Motivated By Grace

Hey Tom... Welcome to Worthy... Before you do anything Tom, I would suggest you learn a little more about Jesus and what (as well as who) He is... Jesus is love, itself. Realizing Jesus gave only two commandments is a good place to start... Your giving focuses on "what" to do, which is commendable, but giving in itself, misses the point. Jesus had some harsh words for the Pharisee's, sure. But what Jesus was saying to them was, "Go and love somebody, man! Go and love somebody!" First off, if I were you, I'd want to know more about how to really "LOVE" everyone... Not the wishy-washy let's all sit and sing coom-bah-ya, but the real thing... When you really love someone, you don't ignore them when you pass each other on the street... When you really love someone, you WANT to help THEM, and you don't even really have to pray or ask Jesus about it much of the time. You don't have to ask Jesus how to love your girl do ya? Well, actually even that is a learning process, but you understand what I'm saying... The best way to loose your mind in the love of God is to be better aware of how God loves you. That is the only key that will motivate you to "show God's love toward you", to others... As this knowledge and faith grows within you, every aspect of your life will be transformed, including your giving, and how's and why's may be totally different than the way you percieve them now... So in short? I recommend you seek more knowledge of the Love of God toward you to begin with. This will give you all the answers you seek in this thread, and countless more in the other areas of your life. This may seem so simple and hardly worthy of your notice, Tom... But rest assured, it is the most important thing you'll ever learn about giving, or anything else in your Christian walk... God bless my friend...

Amen Joe... Amen.

Amen HG... Amen.

You're very welcome Stacy...

Hello His Girl. Forgive me for not reading this entire thread, as I haven't seen any of it. But I will say I have did my absolute best to explore the Calvinist opinion that God created some men to go to Hell... And like you, it's beyond me how anyone could think the Bible teaches that. My only word of caution would be that anyone attempting to teach such a thing to others, please take particular care. Teachers will be judged "more harshly", in whatever that means. I don't say this out of hate, anger or anything else other than complete respect for anyone that does their best to discern the Truth, whether we disagree or not. Whether we understand the Truth or not? Agree on it or not? None of it will ever change the Truth, in wahtever it is on any given subject.

