pamjane

okay. thanks, ted, for explaining your comment more. i'm sorry to have come back at you with the tone i used.

does not exist. i'm sorry? you deny that the historical acts i mentioned ever happened?

Hi Mo' Welcome! Actually, I think the antipathy comes not from a misunderstanding of islam, but more from being blown up and kidnapped by it's followers. Thus, perhaps a modern day version of the proverb could read as such: "Man is the enemy of what blows him up, cuts off his head, or kidnaps him" Perhaps you have a point, though. Maybe there is a bit of misunderstanding out there. Y' see, we keep hearing that islam is a peaceful religion, but what we see in practice, at least by the leaders of the countries which are adherents to islam, is quite a different story altogether. So, in that sense, I don't quite understand it. Perhaps you could explain where I am misunderstanding things? Have a blessed day! t. whoa, buddy! let's not forget the bloody history of christendom. (quoted from here). that sounds pretty familiar. the religion we are identified with has a pretty nasty history: Crusades, the Inquisition, Catholic vs. Protestant wars/violence, 'Christian' Hitler's terror and the Holocaust, the Salem witch trials.

sylvan3, I read about the experiment in How We Believe: Science, Skepticism, and the Search for God by Michael Shermer. I'm not able to post the name of the book the experiment is documented in, but it's written by S.A. Vyse.

Lepaca and sylvan3, i understand how questions and Biblical contradictions can lead to an unbelief in God, but is there anything that makes you wonder sometimes that you may be wrong or that you may change your mind about God (maybe not even the Muslim-Judeo-Christian type God, but a Creator/Supreme Being in general)? sylvan3... i'll PM you the name of the book i'm reading. for some reason, i'm not able to put the title in a post.

for some reason i'm not able to post the response i want to post.

i don't mean to get off topic in my own thread, but whatever. that we find order, patterns, and beauty in the world does not necessarily mean that there is a creator. perhaps humans are naturally, through evolution, pattern-seeking creatures and that's why we have the illusion of the world being a creation. our minds find patterns in random places: the "man" in the moon, lincoln's head as a potato chip, the virgin mary in the clouds. i recently read of a test where two groups of people played a video game without any instructions being given. when someone from the first group performed a certain action in the game, he was awarded points. the folks in the second group were awarded points arbitrarily. when asked if there was a pattern as to how they earned points, most of the people in the first group correctly identified the pattern. most of the people in the second group, although there was no pattern as to how they earned points, came up with some sort of pattern to attribute their awarded points to. so maybe we've just evolved into a species that would find a pattern or meaning within any environment we were in. just a thought.

i just wanted to let you know that i'm not ignoring your post; i am, however, choosing to not answer those questions in this thread. i'm just interested in seeing what kinds of things cause nonchristians to doubt their unbelief. i'm sure some folks here would be happy to answer your questions if you create another topic for them.

mmm... very nice. i agree with this. also, for me, i can understand how we might evolve a sense of morality for the sake of forming human societies. however, if our sense of "right" and "wrong" has been evolved, then why would we continually have an inner war between being loving, kind, honest, brave, unselfish and being the opposite of all that society esteems?

I guess "what troubles you" isn't really what I'm asking. This is in response to emeraldgirl's topic about what questions and/or doubts Christians have about God, Christianity, or the Bible. I'm interested to see what questions, doubts, or thoughts non-Christians might have that direct them toward a belief in the God of the Bible. I hope that makes sense. to rephrase: What thoughts, if any, sometimes creep into your head that make you reconsider whether the Biblical God is true?

I first accepted Jesus as my Savior when I was in 7th grade, but I very rarely attended church. I began an intimate, personal relationship with God in fall 2001 during my freshman year of college. For 4-1/2 years I centered my life around Christ and devoted myself to knowing and loving him and the Church. Until March I even seriously considered going into fulltime ministry. I've probably only read about 1/2-3/5 of the entire Bible. A few things that I've found progressively troubling with the God of the Bible: **I know the depths of the darkness of my heart and the depravity of my mind. If I am a created being, then my Creator must be even more evil than me to have created my evilness. I understand the idea of free will, and that God created us good and we choose to do evil. But this does not negate the fact that God must have created this evil that we are free to choose. **How do I know I can trust the modern Protestant version of the Bible? There have been so many versions of what was considered canon at the time, not to mention dozens of other gospels, hundreds of other epistles, and many different revelations that never made the canon cut. This is coupled with the disparity of scripture that other posters have mentioned. If there are some mistakes (and possibly some intentional changes of events or words) in scripture, then how could we possibly trust that what we consider "God-breathed" scripture today is God's true word. **Radical Muslims have got me thinking about how our fathers of faith have killed and waged war in the name of our God. I'm not talking about the Crusades or the Inquisition or the KKK, which can all be attributed to people misunderstanding or grossly perverting the message of the Bible. I'm talking about the Old Testament heroes who heard messages straight from God. Today, radical Muslims genuinely believed that they are hearing from God and accomplishing his will by sacrificing their lives to bring justice to what they see as godless and tyrannical nations. Is there really much difference between the faith of Joshua or David and the faith of Ziad or Ahmed?

