sososo

On this link you'll find an interesting bio of Stephen Yulish, a one time Kabbalist[?]. He's written some interesting articles and books. http://www.fivedoves.com/grace/stepheny86-2.htm http://www.alienseekernews.com/writers/yul...ticleindex.html

Jesus is the man born of mary,but God is the one who became the man. Yahwey is the name of God the Father not necessarily the name of the son. Jesus is the Father,Son,and Holy Spirit. Yahwey was revealed in Yeshua. The son is the MAN, The Father became. Yeshua is that man,Yahwey is the Father. They are not separate ''beings'' but distinct through Yeshua's humanity. I would disagree that the name Yahwey is the name of the Father...... Yahwey is the name of what Jesus was before ne sat it aside and became a human. The Father is who Jesus was b4 he set aside his deity to become a man. Then either Moses was wrong when he said that he, Aaron and 72 other people saw him, or Jesus was wrong when he told us that no one has ever seen the father..... I personally do not believe that either of them is wrong and that the Father is not what we call the God that Moses knew. If he is, then the Bible is wrong on one place or the other. S This is part of an essay you may care to read or comment on. I am referring it because it addresses the use of upper and lower case letters to distinguish a difference. http://www.custance.org/old/seed/ch24s.html

Ok, let's examine your claim. Scripture that uses the word trinity NONE there are none Scripture that says God in three persons NONE there are none Scripture that says God is coequal NONE there are none Scripture that says God the Son NONE there are none Scripture that says God the Holy Ghost NONE there are none Scripture that says God requires us to define Him NONE there are none Scripture the says what you say is heresy is therefore heresy NONE there are none AnotherTraveler is my new hero. Thanx for your common sense approach AnotherTraveler. Yes, there is no requirement to define God [let the scientists do that : ) . ]

Greetin's I participated in a similar 'Trinty' debate on another forum which [surprise] became the longest thread ever on that forum. I agree with most of what onwingsaseagles has posted. It's a mystery [AnotherTraveler] agreed but, there are deeper aspects that one day no doubt will be revealed. There are no limits with or in God and I believe an aspect of this is in understanding He is not limited to a time space continuum as we are. I'm not talking science fiction here. Jesus/I AM is written of in the tense of past, present and future in scripture, sometimes within the same passage/verse. Some thoughts,

Obviously there are distinct qualities as written in scripture but, beyond a literal reading is the word 'persons' that I think bring in a debate. I have no problem with using the word 'manifestation' for lack of a better word. The context of which word to use in referring to a concept which as you say is a thing our finite minds can't fully grasp is all important. Personally I put no limits on who God is in terms of what is possible or not. As God is outside the limits of time and space in our physical reality this is also difficult to grasp in terms of past, present and future in a time space sense. If this is as you say nonsense of the familiar and well known passages, a person could contend that a fundamentalist is a bible idolizer who is comfortable only with the familiar. Our understanding is in the divinity of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Is there a 'distinct' divinity, [?] no. I do understand the conviction of faith but, using words such as ' heresy of the highest degree ', is an uncalled for judgment in a reply where you state 'nonsense' but haven't provided clear understand to 'onwings'. Just some thoughts

Greetin's onwingsaseagles I agree with much of what you have written. Jesus is the incarnation of the Oneness of HaShem Elohim. Only the Creator can redeem us and in the manifestation of Yehoshua the Lamb this was done.

Hi JoelWildtree We do have a few thoughts in common. I also don't believe in religion and doctrine per say or as you know it but I do know God has a purpose and plan for humanity. I don't understand your view that our reality is not in a state of duality? There are hundreds of examples of opposites for instance [even the PC code of 0's and 1's]. You have been given a twisted view of what a 'Christian' is so, I do have an idea of where you're coming from because of this. Your description of how the brain works is a presumption where it concerns consciousness, nothing more than maybe a belief you hold that is unsubstantiated. Regards