Hello my brothers and sisters. My name is Matt and it's been a while since I've visited WB. I kinda glanced in here of a news article FresnoJoe gave me, and somehow I happened across this thread. How refreshing it is to see (and kinda hear) intelligent Christians fellowshipping and learning in the Lord as they seek God in every aspect of their lives. It's an honor beyond words to be a member of the family of Christ. I enjoy it so very much... The topic of what it is to be a disciple of Christ is a wonderful subject and there have been some beautiful comments on it in this thread. I can very well tell you are true children seeking to please and better know our Father. It's a wonderful life. Isn't it? Amen. I can honestly say right here, right now, I love you all more than you maybe know. The only way you can understand how much I love ya is to love me back the same way, which some of you just might do because of the Holy Spirit living inside of you! Amen! To me, being a student of Christ's came as natural as falling off a log. When I was born again, I simply "wanted" to know my Lord and Savior better. So? I began to study His Word (the Bible) about 16 years ago now... Boy oh boy! What a book! Does anyone know of ANY other book that could hold one's interest for so long and still be more exciting after 16 years than it was in the beginning? It's incredible at the eternal (never ending) knowledge and wisdom to be had in God's Word. I truly believe there is no end to God's knowledge... Thus? We could easily spend our eternity learning, loving, adoring and praising God with ever-increasing passion. I am absolutely convinced of it. In the beginning, I scarfed up every resource my family members and friends had... Stacks and stacks of video's taped from sermons they'd seen on television. In my area back then, TV was hard to come by. The only reason we have it now is because of the satellite technology that has come to pass since then (been there-done it-disconnected it-isn't worth watching and I ain't paying MTV to be on the airwaves anymore). Anyways... I dug, studied, learned...dug, studied, learned...dug, studied, learned... I was having a WONDERFUL time! But as I did all this, I was taught that there was much more personal responsibility to "keeping" my salvation than I had realized at the moment I actually sat on the couch with my wife and ask Jesus to save me, among other things I had going on in my heart with Him. As time went on, I learned of more and more and more and more things that "I" was "expected" to do to be a "proper" Christian that God would be proud of... I mean literally, the longer I studied, the longer the list got. After a while, I kind of realized I was never going to be anything but a disappointment to God, and especially the One that had given me "my" second chance, Jesus. The knowledge of that greatly saddened me. I mean I was making steps forward in my growth as best I could tell, all the time, but when I stopped to tally things up, I always came up so very short of what God expected of me. This went on for 12 years of my life and walk with God. I had literally developed the attitude, and told God many times that; "God? If I make it to Heaven, that will be just wonderful. But if I don't? I'm still going to make all the difference I can for You, Jesus, while I'm still here, whatever that will be." Then one day, thank God Almighty, he birthed within me a quest that led me to such a powerful Truth that it has literally changed me forever. There will be no end even in eternity to the impact this Truth had and has on me. It was the one thing God had been trying to tell me all along, but it was never "taught" to me through men, so it's a wonder I ever realized it at all. I should have died this physical life with the error I had come to understand. But thank God, He brought me out of Egypt, and this whole journey began on a mound of gravel in Oakvale, West Virginia as my knees buckled under the power of it all, as I was at work. I know you all may be thinking I've just mindlessly taken a huge rabbit trail off of the subject at hand, but I do have a reason in telling you all this. I saw that within the thread the subject has come up exploring the "how to's" in letting the Light within us shine on others in this hurting and dying world, which is also a beautiful topic to ponder, I might add. I think the quest I began described in the previous paragraph, coupled with the backdrop of everything before that provides a contrast for what I am about to say. I just recently finished my first book. It's a relatively short book of 13 chapters focusing on exactly what our identity in Christ is, according to GOD alone. It is a biblical account of who we are "in Christ". Folks? The epiphany I had in Oakvale that day? It's going to sound very simple, and you'll miss the entire meaning of what I'm talking about here if you don't stop everything for a second and listen very closely to what The Spirit may have you know. And please... I do hope I don't sound arrogant in suggesting such a thing... It's just that this is so very important to every one of us as born again Christians... My epiphany that day in Oakvale was about nothing else except the "love" of God... It is nothing but the love of God for us all that motivated Christ to do what He did for us... And folks? What He did for us may well go beyond the understanding of most if you are one of the one's leaning on the TV to give you your full understanding of your salvation. It could well be you haven't known the "JOY" of your salvation in years. If this is the case for any of you, please take advantage of the road God has had me travel. Please? When Christ gave His two commandments to us, they were both commandments of love. Most people do not understand what He meant when He said all of the law was "fulfilled" (made complete) in the love of God (not to be confused with the love of man). My family? By living a life wherein you love others as you do yourself... by living a life with the knowledge of exactly how God loves you... by living a life where you love God back in the same way... in living that life? You will accomplish everything in your life the Law could ever tell you to do, and you know what? Probably a whole lot more! And the beauty of it all? All you have to do is "live your life" that Christ gave you! All you have to do is LIVE! It's so simple, it's incredible, and it ALL points to Christ... None of it points to us, or anyone else... It's all about Christ Jesus and the change He brings about WITHIN us all... How does one better let their "Light of Christ" within them better shine for others to see? You simply need to live your life as the person you are, which has been influenced by the wonderful love of God. Before we were saved, we didn't have to concentrate on any "do's or don'ts". Oh sure, we inserted a scruple here and there as we may have deemed necessary, but for the most part? We were simply who we were. Everyone else could either take it or leave it. Some people liked us? Others did not. Some people we liked? Some we did not. We simply lived life as who we were. No rocket science. My precious brothers and sisters? It's the same way after we are born again. After we are born again, we begin a never-ending process of learning and growing in the love of God which can also be called "walking in the Spirit". Every time we learn something else about God's love and the Holy Spirit places it in our heart, we are again changed forever. This in turn, simply changes "us" in all that we are. Our lives reflect it, therefore others see it. It isn't in any particular place (such as a church house) or at any particular time (such as on Sunday)... It is an every second, life long thing, whether we are at the grocery store, at work, or on vacation. We will be who we are every minute of every day. And every time we "grow" in knowledge and God given wisdom? Our lives will simply reflect it. THIS is the Light Jesus wants to shine throughout the world. It's ok to be "on assignment" in the tasks you do sometimes I suppose... But Jesus is looking for that Light that shines within us all as we simply live our lives in the unshakable "JOY" of our salvation. We won't always be happy about our current circumstances. This world and the evil one will see to that. BUT, we will always be victorious in Christ, because of Christ, even when we don't realize it because we haven't learned it yet... But if the foundation in the knowledge and wisdom of EXACTLY who we are in Christ and the totality in the specifics are rooted within us? Then the "JOY" (not happiness) of our salvation can never be shaken. Such things as depression will never lay hold of you again because you now know the powerful, unchangeable, eternal Truth of your future and SOOOO much more. And your Light? HAHAHAHA! You couldn't hide it if you tried... It will shine all over EVERYONE, even when you wish it wouldn't so'd you can get some rest, LOLOL! There's so much to be said about all of that, I could possibly do it here... But if anyone find themselves interested in what has just been revealed? Let me know. I'd be delighted to speak with you all more about it... Amen. God bless you all in your journeys.

