Child-Of-Israel

Hello Child-Of-Israel, When we get born-again for the first time we don't have the knowledge fully of all of what God did in our hearts and it seems we spend the rest of our lives in pursuit of that touch of God and finding out more and more of what He really did do for us when He saved us. I tend to agree with you that one can get locked in on being unworthy as I've been there and that is a trick of Satan working on our minds and hearts so that we want walk in victory but instead be held down and supressed in life. But truth is we are Worthy because He made us thus and put His righteousness within us and He justified us as if we had never sinned against God before wiping our slates clean. And that is good news to one who has been burdened down by this defeated mentality of being just unworthy sinners. I'm redeemed By love divine Glory, Glory Christ is Mine All to Him I now reside I Have been ----Redeemed OC Amen to both of you

The Bible tells us that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of good. We are all sinners, and at some point were in need of forgiveness. However, I was talking to some people on a forum, and to me it seems like Christians have adapted the "unworthy sinner" thing. But why? So what? We sin..too bad for us. But God forgave us. One of the reasons I feel that we're not getting any better churchwise is that we are living and teaching that all are unworthy sinful people. However, if we wallow in that we threaten our salvation because we are keeping a losing mentality. God forgave us, Jesus DIED for us. When we go around as "unowrthy sinners" we are saying that we don't know the magnitude of that sacrifice of love. When I think of myself, I see a sinner yes, but I see a forgiven sinner who is loved by the Most High. We should be proud that we are forgiven sinners. Proud that the King of all loves us. Proud that God is our Father and he is on OUR side. So I say let's break off this unworthy sinner bond, and move on to living as forgiven. Stop calling yourselves sinners, lets do away with it. When God forgives, he forgets and moves forward. When you say "We're all unworthy sinners." God's probably thinking "Weren't you paying attention 2000 years ago when my son died to free you from that bondage?" God didn't relieve us from sin so that we could be saved(not only for that anyway) and so that we could still call ourselves dirty sinners. He relieved us from sin so that we could pay attention to Him with a clear mind and spirit. I am not a sinner, I am a forgiven sinner, beloved of the Most High, and guess what, you are too!

You see, I think that a lot of people look at the small picture, and that is why I believe that most of the people here said he came to die. Your definition of the message of the Bible, to me, is looking at the small picture, and the actions of men. But I think the big picture is God's love. God started out with intent to love. We sinned, which inhibited that love, in order to relieve us of that inhibition he sent his son to die. Therefore, allowing us to love him without being hindered. I believe that the message of the Bible is a message of love, and of God's love. Why did God create? Love. Why did he send his Son? Love. I do not believe for any moment that sin has anything to do with God's original plan. I don't believe it for one second that it's of import on his radar. I think what matters is that we love him. When we sin we are showing a lack of love. When we sin we are making a choice. I believe that it's about our choice, and our love. When we sin we are choosing ourselves. I don't believe that people go to hell as a result of not believing. That has only partly to do with it. I think people go to hell for not choosing God. Likewise I do not believe that people go to heaven merely for believing, that's only part of it. I believe that a person must CHOOSE to LOVE God. A person must CHOOSE to have that relationship with God, and value it over ANYTHING else. When we focus on resisting sin we are devoting our focus to sin. When we focus on God, sin is handled and taken care of. Heaven is a place where God and his people can eternally commune. So, I don't believe that you simply are able to believe and go to heaven. I don't believe that you can go to heaven out of selfish want or desire. We go to heaven out of self-less love and sacrifice. Christ said that we must take up our crosses and deny ourselves, and it is that that brings us to eternity with the Creator. If we believe, and do not pray, If we go to church, and do not listen, If we teach without having the heart in us, without having the passion for it, than we will not make it. It takes Love for us to make it. I believe far too many Christians have accepted this believe, pray, go to church idea, and that's not enough. If it's not in the heart it's worthless. If it's not your passion, it's worthless. If it's not your love it's worthless. Anyways, my point is, I feel that belief should be more than belief. It should be EVERYTHING.

He came to overturn the affects of the Fall. The message is that He is the only way to do this on earth and experience it in Heaven. Ok, I believe differently, but I understand your beliefs. I saw that you believe Jesus' main purpose wasn't to die for us? The entire purpose in Christ coming was the culminated in the Cross. He repeatedly told His disciples that He would die and raise in three days. The entire purpose of Christ as God in the flesh was to die for our sins so that we might be restored to fellowship with God the Father. Exactly, his purpose was to restore our fellowship with the Father, he did so out of love. Therefore he came to prove his love to us, so that we could be with, and KNOW him. Both here and after we die.

He came to overturn the affects of the Fall. The message is that He is the only way to do this on earth and experience it in Heaven. Ok, I believe differently, but I understand your beliefs.

My question though, and maybe I didn't make this clear, is WHY did he come die for our sins? I personally believe that he didn't come with the main purpose of dying for our sin, I think he came with the purpose of proving his love to us, and showing he loves us so that we may love him in return...don't you think? AMEN!

What do you all think that the point of Jesus' coming here was for? What do you think is the core message of what he came to teach? What do you think is the overall message of the Bible?

I don't think you did. Obviously this is affecting her in a negative way. If she doesn't yet, she will need someone to be there for her. Just befriend her. Show her the love of Christ. Live the love and be an example. She is your best friend, and she is deterriorating because she is in a relationship that she doesn't want, and may not be able to get out of. You should take an opportunity like this to be a light in the darkness of her world. When you need counsel go to God, because at the moment she needs you, and you have abandoned her.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Sin has everything to do with it. Depending on how you look at it. "For the wages of sin is death" but what is sin? it is nothing more than showing God that you don't value him over yourself...

I pose this question to the people of worthy...above is a quote from a post of mine on another board. And I was wondering if such a thing is true? Here is what I believe...I believe that it is not our sins, bad actions, or wrongdoings that send us to hell, I think sin has nothing to do with it. I think it has to do with making a choice. when God asks us not to sin he is asking us to make a choice between him and ourselves. When we choose ourselves we condemn ourselves. I personally believe that heaven is eternal existence with God, and that hell is eternal separation from God. I feel that if one wants to enter heaven one must love God and have a vibrant relationship with him. I believe that the perks of heaven (ie gold, happiness, glory) will not be what makes us happy, it will be the fact that we are with the Creator that will make us happy. What are your thoughts?

Christ died for all. He loves all, and wishes that all dwell with him. One can believe in Christ, and not believe he died for him. The demons believe in Christ. I know because I know Christ.