I don't believe that there is a "spirit" or "soul" beyond that which is physically manifest within our minds (brain). If one would like to call their conscious or subconscious mind a "soul", that's fine ... as long as they realize that attaching the word "soul" doesn't suddenly give their mind supernatural qualities. I don't really *believe* in humanism, but I have looked into it, critically examined it's reasons, and found little fault. I don't adhere to it, but I see that it makes sense, so I try to live as a humanist, extending rights and freedoms I would personally want to those around me, keeping a skeptical attitude about those things which are harder to explain. And I certainly agree, the humanities problems will never be solved ... but I think it's quite possible to do my part at least, and not contribute toward the suffering. No I disagree though, I don't remember being exiled from Eden, all I remember is my life from about 3 years old and on, if you have any evidence for this 'Eden' besides a passage in a claimed Divinely inspired book then please share with me. I'm not satisfied with dying, but it's going to happen. I know for a fact that you neither are satisfied with dying, do you honestly want to leave behind this physical life? No of course not, although you have convinced yourself there is another, precisely because you can't deal with the fact of death, but it's still there, undeniable, we all die. Why do you think the story of the resurrection was constructed? It gives hope of eternal life to the followers of Christianity. The big questions in my life are, "will I enjoy my career for long?", "will I make enough to keep myself and my family financially supported?", "do I want to get married?", "is my girlfriend 'one'?" ... my questions pertain to this life I'm living. Your big questions are what keeps you from just living life ... therefor you cannot go on until you've found an answer that is satisfactory, and any religion will provide you with unsubstantiated answers. I cannot buy it though, so I'm just going to live my life, and worry about the things that matter to me. Hi JoelWildtree Can you clarify or explain " I don't believe that there is a "spirit" or "soul" beyond that which is physically manifest within our minds (brain). " ? How does the mind [brain] physically manifest spirit ? It seems you view yourself as two dimensional. Are you simply a mind and body? Surely you are conscious and that is an aspect of you, who you are, how creative thoughts/ideas and awareness have little to do with the mechanics of neurons and electrons. Something a PC can never acquire [please don't relate this to an AI topic]. You find humanism has very few faults and makes sense and try to live as a humanist, enough said so, don't be contradictory with I don't believe in it, I don't adhere to it... and who gave you the power and authority to " extend rights and freedoms "? Please. " Humanities problems will never be solved.. " like you actually care because, in the next paragraph you give a description of " the things that matter to me ". Nothing to further discuss. BTW The LAMB broke the chain of Death so, NO I have absolutely no fear of death, I only continue to fear the Creator.

Precisely... I think I would say we are inevitable rather than lucky. If you look at the probabilities associated with the conditions to support life (as we know it) opposed to the shear size of our universe...it would be almost statistically impossible to say that there AREN'T quite a few planets out there that are capable of, and in fact do, harbor life. Now this is something that I find amusing! The ' almost statistically impossible to say ' propaganda that atheists swallow as fact and truth. ...Capable of, and in fact do, harbor life [left out "as we know it"], it's the if a tree fell and no one was around... so by chance we get a satellite photo one day of life [enter no. here] trillion light years away so what? I'd first have to be convinced it's not another propaganda lie to suit a governing agenda.

Hi JoelWildtree I'm just wondering since you mention in your reply things concerning the mind, soul [ie.,feelings, personality,..] and spirit to which you end your post in a sarcasm concerning spirituality and Allah, what do you view as spirit or if you even still believe that a part of you besides the mind and emotions is spirit and is a part of us? Do you view consciousness as spirituality in whole or in part? I don't believe in humanism to which many atheists adhere to and any of the lies that we are gods[ if consciously realized ] and the whole or any major part of any of humanities' problems will ever be solved, remember we were exiled from Eden, in a state of duality and corrupt. A part of what I mean when I say corrupt has something to do with death. You can research this yourself and find that there is no such thing as a natural death [check any coroner's report], there is no reason to why we die except as a inherited at the time of exile. If you are completely satisfied with the secular answers given for life's big questions I'm not one to judge. If you are satisfied that this is all there is in life as a human being and that viruses are better at this then us, I'm not one to judge. If your sub-conscious and conscious are telling you Hmmmm.... there is something I'm missing, I'm am not one to judge.

Science talks about this, I thought I'd mention it to make the point that you and others may find amusing[?]. That point being what you have already stated about the odds and probability. Google the odds and find out if there's better odds at wining a lottery. I didn't write about this being a 'sign' or evidence, you have taken it that way[?]. What I do know is that if a belief doesn't give a person adequate answers to life questions, science only provides more questions at best.

Number 5 is more about morality then science but what interests me about your opinion is that you must also know that the distance of earth from the sun and the fact our planet has only one moon are of the upmost importance to life as we know it. If the planet lacked a moon or had two moons the probability of life or life as we know it would be different. My point is science can't explain the perfection. Some agree there are more than three dimensions or planes but few can accept that Jah is outside the realm of time or space. You write that we have an innate morality that is 'built in' all of us. I completely disagree. Where religion and doctrine fails, laws are enacted but this doesn't assure morality and as we know laws change with the wind. Let's say good is 'built in', then I could also reason evil is 'built in'. To keep this short I'll simply say we are created in a state of duality with mind and soul [feelings, emotions] and spirit but, we are born spiritually dead [or very close to?]. The very act of our creation [duality] is to become One with the Creator in an act of returning. Hope some of this makes sense.