3in1

hello Dad Ernie i think i agree (its late). i feel that generally speaking there are grey areas. using your example, playing cards is not sinful, but in your friends case, it is. making it a grey area. now, a black and white issue would be adultery. i dont care how you slice it, it is sinful. i think that in a believers walk, when their convictions are known, in a sense things become black and white to that person, not universally. in Christ

i agree w/ you. i mean in the respect that all things are either sinful or there not... for all believers. ie. drinking, is it a sin for everyone or isnt it? tatoos, are they sinful for everyone or not. why are you still awake?... why am i still awake? :sleep: :sleep: :sleep: in Christ

was discussing this w/ a buddy and the topic seems to come up around here. so do you think there are grey areas for believers? please provide scripture. in Christ

fornication? how does something get 'classified' as giving glory to God? im not intending this to be facetious. how does cutting the grass glorify God? how do the mundane things we do glorify God? is not being expedient synonomous w/ bad/sinful? in Christ

but there are TONS of other things we do that would fall into this category as well. what about the mundane things we do everyday that dont necessarily 'glorify God'. they wouldnt be classified as a carnal lust would they? and to remain consistent in your theology, you must also include the McDonalds you spoke of earlier on this list... shouldnt you? it does not nourish your body or spirit and is eaten to please the lust of the flesh (or fat cells). i do not smoke, for the record, nor have i ever. but are you saying that when i puffed a cigar when my children were born that i was sinning? in Christ

good call!

i dont think we are going in circles and no i dont think Christ's Spirit will ever depart after 'too much' sin(whatever that means). again, how do you differentiate btwn a struggle and a lifestyle? is there one? tell me what you think about this situation. a person gives their life to Christ and Christ enters their being. for the next two years he/she 'struggles' w/ lying. they then die after being a believer for two years. was this a lifestyle or a struggle? at what point did it go from a struggle to a lifestyle? my next question would be, at what point does Christ say that is too much and departs? in Christ

-i do not fear God b/c He has the power to cast into hell. i do not fear hell... anymore that is -when we sin it IS indeed a choice. - what do you mean by,"do we overcome or give in"? when we struggle we are giving in. -why isnt Jesus' blood covering all of our sins? what are 'those' sins? -do you think struggling w/ sin equate's abusing God's grace? why or why not? i believe that when Jesus died and we accepted and became new creatures in Christ, there were no more requirements for us. i dont believe that we become new, then old again, then new, then old again. salvation is a gift from God, NOT by works on our part. i assume my posts have not been taken as rude or offensive, b/c they are not meant to be. i hope im right in my assumption that yours are not meant to overbearing as well. in Christ

great, i didnt take them as mean, hopefully you didnt either! :il: again, there is no way we could list all the things that God could get glory from. i see what you are saying that b/c God may be glorified even in sin (ie David and Bethsheba's affair) does not make it right. but my point is that smoking in and of itself is no sin. again, 1Cor.3:16 does not fit here b/c that discourse is not a call for believers to be on the Atkins diet!(okay, okay, i admit that was bad, but hopefully you got the point ) in Christ

are you saying that if a born again believer commits adultery and wrecks his car on the way home he is doomed? so when does a sin become a practice/lifestyle? once a week, twice a day, etc? is there a diff from what your calling a practice/lifestyle and a struggle? once again, how can you differentiate btwn the two? in Christ

Amen!! God has brought more people into our lives as we continue to want to share what we have! in Christ

JUICES for regular drinking?!?!?! what about all that sugar? isnt this 'bad' for you as well? in Christ

true 1 Cor. 3:16 is not a discourse on what we eat or put into our bodies. please read in context. you say this assuming you know all that God can be glorified in. what about a smoking non believer who confides in believing smoker b/c he/she sees them as approachable? im not saying smoking isnt expensive, but where do you draw the line? could i not go through your closet and say that you dont really need four pairs of shoes. that money could go to better use for God's glory. not so sure about this one. what do you base this on? in Christ

i think the post was to mean that sometimes what we assume to be conviction from God isnt. im sure there are countless believers who feel guilty for drinking b/c of what they have been told. i speak from personal experience. when i became a believer, i was in a church that for the most part condemned all alcohol. but i didnt agree, but was inexperienced in knowledge on the issue. so when my wife and i had some wine w/ our dinner, i felt a little uneasy. not b/c God was leading me otherwise, but b/c i felt differently on an issue but had trouble explaining myself b/c of newness w/ Christ. but i do agree that God speaks to us in many ways. i will say it again, i feel guilt is not always reliable. in Christ

you got that right! i also find it very humbling! i've always felt that money can make a person a bigger what they already were. b/c its not only the rich who can be greedy. more money can make a giving person more giving. or a selfish person more selfish. in Christ

generally speaking, yes! now your convictions may say otherwise. in and of itself, smoking is not a sin. but if you feel guilty, then you should seek God's counsel on the issue. if you feel guilty b/c you have been told it was indeed a sin, then find out that its not, you may not feel guilt. but if you still feel convicted, then again, that's btwn you and the Lord. guilt is not always a reliable place to base our convictions on. in Christ

