TomPJr

VERY TRUE

Awsome Post... I agree 100% I'm sure someone will say who are you to judge Gods will sinfull or wicked? or they'll say our spirits live on.... Our Spirit will return to God at our Death, but not as a consoius being, but simply as Gods Breath, or (Life Giving Force). Spirit(Breath of Life) + Body(Dust) = Living Soul(Living Being or Creature) If I Gave you a table, and you took out all the nails, you would no longer have a table....Where'd it go? You still have nails, and you still have a pile of wood, but the table ceases to exist. It's the same for us...if the Spirit is seperated from the body, the living Soul ceases to exist and all is left is the lifeless corpse and the Spirit(Gods Life Giving Force) which goes back to God who gave it.

Great Post! Heres some more... 1Ti 6:14 That thou keepe this commandement without spot, vnrebukeable, vntill the appearing of our Lord Iesus Christ. 1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed, and onely Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords: 1Ti 6:16 Who onely hath immortalitie, dwelling in the light, which no man can approch vnto, whom no man hath seene, nor can see: to whom be honour and power euerlasting. Amen.

Great post!..... I hope people realize that it includes all ten of Gods commandments.

Yes. Exactly. (to the first questions, not your last statement) It's etrnal punishment not punishing. The punishment or results last forever, not the punishing.

Look who's talking about complacency! You think that God is unable to preserve His Wortd ot us? you think that He cannot see to it that the translators whose responsibility under God was to make the Word available to the world were not commandeered by the Holy Spirit? My, how you limit the God of the universe! That is complacency and laziness of faith if I ever heard it. What I teach? No--what God tells us! Where did I say destroyed doesn't mean destoyed, etc? I know words very well, and have studied myself, thank you. It should give you pause and even fear to note that you are opposing many Christians here! Sounds also like you are relying on independent study and perception, which is a dangerous folly. If you are receiving teaching along these lines, then you are being led astray. The bible does not contradict itself--YOU contradict it! I don't ignore any part of what God has said to us, and I resent your inference that I do. It is you who is ignoring the plain truth and embracing what your mind conjures up as a convenient truth...a lie, because your sensibilities cannot grasp that God means business---forever and ever. Your gray matter is acting as a contradiction, refusing to accept on faith what the Word clearly tells us. The mind is a terrible thing to waste---forever. FloatingAxe, Are you blind? Of course God can preserve his word. I don't limit God at all. But I do know that there is a warning in Revelation to any one who would change the scriptures. Why would he say that unless somebody would do such a thing? The other point is that There are so many different translations of the original sccriptures(different modern bibles). Are they all inspired? The original scriptures did not change, but the new translations keep changing. That is where it takes study and perserverance to learn what the inspired writers were conveying. You seem to be getting very defensive and are being close minded and not hearing anything I am saying. I'm quite sure you will indeed take offense to the statement I just made. and I didn't say that the bible contradicts itself. The english translations in some areas say that the wicked will be destroyed, or they will perish, or they will be burned up. I don't know what dictionary you use, but as far as I can see, in plain English, that means they will be consumed, which is another word the bible uses. These words are quite opposite of living forever in torture. So according to your beliefs, these words I just stated don't really mean destroyed, burned up, consumed, etc.... ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` So if you believe that the the wicked will be burned forever then they will not literally perish, or be consumed or be burned up, or become ashes. So again I say that the bible does not contradict itself, just the english translations, and so it does take intense study. and no, I don't just study on my own, but I also am not led like a puppet following blindly what the world tries to brainwash me with either. Hey Guys! Peace. Let's discuss this peacefully without getting into an upheaval. Satan has a hay-day with division. Especially in the christian body. Looks like my thread took a little bit of a change in it's course. Now Tom, I was wondering.....Are these definitions out of the dictionary, as in webster...(?) or are they from the greek/ hebrew dictionary? I couldn't help but notice you put up two other men's defintions of some words (AJ Balfour & also Thomas Hood). God is in favor of all of us knowing interpretations....and I want to be able to do the same also. I am looking more into this, but my understanding of the concept of "perish" would be leaving this world and spending eternity in hell--forever...what I recall is that those who chose not to follow christ and reject the salvation of the Lord would indeed be separated "forever" from God the Father. And being separated from God the Father would be complete torment in itself, in a literal place called hell, forever. Maybe you could establish your thoughts and definitions a little better so we can understand where your insights are coming from exactly. I think what I am gathering is you are taken with the definitions of these bible scholars have given...? Is that correct? Just trying to get a better understanding. Thanks, Girl Hi Girl, Yes, the definitions for perish, and destroyed, etc... are our english translations. the point that I was making is that Floating Axe said that the translators translated correctly every aspect. If thats the case you can't change destroyed, or perish, or to be burned up to be anything less than that. If the translators translated everything correctly, then there would be no appearent contradictions. another point is that we can't just take the english translation verbatum.....either burned up, destroyed, consumed, perish, to be no more, etc... mean something else or the term eternal punishment means something else. can't you see how the english translation of these terms are in opposition to eachother? burned up vs. tortured forever/ consumed vs. tortured forever/ turned to ashes vs. tortured forever Does this make sense to you?