I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. (galatians 2:20-21)

cats, you have a very valid point, and you've shown me some things i need to think and pray about. thanks.

well, i don't have a family yet, but... when i DO have a family ( ) i already know of a tradition i want to start. i'd like for us to go out each year, and have each family member choose a new ornament for the tree. each person can choose either something that brings back a memory of the previous year, or just one that they like a lot. also, a really nice tradition i'd like to have is reading the christmas story aloud on christmas morning, and then praying together as a family before we open gifts.

that sounds like a great idea! the apostle paul saw celibacy as a gift from God, "I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that. Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am." (1 Corinthians 7:7-8) simon, amen!

i believe that homosexual sex is a sin. however, i don't believe it's a sin to be attracted to someone of the same sex; that's just a temptation. if sexual attraction is what defines homosexuality, then i would personally be homosexual (i'm more attracted to guys, but i've been attracted to girls before, too). so, is homosexual attraction genetic? i agree with the folks who say that it's "genetic" insomuch as we are all born with a sin nature. just think: who taught you to tell your first lie? no one did... it's our natural man, who looks out for himself and carnal pleasure, that sins naturally. the difference between the sin of lying and the sin of homosexuality is this: from the moment a boy is sexually attracted to another boy, he is automatically labeled by his temptation. in his mind, he's labeled by society as a "homosexual". however, from the moment a boy is first tempted to lie, he isn't labeled by society as a "liar". i think that most "homosexual" christians who are or plan to be sexually active have convinced themselves that it must be okay because since the moment they've had sexual feelings, they have been identified by their temptations. a huge struggle among christians from the beginning has been owning the fact that our sins and temptations don't define us, but who we are in Christ is what defines us as children of God. i've spent a good bit of time reading up about the issue of homosexuality and christianity, and i've talked quite a bit with people who consider themselves homosexual christians. even among gay christians, there's a big debate about whether it's okay to have homosexual sex or not. some believe that God is alright with homosexual sex if it's within a loving, committed, "marriage" relationship. others believe that gay christians are simply called to be celibate (just as an "alcoholic" christian would be expected to abstain from alcohol). i agree with the latter belief. i have some good articles about the issue, and also a link to an awesome online community of "gay christians" who grapple with these same questions. if you're interested, just let me know. love in Christ, pam

linda, through much study and prayer, i've come to the conclusion that it is not a sin to be tempted by homosexuality, and/or to act outside of "normal" societal male and female roles. a lot of the way people view sexuality, men, and women, has to do with what the media and society has fed us since birth. most of it is crap. according to the bible, however, sexual impurity-- including lust, extra-marital sex, pre-marital sex, and sex between members of the same sex --is a sin. sin separates us from God. Romans 6:23 states: "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Eternal life is a gift offered to all of us through Jesus. it doesn't matter what sins we have committed, despite what our society tells us. the blood of Jesus has covered every sin, and once we accept His gift, He gives us strength and grace to flee our temptations. Hebrews 4:15-16 says: "For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are--yet was without sin. Let us then approach the throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need." according to the bible, Jesus was tempted in every way. He understands your frustration and pain, and He offers to carry your burdens. (Mat 11:28-29). here is an _examination of scripture_ from Peter Ould, who has been tempted by homosexuality. the article has been very helpful to me in figuring out exactly how God views homosexuality. i have some more resources, too, if you're interested. just pm me. above all, i hope that you realize how God loves you and wants you to call Him Abba, Daddy. love in Christ, pam

