Vickilynn

Shalom HisMindinme, Amen and amen. This is where it comes from! Good words.

Shalom, Again, no, homeschooling has NOTHING to do with this. There are private Christian schools that require uniforms and do not allow mixed sports activities. For the record, homeschoolers are not the only parents who "shelter" their children or who think highly of modest dress.

Shalom, Nothing. It is a personal family choice. One church we attended would not allow any "mixed swimming" and discouraged families from going to the public pool or beach for the reasons of modesty. It had nothing to do with homeschooling. A large Christian school, Bob Jones University has (or had) the same no mixed swimming rules. There are whole denominations that make that an issue. So again, it has nothing to do with homeschooling, but with purity and modesty. I personally believe it is wise in some cases.

Shalom Emily Anne, Here's the corrected link: Modest Swimsuit

Shalom, LOLOLOLOL!!!!

Shalom Wingwalker, This is SO GOOD!!!!!!!! I hope people get what you said for this the heart of the topic, the heart of the Scriptures and the heart of G-d. This is so important for people to see and it sums up everything on this topic. If we TRULY have our eyes on the L-rd and our heart full of love for our brothers, we will be careful not to dress in a way that tempts them or causes them to stumble. We will be humble and submitted to the Father and desire to please Him and one way is by loving others more than ourselves. We are not to be concerned about what others are wearing, but we ARE to be concerned about what WE are wearing.

Shalom Andrew, With all due respect, you are not the only participant in this thread with a view or opinion or right to post. The choice to close a thread is up to the Mods or the OP.

Shalom Kat, Bless your heart!!! May I answer your question with my journey? You see, some years ago, one of our 5 children (a 3 1/2 year old son) passed away suddenly one day, without warning. Both hubby and myself have been Christians a long time and while not perfect, truly sought to live for Messiah and raise our children in His ways. So, when our son died, I asked the same question you did. Did G-d DO this? Did G-d not only KNOW our son would die, but did G-d actually TAKE our son? After we left our son at the hospital where they pronounces him dead, I went home and wrestled with G-d. For almost 12-13 hours straight, I asked Him to explain how these terrible things could happen to one of His Own. Long story short, He took me gently to the Word and showed me His great love. He also showed me that in Him was no evil, nor did He have bad things in store for me. In fact, ALL He had was His love and good things for me. However, the Word also said that bad things happen to the just and the unjust because we live in a sinful, fallen world. And some things are brought about by our sin and some by other's sin and some by the fact that the world is in sin. Does G-d KNOW everything that will happen. Of course. Does G-d DO bad things to us? No. Does G-d allow trials in our lives at times? Yes. Can G-d use ANYTHING in our lives, even the terrible things and use them for His glory? Yes. I came away knowing that G-d was G-d, and I was not. His ways, His thoughts are so much higher than mine and there are things about Him that I will never fully comprehend in this life, but what I DO know, is that the Word is true and in the Word, He reveals to us that He loves us and desires good things for us. And that when trials come (and they will - to everyone saved or unsaved), He is there to go through them with us. He will never leave us not forsake us. Please, hold on to those things, what you know about G-d and trust in Him and His love.

Shalom Emily Anne, Do you sew at all? Do you like to wear skirts or jumpers? I don't sew, but as I'm losing weight I'm finding that I love to wear skirts rather than pants. I also love to wear dresses. I do most of my shopping at Goodwill and find some really great clothes there. The modest part is just making sure that nothing is showing