TomPJr........................did you read this???? yes Well, guess I feel special now! YOU ARE SPECIAL BECKY! by the way...My favorite state is Tennessee....and I like todraw and paint too.... in case others are wondering why I said that, I viewed your profile.

TomPJr........................did you read this???? yes

That's a cop-out. And perhaps evidence to the fact that you don't truly believe that the Bible is the complete Word of God. it's not hard to see, if that's the case, why you are so strongly led by false doctrines. That's interesting, considering the fact that most of the persons who have dedicated themselves to the translation and study of God's Word - the ones whom many have spent years of their lives to this effort - have all arrived at conclusions which are opposite yours. Are you saying that they are wrong and you are right? What do you say to the parts of the bible that contradict eachother? Where it says in one place the wicked will be destroyed, and thet the wicked will perish, or that they will be burnt up as opposed to being burned forever. Either there is contradiction or the translators chose poor words to convey the original meaning. You hold on to forever means forever, but disregard the meaning of destruction, or perish, or be burnt up. I don't believe that the bible contradicts itself....I just think that it takes careful study to see what the original writers were saying. much of it is plain. but, like FloatingAxe, you keep ignoring the parts that contradict what you believe and say that those words have been mis translated. So you must agree that the translators had some error. Remember Satan is a great deciever, and the majority will be lost. peace You're putting words in my mouth, Tom. Are you going to ignore my questions? what question? I believe that you can find the answer in my post. also read my post to F.A. Peace, Tom

Look who's talking about complacency! You think that God is unable to preserve His Wortd ot us? you think that He cannot see to it that the translators whose responsibility under God was to make the Word available to the world were not commandeered by the Holy Spirit? My, how you limit the God of the universe! That is complacency and laziness of faith if I ever heard it. What I teach? No--what God tells us! Where did I say destroyed doesn't mean destoyed, etc? I know words very well, and have studied myself, thank you. It should give you pause and even fear to note that you are opposing many Christians here! Sounds also like you are relying on independent study and perception, which is a dangerous folly. If you are receiving teaching along these lines, then you are being led astray. The bible does not contradict itself--YOU contradict it! I don't ignore any part of what God has said to us, and I resent your inference that I do. It is you who is ignoring the plain truth and embracing what your mind conjures up as a convenient truth...a lie, because your sensibilities cannot grasp that God means business---forever and ever. Your gray matter is acting as a contradiction, refusing to accept on faith what the Word clearly tells us. The mind is a terrible thing to waste---forever. FloatingAxe, Are you blind? Of course God can preserve his word. I don't limit God at all. But I do know that there is a warning in Revelation to any one who would change the scriptures. Why would he say that unless somebody would do such a thing? The other point is that There are so many different translations of the original sccriptures(different modern bibles). Are they all inspired? The original scriptures did not change, but the new translations keep changing. That is where it takes study and perserverance to learn what the inspired writers were conveying. You seem to be getting very defensive and are being close minded and not hearing anything I am saying. I'm quite sure you will indeed take offense to the statement I just made. and I didn't say that the bible contradicts itself. The english translations in some areas say that the wicked will be destroyed, or they will perish, or they will be burned up. I don't know what dictionary you use, but as far as I can see, in plain English, that means they will be consumed, which is another word the bible uses. These words are quite opposite of living forever in torture. So according to your beliefs, these words I just stated don't really mean destroyed, burned up, consumed, etc.... I'm don't have fear that many or even the majority of Christians here oppose me....Just because the majority believe something doesn't make it right. de