oh, three of my favorites have already been listed!!! ("draw me close", "this is my desire", and come thou founts") 3 more of mine: "Psalm 139" by Amy's Confession Lord, You've searched me and You know me when i'm sitting down and when i rise. You've percieved my thoughts from far away; You know every word that's on my tongue. Where can i flee from Your spirit, Lord? even darkest night is to You as light! there is nothing on this earth that i can do to separate myself from You. thank You Jesus, thank You Lord, thank You Father, i have been restored; thank You Jesus, thank You Lord, thank You Father, i have been restored! "when i think about the Lord" When i think about the Lord, how He raised me, how He changed me, how He filled me with the Holy Ghost, how He healed me to the uttermost, when i think about the Lord, how He picked me up, turned me around, how He placed my feet on solid ground, it makes me want to shout: Hallelujah! thank You Jesus! Lord, You're worthy of all the glory, and all the honor, and all the praise! it makes me want to shout, Hallelujah! thank You, Jesus! Lord, You're worthy of all the glory, and all the honor, and all the praise! "How Great Thou Art" Oh Lord my God, when I in awesome wonder Consider all the worlds Thy hands have made, I see the stars, I hear the rolling thunder, Thy power throughout the universe displayed. Then sings my soul my savior God to Thee How great Thou art, How great Thou art! Then sings my soul my savior God to Thee How great Thou art, oh Lord how great Thou art! When Christ shall come, With shout of acclamation To take me home, What joy shall fill my heart. Then I shall bow in humble adoration, And there proclaim my God how great Thou art! Then sings my soul my savior God to Thee How great Thou art, How great Thou art! Then sings my soul my savior God to Thee How great Thou art, oh Lord how great Thou art!

3in1 -- i really appreciate the way you're not afraid to challenge the beliefs of the majority, and the way you investigate WHY you believe what you believe. Can Do -- ((((faithie)))) you're always there for people with an encouraging word. you have a genuine heart for your brothers and sisters, and that is an encouragement and blessing to me. shadow2b -- your posts have made me laugh so many times! thanks for your sense of humor and the wisdom you add to the boards. you're never afraid to tell it like it is. i must admit that i used to skip over your posts because they were so darn hard to read, but now i plow through them, knowing that there's something important there. gladiator4god -- thanks for your sense of humor on chat, and for your willingness to help out my friend. jade -- thanks for all you do as chat admin, and thanks for just being there for anyone who needs you. i really appreciate you. :hug: :hug: to everyone here... thanks for being so awesome, for teaching me all you've taught me and for challenging me.

hello, and welcome to worthy boards! i found an article that might be helpful. especially the last half seems very insightful: "A Time to Confront" in Christ, pam

my friend had one and she liked it, BUT... you might want to sit down and make sure that it's cheaper in the long run. especially if the phones are going to be your main phone connection. from the website it looks like 200 minutes cost $49.99. i'm on my parent's cell phone plan, and we get 300 minutes to share + free nights and weekends, free mobile-to-mobile anytime, a "family plan", where i can call the house anytime for free, on 3 different cell phones for probably about $75/month? (it might be even a good bit less than that). if you were to get the 200 minute tracfone plan, it wouldn't last very long at all. i don't think they have a free nights and weekends plan. on the last family bill, i alone used over 1000 minutes (345 of which were day minutes and i got in trouble... but that's another story ). and i'm not really a phone talker at all! tracfone worked for my friend because she didn't really use her phone at all, but it would most definitely NOT work for me or my parents, because our phones are our main avenue of talking to each other. if you're worried about the cost of the phone itself, most plans offer free phones or super duper cheap phones if you sign onto the plan. so... all that to say, i'd shop around if i were you. tracfone might seem like a good deal if you're just looking at the price, but definitely make sure that what you get will meet all your needs. i hope everything works out for you soon!

oh, what a fun task!!! cs lewis mere christianity (breaks down the building blocks of the christian faith in a way that makes them easier to understand; who is God? is Jesus who He said He was? super good stuff.) cs lewis the screwtape letters (fictional dialogue between 2 demons trying to mess up the life of a new christian... opens your eyes to what might be going on with the battle in the spiritual realm. my favorite book) dan stone the rest of the gospel (Christ lives through us; super for those who get burnt out by doing, doing, doing) steve mcvey grace walk (Christ lives through us) watchman nee the normal christian life (commentary on Romans; actually, i've heard that any watchman nee book is really good) oswald chambers my utmost for his highest (wonderful, relevant collection of devotionals) corrie ten boom the hiding place (autobiography about a christian who hides Jews in Nazi-invaded Holland; awesome testimony of God's faithfulness)

lol. i think (i might be completely wrong).. but i think that the same button you used to track a thread can be used to de-track the thread.

oh, oh, oh! please don't act on this. your first statement was right... it's completely wrong. you know that it's wrong, and he knows that it's wrong. if you truly like him, and he really likes this, y'all should let this go. if you act on your lusts, it will hurt more people than you can imagine.

i would say go to lunch with him. maybe he realizes that people are only his friends because he lets them walk over him. maybe he feels that you can be a true friend. i agree that you should super pray about it. ask God to let you see this guy through His eyes.