Bravo Sis! Bravo!

Because you're no longer under the Law,Ood.

As much as you want to help them Benobi, right now? It's not your task... If you are meant to help them, you will find all your answers first... If you love them and want to help them? Find the answers for yourself first... the real ones that endure... Then you can give what you've learned to others... But till then? They are responsible for themselves bro...

Amen Sis! Amen! Well said!

The Conflict of Two Natures 14For we know that the Law is (A)spiritual, but I am (B)of flesh, (C)sold (D)into bondage to sin. 15For what I am doing, (E)I do not understand; for I am not practicing (F)what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with (G)the Law, confessing that the Law is good. 17So now, (H)no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 18For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my (I)flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19For (J)the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, (K)I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 21I find then (L)the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. 22For I joyfully concur with the law of God in (M)the inner man, 23but I see (N)a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the (O)law of my mind and making me a prisoner of (P)the law of sin which is in my members. 24Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from (Q)the body of this (R)death? 25(S)Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh (T)the law of sin. - Romans 7:14-25 Paul had the same problem brother... as do we all if we are all truthful with ourselves. A couple of important things to remember according to the scripture above? Before the world was ever made, Jesus knew you, Benobi. He knew everything you would be? And everything you will never be. On both counts, Jesus provided for your eternal life... If you are born again, you will never have to worry about that. Kinda takes the pressure off, doesn't it? THAT'S a REAL Savior! Amen! I would say the evidence points toward you really being saved, else there would be no battle waging within yourself. The Holy Spirit, given by God to dwell within you is warring with the desires of your flesh... and that's all they are... desires. They are not "necessities". To be victorious by and through Jesus? Yes, but that knowledge does you no good if you don't know what it means... Your victory simply lies in your desire. It is a common fact, men and women WILL do what they desire. When your desire to please God is dominant? You don't do drugs. When you go too long without meditating on God, keeping Him in front of you? Leading you? Seeking Him? Your desire shifts... The flesh becomes dominant... If you want deliverance from drugs without falling back into them? Keep God in the forefront of your mind and life bro... Every time we take our eyes off Him for the least little bit of time, we suffer the consequence... Love ya brother...