Shalom, More from the John Macarthur teaching: I. THE ATTITUDE OF WOMEN (v. 9b) "With godly fear and sobriety" A. Godly Fear The Greek word translated "godly fear" (aid[ma]os) refers to modesty mixed with humility. It connotes a sense of shame--not shame in being a woman, but in any way inciting lust or distracting others from a proper worship of God. A woman with a proper sense of shame will dress in such a way as not to be a source of temptation. Aid[ma]os implies morally rejecting anything dishonorable to God. This is the woman who would be so grieved over the possibility of offending God that she would never do anything that could cause anyone to stumble. B. Self-Control "Sobriety" (Gk. , s[ma]ophrosun[ma]e ) is better translated "self- control. " It has a sexual connotation in extrabiblical literature, where it speaks of totally controlling one's passions and desires. In The Republic Plato said it is one of the four cardinal virtues. 1. The danger of failing to exercise self-control a) To the leaders In 1 Timothy 3 Paul says that both elders and deacons in the church must be "the husband of one wife" (vv. 2, 12). That phrase can be literally translated as "a one-woman man. " A man in a leadership role in the church must be totally devoted to his wife. I believe one of the major problems at Ephesus was that the leaders were not faithful to their wives. Satan attacked the church by bringing alluring women into the church to seduce the leadership. He does the same thing today. b) To the congregations (1) At Ephesus In 1 Timothy 5:14 Paul stressed the importance of younger widows remarrying. He knew that a large number of single women with strong desire for marriage was a potential danger to the purity of the church. And that's true in our day too. (2) At Crete In Titus 2:4-5 Paul instructs Titus that older women are to teach young women "to be sober minded, to love their husbands, to love their children, to be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the Word of God be not blasphemed. " Instead of doing good, some women were causing problems in the congregation. (3) At Corinth In 1 Corinthians 5 Paul rebukes the Corinthians for tolerating a situation involving sexual sin. In fact, it was a form of sexual sin that was repulsive even to pagans: a man was having an affair with his father's wife (his stepmother). That was a form of incest. What was worse, instead of mourning over that sin, the Corinthians oddly enough were boasting about it (v. 2)! According to 1 Corinthians 6:13 they attempted to justify sexual sin by quoting what was perhaps a common Greek proverb: "Foods for the body and the body for foods. " That is to say sex, like eating, is merely a biological function, so why get upset about it? But Paul warned the Corinthians to flee from sexual sin (v. 18). There is little doubt in my mind that the problem concerning women with improper motives plagued the church at Corinth as well as the churches in Ephesus and Crete. 2. The judgment for failing to exercise self-control In Isaiah 3:16-26 God pronounces judgment on women who dressed to draw attention to themselves: "The Lord saith, Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet; therefore the Lord will smite with a scab the crown of the head of the daughters of Zion, and the Lord will uncover their secret parts. In that day the Lord will take away the bravery of their tinkling anklets, and their headbands, and their crescents like the moon, the pendants, and the bracelets, and the veils, the headdresses, and the armlets, and the sashes, and the perfume boxes, and the amulets, the rings, and nose rings, the festival robes, and the mantles, and the cloaks, and the handbags, the hand mirrors, and the linen wrappers, and the turbans, and the veils. And it shall come to pass, that instead of sweet fragrance there shall be rottenness; and instead of a girdle, a rope; and instead of well set hair, baldness; and instead of a robe, a girding of sackcloth; and branding instead of beauty. Thy men shall fall by the sword, and thy mighty in the war. And her gates shall lament and mourn; and she being desolate shall sit upon the ground. " To wear jewelry or expensive clothes is not evil, but to wear them for evil purposes is. Clothing that reflects impure motives has no place in the church.

Shalom Emily Anne, Amen. I agree with you. And your example of your own situation is so relevant to what we're seeing. Thank you for sharing. Titus 2: 3-5 3 Older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior, not slanderers or slaves to much wine. They are to teach what is good, 4and so train the young women to love their husbands and children, 5 to be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind, and submissive to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be reviled.