That's a cop-out. And perhaps evidence to the fact that you don't truly believe that the Bible is the complete Word of God. it's not hard to see, if that's the case, why you are so strongly led by false doctrines. That's interesting, considering the fact that most of the persons who have dedicated themselves to the translation and study of God's Word - the ones whom many have spent years of their lives to this effort - have all arrived at conclusions which are opposite yours. Are you saying that they are wrong and you are right? What do you say to the parts of the bible that contradict eachother? Where it says in one place the wicked will be destroyed, and thet the wicked will perish, or that they will be burnt up as opposed to being burned forever. Either there is contradiction or the translators chose poor words to convey the original meaning. You hold on to forever means forever, but disregard the meaning of destruction, or perish, or be burnt up. I don't believe that the bible contradicts itself....I just think that it takes careful study to see what the original writers were saying. much of it is plain. but, like FloatingAxe, you keep ignoring the parts that contradict what you believe and say that those words have been mis translated. So you must agree that the translators had some error. Remember Satan is a great deciever, and the majority will be lost. peace

God certainly has the power, and the right to do such a thing, but he is also fair and just. Justice requires correction, and or punishment, but the punishment will fit the crime. It's not about questioning Gods ways, but aknowledging his Character. It just doesn't make sense, and when we study and understand what the bible says, we see that God is ultimately going to destroy the wicked, not torure them forever. They are punished, not tortured endlessly. The bible is clear that they will be burnt up and they will be no more.

I am not deceived. I trust what the bible tells me about forever. I don't concern myself with thoughts of a cruel or inhumane God. I take Him at His word. I know that God is just. He created Hell for Satan and his entourage. People will sadly be included. As man has an eternal component to his makeup, and as demons, spiritual and eternal beings also, they will all "live" a living death--eternally, separated from God. Conversely, we who love God and have responded to His call to His forever family, will live forever WITH Him, never separated by sin again! I don't have any ideas of my own to prove. It is the Word of God spoken over and over again. I am glad to see that you want to view things from all sides. A good practice, but be careful that you don't become lop-sided by over-analyzation. God's Word is not all that difficult to understand. It's man who complicates things, becoming too intellectual for his own good. The truth of God is simple enough for a child to understand. Some of the difficult passages are worthy of study and discussion to discover some deeper meaning, but to quibble about the meaning of the word, "forever" and its concept is really quite odd to me, and I am sure, to others as well. I'm glad that you trust the bible. but remember that the bible was not written in English and although the writers were inspired by God, the translators weren't. The definition of a word can make a lot of difference. If someone doesn't think so I think they are just complacent or lazy. I've given much evidence in past posts that contradict what you teach, and say the opposite of what you teach, but all you have to say about them is that I am wrong. You say destroyed doesn't mean destroyed, perish doesn't mean perish, death doesn't mean death, burnt up doesn't mean burnt up, to be no more doesn't mean that, etc.... It sounds like you don't agree with the english translation of certain words that you choose either. The difference between you an I is that I study the origin of the words, and compare their usages and context, whereas you twist the words to say what you already believe. you leave the ones alone that are misenterpreted and change the ones that are fine.

