations from the Bible: "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest." (Matthew 11:28) ) "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me." (Matthew 16:24) "...let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." (Rev. 22:17) Warning: Everybody has to make this deal with Christ personally. Salvation is not automatic, one has to claim it. Christ is willing to be the Saviour of those who go to Him repentantly and ask Christ to save them. But remember, Christ will not be one's Saviour unless He is also invited to be the Lord and Leader in one's life. When one is saved, sin must be left behind; God accepts sinners, but never together with their sins. Salvation is free, it is by faith alone, and yet unless one gives his whole heart to Christ, and unless one has an earnest desire and intention to follow Christ and to obey Christ, Christ cannot save him. Only a few... Those who are saved by Christ will have eternal life, and those who choose to stay on Satan's side, and follow their sinful nature's desires will arrive to Satan's fate, which is hell. This is what the Bible teaches. The Lord Jesus Christ calls us all: "13"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." Only a few! Where will you going to spend eternity? Here are the Scriptures from the Bible, on which the above is based: Luke 13:3b "..except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.." Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 5:8 "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 10:9-10

If the indwelling Holy Spirit tells something personally me to do, ------ that I want to do.

Thank you to all. But why humstring, - why not kill the horses?