If in fact you are being prepared for ministry, your training is not yet complete... You'll need to seek God's Victory over this before you can be an effective minister to those hurting like you... But you can do it... God has a remedy for you my friend... Seek God in understanding the cause, affect and deliverance of your problem... You'll need to know it all to be "set free" in your mind, and to pass it on to others...

No. But God would use the testimony of victory in their life to witness to drug users... And they would be connected through the ex-addicts past... They would still have a common point of reference...

Hello again everyone, and I want to thank each of you for your time again! In my area, the following understanding of exactly what salvation is is almost unknown. In our area, it is dominantly preached that one can lose their salvation... which by the way I wouldn't have a hard time believing myself had the bible not used the word "eternal" life, then backed it up with truckloads of scripture... But the following is what the bible says to me about salvation. Thanks again for everyone's participation! http://www.worthychristianforums.com/uploads/emoticons/default_wub.png' alt=':wub:'> _______________________________________________________________________ To be "justified" means to be "made right" with God... To be found "Not Guilty!" by the Good and Perfect Judge, God Himself! You see, every good judge must seek justice for all wrong doing. God is no different. Sin demands punishment. God MUST punish sin. Our identity before coming to Christ was that of a sinner. As it says in Ephesians 2:3, "We were by nature objects of wrath." Having being born into sin, we were cut off from the life of God. However, through the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, we have been brought back into a "right relationship" with God. Because Jesus took all our sin, paid the price for it on the cross (our preparation unto salvation), and GAVE us HIS righteousness, we can now stand "justified" (found not guilty) before God! Let's ask ourselves a few questions that requires a little honesty here if you don't mind. Have we ever looked upon a person with lust? I'll admit I have. So? According to God's Law, what does that make me? An adulterer. Have we ever stolen anything? I have. So what am I? A thief. Has anything ever been more important to me than God? There have been times in my life when God was last on my list. What does that make me? An idolater. Have we ever told a lie, no matter how "small" the lie? I'm guilty again. So what does that make me? A liar. Ok. I'll stop there. No need to go any further... No matter what "your" answers were, if you find yourself guilty of any ONE of God's Laws, the bible says you are guilty of breaking them all! So by my own admission, I'm an adulterer, a thief, and idolater, and a liar. Now let's say I stood before God for judgment. I know God is a loving, caring and forgiving God, and I am very, VERY sorry for what I've done. I'm so sorry for what I've done, I'm ready to promise never to do it again, and mean it! So when I get before the Judge, I say, "Your Honor? I am guilty of all these things. I do not deny that. But I am very sorry for what I've done. Please forgive me. I promise I will NEVER do them again!". The Judge hears your plea, but being a good Judge, he cannot let your wrong doing go unpunished. There must be a sentence of punishment. "You should be sorry for what you've done." the Judge says. "The price that must be paid for your transgressions... is death." Standing in the wake of your judgement, what will you do now? Right then and there, in walks Someone that petitions the Judge on your behalf. "Your Honor? My name is Jesus. I take all the blame for the list of transgressions before you. I will give all that is required by the Law in order to pay the penalty in full." He then pays the price for your sin, satisfying the requirements of a perfect Law, and a Righteous Judge. "Very well." says the Judge. "(your name here)? Another has come forth and accepted the blame for these sins and paid the price for them. This Judge finds you not guilty. You are free to go." As you hear what has happened, and as the price is paid for your sin... How would that make you feel? How do you feel toward the One that accepted your blame as His own and paid your price? Folks? If that doesn't bring you to your knees in love and adoration for Christ, then you are totally missing the point, and quite honestly, you need to re-evaluate your situation, as it may well be you just "think" you're saved... If this doesn't move you with great compassion and appreciation, most likely you are not saved at all. But wait? He paid the price... You're free to go... But where? Through the first Adam's sin, mankind was left spiritually separated from God. Mankind inherited a "sin" nature, which gaurantees you to be nothing more than a sinner. So? Two things had to be done in order for us to be saved... First we had to be justified before God. Jesus did that on the cross of Calvary. He took the blame for the sin of the world... every sin... and then He paid the Price for that sin... with His life's blood. Sadly, that's where the message of salvation stops in many pulpits across this globe. How sad, because it is an incomplete message. The price Jesus paid for our sin was our "preparation" for salvation... not salvation itself, because we are still spiritually "dead" so to speak, though our sin has been justified. Do you understand what I'm saying? Before the cross, we were two things: Sinners and dead. After the cross we are only one thing: Dead. You see? Being "sorry" for what you've done and "doing good" from here on out, and begging for forgiveness isn't good enough to get salvation because even though the fine has been paid, you are still "dead". That is NOT salvation. You still need "LIFE"... You/WE still need LIFE! "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation." - Romans 5:8-11 Salvation can come only through the One that can give you life, as well as pay your fine. In the scripture above, three specific things are mentioned, each different from the other: (1) "Justification" by the sacrifice of Jesus; being (2) "Saved" by Jesus, and both of them together (justification and being saved) equals (3) "reconcilement" unto God through Jesus! Jesus paid your fine over 2000 years ago, preparing us for salvation. The price Jesus paid for you can only be accounted on your behalf if Jesus "knows" you. And the only way He will "know" you is for you to invite Him into your heart and life, seeking and accepting the "life" He gives, demonstrated in His Resurrection from the Grave! You see, even if your sin has been paid for, you still need life! You STILL need LIFE! Jesus said only HE is "the Way, the Truth, and the Life!", John 14:6 . So in short? Salvation is accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, believing that He is the Son of God who died in payment for your sin (in fact, the sin of the "whole world" - EVERY sin) and THAT HIS payment was the ONLY payment that could pay such a price, and that He (Jesus) was resurrected unto life eternal and that He gives this life to all that seek (life) and accept HIM, of which personal repentance for who you are/were (a sinner) is a part of that acceptance of Christ! You cannot turn to Christ, without turning away from your old self. Seeking and receiving "LIFE in Christ"? Now THAT'S salvation!