I do not assume. You can accuse me of deception, but you are being led by the deciever if you think God will torture people forever. If I were to assume the meaning of forever, then I would assume the meaning the same way you do. I rather have done many comparitive studies on the usage of forever and the original words translated forever. It is the preconcieved understanding of what forever means in our English language that leads people to assume what you believe. You can assume all you want, and accuse me of deception, but that doesn't make you right. If you are decieved and read the bible, only looking to prove your own ideas, then you will not see the truth even when it is shown to you. The bible says come now lets reason together.... I always weigh the evidence....If I am wrong, I am willing to be corrected, it's happened before. I used to believe the way you do. I don't mean to sound so offensive, I am just telling you what I think. I am very humble, and know that I don't know everything. I like to view all sides, and see where all sides are coming from to weigh the evidence. I base my conclusions on that rather than just sticking to what I already think I know, pridefully not willing to be shown my error. May the Holy Spirit Guide you, Tom

That depends on where your heart is.... I believe that only God knows the answer to that.

Here is some info that I agree with that I got from a free online library by Pastr Doug Batchelor... Not Left Behind Another common misconception contained in the secret rapture theory is that people will continue to live here on earth for several years after Christ's return. However, the Bible clearly teaches that when Jesus comes next, there will be no one left alive on this planet. For example, in his prophecy about the end of the age, Jeremiah wrote:"I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. I beheld, and lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I beheld, and lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by his fierce anger: (Jeremiah 4:23-26, emphasis added). In another place he declared,"And the slain of the Lord shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: They shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground: (Jeremiah 25:33) The prophet Isaiah describes the same dismal conditions in his prophecy of the state of the earth following the second coming. "Behold, the Lord maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth aboad the inhabitants thereof." "The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled:for the Lord hath spoken this word: (Isaiah 24:1,3, emphasis added). Last but not least, consider the following passage of Scripture:"And as it was in the days of Noe [Greek for 'Noah'], so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed:" (Luke 17:26-30, emphasis added). Notice that the wicked were detroyed on the same day that the Flood came to Noah and on the same day that the fire came to Sodom. Jesus emphasizes at both the beginning and the end of this passage that these earlier judgments, which destroyed all of the wicked, were examples of what would happen at His second coming. The Bible is crystal clear that life on earth does not continue for either man or beast after Jesus comes. Through the Tribulation With Christ The idea that the righteous will all be raptured out of the world just before the time of trouble and that only the wicked will be left behind to endure seven years of tribulation can be very appealing. Perhaps that is why this doctrine has gained such widestred acceptance. But the Bible clearly teaches otherwise. The phrase "seven years of tribulation" does not appear anywhere in Scripture. However, Jesus did say that a terrible time of trouble would come upon the world just before His return and that it would be more intense than any other in the history of this world. In His great prophetic discourse on the Mount of Olives, Jesus made the following statement: "For then shall be great tribulation,such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect"s sake those days shall be shortened: (Matthew 24:21-22). If the elect were not in the world during the great tribulation, they would not need the days to be shortened! All throughout Scripture we see examples of the Lord saving His people though tribulation, not from it. Noah was not saved from the Flood, but through it. Daniel was not saved from the lions' den, but through it. Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were not were not saved from the fiery furnace, but through it. In fact, Jesus went through it with them, and He will go through the great tribulation with us, as well! The children of Israel were not saved from Egypt before the plagues fell, but afterward. God demonstrated His love and power by preserving them in Egypt through the 10 plagues. In the same way, the righteous will be in the world when the seven last plagues fall (revelation chapter 16), but God will preserve them. God never promises that our lives will always be easy. Christ prayed to His Father for His disciples, "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil [one]" (John 17:15). Likewise, in 2 Timothy 3:12 Paul states, "All that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution." Paul also told a group of disciples that "We must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God" (Acts 14:22). In His parable of the two home builders, Jesus taught that the storm comes to the wise man who builds on the rock just as surely as it comes to the fool who builds upon the sand (Matthew 7:24-27). The storm will come to all. The good news is that God's children will survive the coming tribulation. They will endure by practicing some of the same survival skills used by the Great Basin bristlecone pine. Believed to be one of the oldest living trees on the planet, it can live more than 4,000 years. Found on lonely mountaintops, some of these ancient evergreens have weathered thousands of years of intense freezing wind, pounding rain, scorching sun, and violent electrical storms. How do they manage to survive such harsh, adverse conditions? They send their roots deep, wrap them tenaciously around a solid rock, and hang on. In the same way, the saints will have to sink their roots of faith deep into the Word of God and cling tenaciously to the mighty Rock of Ages. Remember that even though God does not always provide an escape from tribulation, He does promise to give us the power and strength to get through it. "I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me" (Philippians 4:13) Times of Trouble As we discuss the great tribulation to take place just before Jesus returns, keep in mind that there have been several other "times of trouble" for God's people in the past. For example, the children of Israel endured 400 years of tribulation just before the Exodus (Acts 7:6). The early Christians also passed through a time of trouble immediately after the stoning of Stephen (Acts 8:1). From A.D. 303-313,during the era represented by the Smyrna church (Revelation 2:10), God's people suffered a 10-year period of tribulation. But perhaps the most notable time of trouble was the 1,260 years of intense persecution waged against true Christians during the Dark Ages. "And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days." "And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child" (Revelation 12: 6,13). As dark as each of these times was for God's people none will compare with the final, great tribulation that is yet to take place. The great tribulation corresponds with the time during which the seven last plagues of Revelation chapter 16 will "fall. "And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God" (Revelation 15:1). God's wrath will be directed against the ones who disobey His law, distort His truth, and oppress His people. "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness " (Romans 1:18). The great tribulation also coincides with the Battle of Armageddon. Both take place immediately before Christ's second coming. "And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done:(Revelation 16:16-17). It is my belief that the great time of trouble will last only a month or two. Here are a few Scriptures that indicate it will be a short period of time. Revelation 18:8 tells us, "Therefore shall her plagues come in one day." A "day" in Bible prophecy represents one literal year (Ezekiel 4:6;Numbers 14:34;Luke 13:32). So when Revelation says that "her plagues come in one day," it means within, or less than, one year's time. Furthermore, the very nature of the seven last plagues-the rivers and seas turning to blood and the planet being scorched with great heat- would render it impossible for the human race to survive