Shalom, This is an excerpt from an interesting study by John Macarthur: http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/sg54-14.htm 2. The meaning of "adorn" The Greek word kosme[ma]o means "to arrange" or "to put in order. " Paul is saying women should prepare themselves for worship. The Greek word translated "modest" (kosmios), the adjectival form of kosme[ma]o, means "well-ordered," or "well- arranged. " 3. The meaning of "apparel" The Greek word translated "apparel" in the King James Version does not refer only to clothing, but can mean "demeanor" or "attitude. " It encompasses a woman's total preparation for worship, involving both the attitude of the heart and proper adornment on the outside. Her clothing should reflect a heart focused on God. B. The Specific Problems Paul not only gives a general exhortation about women's appearance, but also deals with some specific issues that were problems in Ephesus. 1. Imitating their culture Several ancient writers have described what women were dressed like in the Roman culture of Paul's day, which no doubt influenced the church at Ephesus: a) Juvenal The writings of this first-century Roman satirical poet picture everyday life in the Roman Empire. In his sixth satire he described women who were preoccupied with their appearance: "There is nothing that a woman will not permit herself to do, nothing that she deems shameful, and when she encircles her neck with green emeralds and fastens huge pearls to her elongated ears, so important is the business of beautification; so numerous are the tiers and stories piled one another on her head! In the meantime she pays no attention to her husband!" b) Philo Philo was a Jewish Hellenistic philosopher of the first century. In his work The Sacrifices of Cain and Abel, he described a prostitute bedecked with a multitude of gold chains and bracelets as having her hair dressed in elaborate braids, her eyes marked with pencil lines, her eyebrows smothered in paint, and her expensive clothes embroidered lavishly with flowers (19-21). c) Pliny the Elder This first-century Roman historian told of Lollia Paulina, one-time wife of the Roman Emperor Caligula, who had a dress worth more than one million dollars by today's standards. It was covered from head to food with emeralds and pearls, and she carried with her the receipts proving its value (Natural History ix, 58). In contrast to Roman society, the mystery religions of Greece had very stringent rules about the appearance of women. One inscription that has been discovered illustrates their concern: "A consecrated woman shall not have gold ornaments, nor rouge, nor face whitening, nor a head-band, nor braided hair, nor shoes, except those made of felt or of the skins of sacrificed animals" (cited in William Barclay's The Letters to Timothy, Titus, and Philemon, rev. ed. [Philadelphia: Westminster, 1975], pp. 67-68). Both Paul and Timothy were concerned that the Ephesian church be a godly testimony to society. For the women of the church to imitate the gaudy clothing styles of pagan women, to call attention to themselves, or to dress to lure men into illicit sexual relationships was to blaspheme the intent of the worship service. 2. Flaunting their wealth In the first-century, poverty was widespread. A wealthy person could dress in a style that was impossible for a poor person to match, in contrast to today, where good clothing is relatively affordable for a large segment of Western society. A costly dress worn by a wealthy woman could cost up to 7,000 denarii (one denarius was a day's wage for the average laborer). When a wealthy woman entered the worship service wearing an expensive dress, she caused a sensation that would disrupt the entire service. In addition to expensive dresses, rich women would also display their wealth through elaborate hairdos with expensive jewelry woven into them. (That's what "braided hair" [v. 9] was to Paul. ) They would also wear gold rings and earrings, and hang gold on their sandals and dresses. It should be noted that the Bible does not forbid women to wear simple braids or to own gold, pearls, and fine clothes. Both the bride of Solomon (Song of Sol. 1:10) and the woman described in Proverbs 31:22 owned expensive apparel. However the Bible does forbid wearing those things for wrong motives. Seductresses in the Church After a sermon a while ago I walked out the door of the sanctuary, and was approached by a woman who was overly dressed and not appropriately attired for church. She handed me an expensive piece of jewelry, a gold chain, and a note soliciting me. That was overt, but there are much more subtle solicitations that go on all the time in the church. Anyone who doesn't realize that has their head in the sand--just look how many pastors fall prey to sexual sin, and how many churches have to deal with immorality. That is one of the reasons for Paul's strong words in 1 Timothy 2:9-10. Bringing Down the Curtain on the Fashion Show in the Church John Chrysostom, the fourth-century church father, wrote this in his homily on 1 Timothy 2:8-10 concerning the importance of women dressing modestly for the worship service: "What is this 'modest apparel'? Such attire as covers them completely, and decently, and not with superfluous ornaments for the one is becoming, the other is not. What? Dost thou approach God to pray with broidered hair and ornaments of gold? Art thou come to a dance? to a marriage? to a gay procession? There such . . . costly garments, had been seasonable; here not one of them is wanted. Thou art come to pray, to supplicate for pardon of thy sins, to plead for thine offenses, beseeching the Lord, and hoping to render Him propitious to thee. . . . Away with such hypocrisy! The church is to be a place where worship happens, not where people put on a show. It bothers me when I see people who claim to be Christians display a consuming preoccupation with their appearance. Whenever self- centered women take advantage of the worship service to call attention to themselves, it will bring great tragedy to the church. C. The Proper Motives 1. Of married women A Christian wife should seek to attract attention to her godly character, not her clothing. She should show by her dress and demeanor her love and devotion to her own husband. She should demonstrate a humble heart committed to worshiping God. 2. Of single women Single women need to realize that the worship service isn't the place to try to attract men. They too should understand it is more important that someone be attracted to their godly character rather than their outward appearance. How can both married and single women know if they are dressed properly for the worship service? By examining their motives. Ask yourself, Why am I dressed the way I am? What is my goal? Am I trying to draw attention to God or to myself? Will what I'm wearing stand out or will it be considered appropriate for the occasion? First Peter 3:3-4 is a parallel passage to 1 Timothy 2:9-10. Peter writes, "Whose adorning, let it not be that outward adorning of braiding the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel, but let it be the hidden man of the heart in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price. " Like Paul, Peter emphasizes that a woman is not to be preoccupied with what she wears, but who she is.