Who will be thrown into this ETERNAL FIRE? Those who do not have their names listed in the book of life (Rev. 20:15). The cowardly, unbelieving, vile, murderers, sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, idolaters, liars, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexual offenders, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, slanderers, and swindlers (Rev. 21:8; 1 Cor. 6:9,10). See also Gal. 5:19-21. Those who are not Biblically born again (Jn. 3:3-7). Those who didn't forgive others who sinned against them (Mt. 6:14,15; 18:22-35). Those who begin with Jesus, but don't remain in Him because they afterwards believed and accepted a wrong plan of salvation (1 Jn. 2:24,25; 2 Jn. 9; Gal. 5:2,4; 1 Cor. 15:1,2). Those who don't produce fruit (Mt. 25:14-46; Jn. 15:5,6), endure to the end (Mt. 10:22 cf. Jn. 6:66) or don't continue to believe, but "fall away" in time of TESTING (Lk. 8:13 cf. Mt. 13:21). [Persecution, in one form or another, is a TEST that comes to ALL godly people (2 Tim. 3:12; Lk. 6:22; Jn. 15:20).] All who receive the mark of the beast and worship his image during the time of the Antichrist, which includes former Christians who do NOT patiently endure and remain faithful to Jesus (Rev. 14:9-12; 13:8-10). Everything that causes sin and ALL who do evil (Mt. 13:41,42). All who are self-seeking, reject the truth and follow evil (Rom. 2:8). Timothy 4:2 when Paul commands Timothy, the head pastor of the church at Ephesus to "reprove": "preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction." (N.A.S.B.). The word "rebuke" in 2 Timothy 4:2 is a form of the word "epitimao" in the original Greek. In the context of this verse, "epitimao" means "rebuke, reprove, censure

good post fellow Texan...errr Koppen! sorry i had to throw that in! my family and i(wife and three kids) have been fortunate to not struggle financially. we are in the six figure range, but know where it came from! we love to share what we have and put away for our future as well. i am a firm believer that money does not buy happiness, only more places to look for it! i have been w/o... money and Christ that is! thank God we got our money after 'becoming new creatures', no telling what we would have done. in Christ

if one feels that our salvation is in danger when we sin, then i guess your right. i just dont see in the Scriptures where it says that if we sin too much we can go to hell. how many 'actions' does it take to land a believer in hell? when you say see this being in line w/ correcting and rebuking, where do you see this at, biblically speaking? how can we ever be qualified to say a believers actions can lead them to hell? how does a person know that they are doomed, or can one know? is there any condemnation for those that are IN Christ Jesus? again, im not intending to turn this into a OSAS discussion, but i happen to feel(scripturally speaking) that believers are sealed for eternity overwhelmed by grace and mercy! praise God!!! :il: in Christ

great post, i never looked at it in this manner. i also agree w/ But for Him, there could never be enough legislation to TRULY 'stop' Christianity! i am reminded of Jesus w/ the woman at the well. this part in particular: "... yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipersthe Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth." we are not only praying when we bow our heads and close our eyes, nor are we only worshiping in church on sunday's! the world does not understand that Christ is IN us!!!! legislation is weak in stopping believers from praying or worshiping! they do not understand this, nor can they! in Christ

great point!! even though her language may offend you, it doesnt mean it leads her to hell. this is a good example of us being unqualified to make such comments concerning salvation. if i saw a fellow believer drunk at a bar, that does not mean he is not saved, nor is he paving the way for hell. again, what we see can be deceiving. in Christ

not sure if i have this correct, but if she is a Christian, then how can talk like this lead her straight to hell? im not trying to turn this into a OSAS discussion, i guess that's what it boils down to. i do not feel her talking like this will lead her to hell. not to excuse her lying about you, but i agree w/ pretzelperson in saying we are unqualified to make such comments. we see the tangible only, which can be deceiving. w/ that said, i would apologize. again, her finger pointing needs to be confronted as well. in Christ

well, the first thing that came to mind was that you are not required to drink at clubs and parties. also, it is not a sin to drink. so feeling like having a drink is not in itself sinful. of course this may vary, but we cannot say that everyone who feels like having a drink is sinning. but for some, a few drinks is not possible. for some its either sober or smashed! im not saying you are like this but hopefully you see where im coming from. if you've had a problem w/ drinking and still do not want to be around your old scene, i doubt God is 'testing' you in this sense. IMO. actually, im not so sure i see a test in this equation. at some point in your life maybe you will be able to go to these places and still be a light. for a while in my walk, i had no business even mentioning the word club! but now it is no big deal for me to head out w/ friends (believers or not) or my wife and hang out every once in a while. i also have three kids, so when i say every once in a while i really mean it! but our situations are different, not just mine and yours but believers all together! God molds strong individuals to make a strong body! God is building YOUR testimony, Christianity is truly a personal relationship w/ the Father! again, wanting a drink is not a sin for everyone. really you are best suited to answer that. if its an addictive type of want, where you are controlled by your flesh, then you may want to abstain. ive been in a restaurant and someone order a drink, but i just didnt really feel like having one that day. but other times, someone may order something and i thought it looked good so i had one. so again, do you feel compulsive about needing a drink? do you think you want one or need one? big difference between the two. anyway Jacqueline, hope this helps in Christ

good call bro'. under the mindset, that tattoos and piercings are sinful b/c they destroy the temple, then lifting weights is also sinful, b/c tearing muscle fibers is tearing down the body! also, a whole host of other situations also arise, surgery, (i've had three... ouch!), eating fatty foods, etc, etc. i think this scripture has been taken way out of context on a continual basis, the scripture has nothing to do w/ our physical bodies infact! i have eight tattoos and my ears pierced and i still want more tats, i like to get an idea and then wait about four or five months to see if its what i really want. in Christ