more than a month or two. This is why Jesus said, "And unless those days were shorened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened" (Matthew 24:22, NKJV). Just Before the Plagues Since the experience of the children of Israel just before the plagues fell on Egypt is a type, or symbol, of what will happen to God's people before the seven last plagues described in Revelation chapter 16, let's examine that story more closely. After 400 years of slavery, the Israelites had become influenced by the religion of Egypt and had lost sight of God's law. So before Moses and Aaron met with the Pharaoh, they first met with the leaders of Israel to encourage a revival of commitment to God's law-including the Sabbath of creation (Exodus 4:29-31). The people responded wholeheartedly, which is why the Pharaoh got angry and said to Moses and Aaron, "You make them rest from their labor!" (Exodus 5:5, NKJV). Remember that the children of Israel knew the Sabbath was part of God's law before they ever came to Mount Sinai (Exodus 16:22-28). Likewise, before the onset of the great tribulation, special attention will once again be called to the subject of worship and the Sabbath commandment. In Revelation 14:7, an angel calls God's people to "worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters." The angel is clearly quoting from the Sabbath commandment, which says, "For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day" (Exodus 20:11). A widespread rediscovery of the law of God, including the Sabbath truth, will be the alarm that wakes the dragon to fury. The devil hates the Sabbath because he knows that all love relationships are built upon time. If he can destroy the day that was set apart for God's people to spend quality time with their Creator, he can destroy the relationship. We see this happen over and over again between husbands and wives or between fathers and sons. If two people stop spending quality time together, soon the relationship will fall apart. When the children of Israel responded to God's call to keep the seventh-day Sabbath holy, the Pharaoh became furious. He knew that as long as the people focused only on work, work, work, they would have no time to think about freedom. The devil is using the very same strategy today. His goal is to keep people so busy with work and so preoccupied with the cares of this life that they have no time to worship their Creator. He knows that if he can cause people to neglect the Sabbath rest, they will never have time to think seriously of salvation. Looking down through history to the end of time, the Lord knew that His faithful people would keep the Sabbath of the fourth commandment. That is why, in connection with the tribulation, Jesus advises His followers to "pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day" (Matthew 24:20). Another way in which this small time of trouble will resemble the period of time just before the plagues fell on Egypt is that God's people will be called upon to endure a period of bitter hardship. In Moses' day, the angry Pharaoh tried to turn the hearts of his Israelite slaves against their God by forcing them to produce the usual quota of bricks without providing the necessary straw. In the same way, before the tribulation the government will use political and economic sanctions to pressure God's end-time people into re- ceiving the mark of the beast. During this time the saints will be called upon to share their faith in the face of stiff social, political, and religious opposition. "And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name" (Revelation 13:17). When this fails to deter the people of God from obedience, there will be a final death decree. The Bible says, " And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed" (Revelation 13:15). At this time, the great tribulation begins and the seven last plagues start to fall. The time of trouble begins with the wrath of the devil against God's obedient children (Revelation 12:17) and ends with the wrath of God against the ones who obey the beast (Revelation 14:9-10). No Second Chance The main reason this last period of time will be so intense is because it will come after probation closes for the lost. God gave the very first prophecy about it to His servant Daniel, who wrote, "At that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book" (Daniel 12:1). Notice that when the great tribulation begins, the cases of all people will have been forever decided. The door of salvation and grace will close for the world-just as the door on the ark closed seven days before the Flood began. At that time Jesus will declare, "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give to every man according as his work shall be" (Revelation 22:11-12). For the first time in the world's history, God's Spirit will be completely withdrawn from the lost. The unsaved will be given wholly over to demonic control. The saved will be forever sealed and the lost forever lost. No more changing teams! God on Trial If no one is converted by the plagues, then why does the Lord allow them? For thousands of years God's Spirit has worked in the hearts of men. But He has warned that this would not always be so (Genesis 6:3). Satan must have an opportunity to demonstrate what a world that is completely under his power would be like. And so God will finally allow the winds of strife to blow unhindered-but not before His servants are sealed (Revelation 7:1-3). The great tribulation will prove to the universe that nothing-not even the worst conditions in the history of the world-would change the characters of those still alive upon the earth. God's people will trust Him no matter what, and His enemies will rebel agaist Him no matter what. Sometimes adversity brings a lost soul to repentance, but as the seven last plagues are being poured out, the wicked will reveal that there are no longer any redeemable threads in their fabric. The following three verses prove this point: "The fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire. And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues; and they repented not to give him glory" (Revelation 16:8-9). "They blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and did not repent of their deeds" (Revelation 16:11, NKJV). "Men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great" (Revelation 16:21). No Need to Fear Perhaps your picture of the great tribulation has always resembled this terrifying recipe: "Pour the entire contents of Armageddon into a pressure cooker, then slowly mix in the seven last plagues with one full bottle of Jacob's trouble and one whole crushed Babylon. Next, evenly stir in two full boxes of wrath-one from God and one from Satan. Cover securely and cook on high." We all seem to conjure up frightening images when we think of the coming tribulation. Do yourself a favor; try this instead. Picture Jesus in a fragile little boat on a dark sea, with the waves mounting and wind roaring. Mark 4:38-40 records the scene: "He was in the hinder part of the ship, asleep on a pillow: and they awake him, and say unto him, Master, carest thou not that we perish? And he arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, Peace, be still. And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm." Then Christ said to them, "Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith?" Jesus rested with the peace of a baby because He lived by faith in His heavenly Father. One message He delivered repeatedly throughout His ministry was "Fear not." In John 16:33, Jesus said, "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." God does not want us to live by fear, but rather by faith. "There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love" (1 John 4:18). During the world's darkest hour and greatest trial, God will supply the greatest peace and faith. We need only to remember that Jesus is in the boat with us. Though the furnace be heated seven times over, we can pass safely through it if Jesus is at our side. The ninety-first Psalm contains special promises for those living during the last great tribulation. It says, "You shall not be afraid of the terror by night, Nor of the arrow that flies by day, Nor of the pestilence that walks in darkness, Nor of the destruction that lays waste at noonday. A thousand may fall at your side, And ten thousand at your right hand; But it shall not come near you. Only with your eyes shall you look, And see the reward of the wicked" (Psalm 91:5-8, NKJV). The Psalmist makes it clear we will be in the midst of the world during the plagues, yet remain untouched, if God is our refuge. "No evil shall befall you, Nor shall any plague come near your dwelling" (Psalm 91:10, NKJV). I hope this helps...