Shalom SP, You can save the sarcasm dear. All y'all that are stating it's not the woman's responsibility to be concerned about modest dress are arguing against Scripture. No one said that it is not ALSO the man's responsibility to avert his eyes. But, you see, that's not the topic of this article, is it? And all y'all are just arguing for nothing. The OP does not state that it is ONLY women. But the article is stating that it IS women (inclusive, not exclusive). Some of you people get so riled up about nothing. Goodness. Yes, the man bears responsibility for what he sees. That does not negate the WOMAN'S responsibility to be modest in dress according to 1 Timothy.

Shalom, Remember the Bible. It says for WOMEN to be modest in their dress. Those of you arguing against this are arguing against Scripture. Just by saying that men have a responsibility does not negate the woman's responsibility which is what we're talking about.

Shalom Emily Anne, Exactly.

Shalom Rufus, Perhaps you have not read the OP. You are making "points" that have NOTHING to do with this thread. There is no "shame and blame" and there is nothing wrong with G-dly men bringing forth the truth. Neither have anything to do with the OP. The bottom line is that women DO need to be taught the Biblical truth. Period. That is inarguable. If you want to make an issue of WHO teaches women, that's fine. I already posted Titus 2:3-5 and stated it is the older WOMEN'S responsibility to teach the younger ones in this and other areas of the being a G-dly woman. So, you are really making a non-argument. No one is arguing with you about this.

Shalom Mathqueen, An excellent suggestion!

Shalom Afal, This is so ridiculous. First off, that statement isn't true, but I'm not going to derail this topic any further arguing with you about it, You can think whatever you like. You don't know the person and you don't know his motives. Bottom line: You can suggest anything you want concerning this thread as you are a member of this board, but in the end, those who desire to continue this thread WILL and have the right to. You suggested "stopping" the thread." I'm saying that others who do not agree with your suggestion need not stop their conversation. Since you are not the OP, your suggestion is just that. The OP's participation in any thread is not necessary and others may choose to discuss the topic in the OP's absence. Now, since I choose to continue the discussion, I personally am getting back to topic. You can do whatever you choose to do. Shalom to you.

Shalom Keilan, This is perhaps the most important, spot-on, relevant post in the whole thread. You are one wise young man. AMEN!!!!!!!!!!

Shalom, All kidding aside, years ago I wore only calf-length jumpers, skirts and blouses - no pants, no shorts, no tanks etc. No makeup, no jewelry, no short hair. Now, I am much more relaxed about modest dress, but I still believe it is important for us women to dress modestly around other people. Now I have short-styled hair, wear makeup and jewelry, wear all types of blouses (but not revealing) and pants, skirts and even shorts (but not short). Anyway, my point is, women can be dressed nicely and still maintain modesty. We don't have to wear burqas or the American equivalent in my experience (the over-sized jumper and blouse). We can dress smartly and still be very modest in our apparel and our conduct so as not to cause a brother to stumble.

Shalom Y'all! This is so cool! Thanks for sharing!

Shalom Emily Anne, Gotcha!! Thanks for clarifying that. I know we miss our loved ones so much every day, but the holidays are especially difficult. I pray G-d's comfort and peace for you dear. :::hugs:::

Shalom SP, Ooooh, the FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!

Shalom Afal, No I didn't miss it, I just disagree with it. Well, I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt and perhaps the OP is away for the holidays or otherwise unable to log back on. I don't believe that the discussion should be shut down just because the OP is not available to comment. Please read what I said Afal. I never said you did suggest anything. I was just stating the facts that the OP need not be involved in the thread and there was no rule or really any reason to stop the discussion based on their participation, or even suspicions of their character or motives.

Shalom Emily Anne, No, it doesn't shock me. And I don't see the problem. As this thread states, it's about lying to your kids, telling them Santa is real and the one bringing them presents. You don't do that, so there is nothing wrong with the sentimental attachment to Santa that you have. Now, if you were telling them that Santa is real...that would be a different story. But, as the thread asks..."Why do we teach our children to lie."? I don't see you're doing that by having your dad's pictures on the wall.