Vickilynn

Shalom GymRose, Just so you know, this isn't a debate that anyone is seeking to "win". Quite simply, a sister in the L-rd asked a sincere question and SOME of us are answering her. So, no winning or losing or giving up. Asking a question and people answering their beliefs. That's what we do on a discussion board - discuss.

Shalom, "Don

Shalom Artsy, How about them? WHICH verses are you referring to and how are you applying them to the tattoo question on whether it is sinful or not? What? There is "wiggle room" in G-d's commands? Really? Which ones are we to "wiggle" on? Adultery? Stealing? Murder? And since when does this have anything to so with 'reaching the lost'? What are you saying? That Christians should go out and get tattooed so we can reach the lost? That's pretty ridiculous to me. That's like saying Christians should go out and get drunk to reach the lost. I don't know where you're going with your "smuggling bible" and such arguments, but IMHO, they have nothing to do with the OP's question of whether tattooing is a sin.

I've noticed, although I gave you a lot of time, and asked many times, you decided against addressing these verses (in their context of course). Shalom Artsy, You have YET to post any Scriptures (IN CONTEXT) that deal with this issue. When you do, they will be responded to.

Shalom Butero, You raise some very good points for prayer. I think that anyone who is considering getting a tattoo would prayerfully consider the points you raise. I also appreciate you saying that you understand you could be wrong on this issue, but in your zeal and desire to please the L-rd and not violate His Word, it is more honorable to err on the side of caution and not do something that would be regretted later if one discovered tattooing WAS as sin. Since tattooing is permanent, they are not easily undone. It is better then to prayerfully consider NOT getting one and not violating G-d's Word than doing it and tryiung to undo it later.

Am I interpreting this incorrectly? Shalom 4Given, You are about some things, but Paul wasn't talking about things G-d already said was wrong. G-d never says sin is lawful. So, there are some things that are not included in the "all things" that are lawful, because some things are not. Paul was talking about food offered to idols here, and while the application does work with other things of conviction, it doesn't work with things G-d clearly says are wrong. And I believe the context shows when we go to the next verse: 24 Let no one seek his own good, but the good of his neighbor. This is where the convictions differ. Some people believe tattoos are personal conviction, some people believe they are spoken against specifically in Scripture and therefore are unlawful. EITHER WAY, this verse says that we should consider others aboue ourselves and perhaps that might affect our decisions to get w tattoo. IOW, it's not about us.

Please, yes, do so in context. Shalom Artsy, Dear, you are the one asking that question, not me.

Shalom Butero, Would you please dialogue with me about this topic? I am of the belief that the Scriptures in Leviticus refer to ONLY marking one's body for the dead, as in a memorial or as in what they were doing in that day. I have trouble understanding that if, say, my daughter, decided to get a tattoo that was a witness for Jesus, that this would be a sin unto G-d as I don't see that would be in violation of Leviticus, since it was not a marking FOR the dead. Can you please explain this to me?

Shalom, And THIS comment from someone calling other people spiritually "immature"? Right.

Shalom, Butero has presented Scriptures for his position and WHY he believes they say that a tattoo is a sin. That is what was asked in this thread by the OP. I appreciate Butero's clear, firm stand on the Scriptures and for those reading, his explanations of WHY he believes they apply to this topic. This is what discussion is all about!

What do these mean to you? Please, no beating around the bush. Shalom Artsy, I take Scriptures IN CONTEXT and consider the full impact of the Scriptures. I don't take some words here and there and try to make a doctrine out of them. If you'd like to discuss Scriptures and proper hermeneutics pertaining to this topic, great. However, tossing a few words out and not considering the context or entire meaning and trying to make them fit your position is not something I consider worthwhile responding to. You want to talk Scripture? Then, we need to look at Scripture in context and correctly examine the meaning and application.

Thank you Vickilynn for clarifying what I was trying to do. We had a question asked by someone who sincerly desired to know if it was sinful and wrong to get a tattoo. All of this back and forth firestorm came as a result of my giving my opinion in this post. It seems as though there are some here at WB that don't like it if someone has a differing opinion than their own. Shalom Butero, Yes, I know. And then they turn around and call someone else "spiritually immature" when what they are doing is most immature, both spiritually and emotionally. I think we should simply go on with the discussion and ignore the side argument of the validity of this discussion.