I praise you for wanting to stick with what the bible says... we need to know what the intension of the writers though. when you compare the original language used in the bible, we see that the term forever does not mean forever in our english, but rather it means as long as an age may last. Jonah was in the belly of the fish "forever", literally three days. this is only one of many examples....don't take my word for it though, do a study on the original words for forever, and compare them with the rest of scripture. There is much scripture that indicates total anhilation and destruction of the wicked. The bible says that they will perish, become non-existant. It says they will be burned up, not keep burning. the texts that seem to say that they will keep burning endlessly have been mistranslated....either that or there is contradiction, and I believe that there is no contradiction in scripture, just mis-translation. another example is that Soddom and Gamorrah suffered,(past tense) the vengence of Hell Fire and Brimestone. the bible says that there smoke ascended forever. Well they are not still burning now! The original word for "forever" here meant until the end of the age; the age being the time that they were being consumed by fire. They were consumed, just as the wicked will be at the end of the world. The term forever means that it will not cease until whatever it is talking about is finished, in this case the burning. Once they were burned up the fire went out. They were burned with an un-quenchable fire....that doesn't mean that it never went out or will never go out, but rather that it will not be able to be extinguished until it runs its course. like I said don't take my word for it....Study with earnest prayer, and ask the Holy Spirit to guide you and show you the truth even if it means you may learn you have been decieved. we need to compare all the scripture in the right contexts... God bless you, Tom