Thanks to everyone for your replies... I'll chime in this weekend... My thanks to all! Amen!

Explicitly, is the sacrifice of Jesus Christ our salvation?

This is absolutely incredible. THIS is what it is to be "changed" by the Spirit of God. Than you for this link Nebula.

By the way, Lilithapple? You still with us?

The "original sin" was man's dis-obedience to God's instruction. Jesus, in coming to save us from all that, says that sin is "unbelief in Him", as it says in John 3:18.

I don't know about reading our minds, but I know it's easy enough to determine anyone's intentions. You can do this without reading minds...

I find it interesting that there is so much focus on "her", and not one word being said by anyone about the hundreds of other inmates right there beside her... As far as I go, her punishment is just that... Punishment. Just like all the others in there with her... I pray for them ALL. They need Jesus, that's all. Jail isn't the end of the world, but it just may be enough to give her something else to think about... Maybe not... But I pray the best...

Oh Indeed I Do! Worthy Has A Long History Of Folks Bashing Catholic Christians. The Brother Demanded To Hear The Truth. Well Bless His Little Heart, He Got It. Too Many Years In A Baptist Pew You Think? I'm Not Neutral When It Comes To Family. Neither Are You My Dear Brother. It's an honor to know you Comrade...

I find that hard to swallow... There must have been some missing facts. At most, 5 DUI's and they are gone to prison with major time...

This kind of fame encompasses just about everyone in the public eye of HorrorWood. Different astors/actresses are actually worshiped, along with Music stars, preachers and a multitude of others... It's hard to have the guts to come to Jesus responsibly in situations such as this I would think... I will continue to pray for her salvation...

I'm only about halfway through this, but it's making sense to me so far! Thanks Shiloh!