Shalom Artsy, I'm sorry, but you're very wrong. And you are not in a position to judge his heart. You can't speak for our brother. Wrong again. False assumption based on your own perception and projection. Not even remotely related to anything our brother said. Again, wrongly judging someone's heart is pretty serious. I think you should consider that more than the tattoo question. Since you don't own this board, you are not a Moderator and you are not even the OP, I guess it's not your call as to what we talk about. You are being very rude to the OP who DID think it important enough to ask about. As for growing up, well Artsy, I'd say you should follow your own advice. You are wasting everyone's time in this thread arguing whether we should talk about it. Since you care about important things so much, please stop hijacking this thread. False. That is NOT what the Scriptures say. Please read what I posted in Romans 14. It explains it very clearly and it is not what you define. Butero is not judging anyone. The only one doing that is you dear. The "weaker brother" is not the one who stands on Scriptural convictions. The spiritually immature is the one calling names, judging hearts and getting all worked up because someone holds differing views than themselves. THAT is spiritually immature Artsy. Yes, please, go ahead. It takes a spiritually mature person to stand firm in their convictions and not attack others who hold differing ones. Let's see some maturity and "growing up." from your end. You are so busy pointing a finger, you can't see the 4 pointing back at you. Feel free to skip this topic if it is not important to you. As I said before, you don't have the right to determine what other people talk about on this board. And you are being very inconsiderate to the OP and the people here who DO wish to discuss this. That is not your right. Yes, please do.

Shalom,

I thought you were done with this unimportant debate Artsylady? :whistling:

Shalom Artsy, No ma'am, that is twisting what has been said here and what the Scriptures say. #1. Butero never said he is stumbling over someone's tattoos. #2. Butero never said he is offended by someone's tattoo. #3. Butero never said he is judging someone's salvation according to whether they have a tattoo. #5. Butero is posting his Scriptural beliefs in answer to the OP's question, as YOU are, and he has that right. You do not have the right to judge him. #6. Butero believes *according to the Scriptures and his understanding of them* that tattoos are sinful. THAT is not the Scriptural definition of a "weaker brother." #7. You have no right Scripturally to criticize and judge him and his heart and walk for those beliefs. #8. You are getting your knickers in a knot because someone holds differing beliefs than yourself. And then you have the chutzpah to cal HIM spiritually immature. You are incorrect and in fact, getting all worked up, calling people names and judging their heart shows spiritual immaturity. What Butero has done is to post and stand firm on his Scriptural beliefs. THAT is what we are to do Artsy. Please read these verses: THAT takes spiritual maturity. Criticizing someone for doing the above shows that they do not know or respect Scripture. Consider how we are to treat the "weaker brother". With disdain, judgment and criticism? NO. We are to humbly and in love assess OUR OWN actions and see if we are a stumbling block to our weaker brother.

Shalom, Really? Can you show me Scripture for that. I don't see anything remotely like that in the Scriptures.

Shalom Lorax, Nope. Even if tattoos ARE sinful, Jesus can and will forgive us our sins.

Shalom Artsy, When someone resorts to attacking people they don't know simply because their beliefs differ and then have the chutzpah to call THEM the weaker brother, dear, something is wrong with that theology. If you are getting frustrated by this discussion, then perhaps it's time for you to step back. Just a thought. NO reason to get your knickers in a knot over people sharing their Scriptural beliefs, even if they do differ from yours. If you don't consider it important, you are certainly welcome to skip it. However, perhaps others may consider the issue important and we must be considerate of them as well. As for milk and meat, I sincerely encourage you to look up the "meat" of the Word concerning extending GRACE to Believers for differing Biblical convictions.

Shalom Butero, LOL! exactly, spot on! Right.

Shalom Butero, Amen. You DO have every right, as does every other person here. If someone doesn't care about this topic, they can skip it.

Shalom Artsy, If you are getting frustrated by this discussion, then perhaps it's time for you to step back. Just a thought. NO reason to get your knickers in a knot over people sharing their Scriptural beliefs, even if they do differ from yours. If you don't consider it important, you are certainly welcome to skip it. However, perhaps others may consider the issue important and we must be considerate of them as well.

Shalom Artsy, Sorry, that's not what the Scriptures state we are to do. You just said it doesn't matter what we think, it only matters what G-d thinks. Right? And then you post something that is opposite of what G-d says. So, I believe we should treat those who stumble with the love, grace and respect that G-d commands. Romans 14 3Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. 4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. AND, we are not to knowingly cause another to stumble by our actions: 13 Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother. 14I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean. 15For if your brother is grieved by what you eat, you are no longer walking in love. By what you eat, do not destroy the one for whom Christ died. 16 So do not let what you regard as good be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and(Y) peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18Whoever thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men. 19So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding.

Shalom, Amen.

Shalom Butero, Amen! Gee, maybe I shoulda read all your posts before I posted saying the same thing as you! Thank you. Exactly.