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a[a] thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. No, they cannot be for those who lived the first resurrection will not suffer a second death..those who are deceived must be those who choose Satan before first resurrection, their deception must be complete at the end of the thousand year reign and they are the millions that surround the "camp of the saints and the beloved city" those that chose Satan and the mark will then suffer the second death. They will burn for eternity.. So no, they could not be any of us because the second death has no power over us for we have experienced the first resurrection AMEN jackie I wish people would get their perception of God right! that post was right in many points, but God will not burn people for eternity! He is much more humane than us. They will be burned up, and their destruction will last for eternity, but not the destroying or the punishing. It is eternal punishment, not eternal punishing. Once they're burned up, they will be gone. They will perish. They will be destroyed. God is not that cruel to burn and torture people forever and ever and ever and ever etc...... We serve a loving and merciful God. No, sir. His wrath is fierce and burns hot. Eternal separation from God is an eternal perishing. Do you have children? If you do, what would you do if they rebelled against you? depending on the severety, you might take away priveledges or ultimately disown them.... but in your love for them I'm certain that you wouldn't torture them, or beat them endlessly.....would you? God does take vengeance, but he is merciful and just, and is far more humane than you or me.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a[a] thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. No, they cannot be for those who lived the first resurrection will not suffer a second death..those who are deceived must be those who choose Satan before first resurrection, their deception must be complete at the end of the thousand year reign and they are the millions that surround the "camp of the saints and the beloved city" those that chose Satan and the mark will then suffer the second death. They will burn for eternity.. So no, they could not be any of us because the second death has no power over us for we have experienced the first resurrection AMEN jackie I wish people would get their perception of God right! that post was right in many points, but God will not burn people for eternity! He is much more humane than us. They will be burned up, and their destruction will last for eternity, but not the destroying or the punishing. It is eternal punishment, not eternal punishing. Once they're burned up, they will be gone. They will perish. They will be destroyed. God is not that cruel to burn and torture people forever and ever and ever and ever etc...... We serve a loving and merciful God.