rafter

What bothers me about Appendix A is not what is said, but how it is conveyed. It carries such an urgency, like a used car salesman. Buy now and don't think about it or you will miss out. I don't think this form of prophecy is of God at all. I have friends who run to these conferences because,"That's where God's at". Baloney, God is everywhere and all knowing. Jesus said to go to our prayer closet. And just for the record when they say it is a new revelation and it is not in the scripture. I say then it must not be of God. It breaks my heart when well meaning people are decieved and are decieving others as well. I think Jesus said to not run after them when they said He is here or He is there. Did He not say the Kingdom of God comes from within. And not with observation. Hmmm I have said enough........

This verse I believe speaks to these type of ministries. I for one will not judge them outwardly, although I have always had my doubts about the integrity of these $ based ministries. I believe G-d uses these ministries for good and no one especially those who benefit can say they don't, but at the same time I believe money is the god they truly worship and religion is the path they chose to get rich. Although they perform great works they are spiritually dead and G-d will deal with it at the appropriate time. p.s. I would counsel that the post could have been just as revealing with out the personal accounts of others being aired for everybody to read. I see nothing malicious about coolwaters post. He seems to me to just be pointing out the danger zone. He actually agreed with God-man. And why can he not express his concern, is he not a brother also. Thank you God-man for this post it was informative. And I am sure you did not do this lightly, but as your post indicated, it was after much prayer.

Much better atomosphere, much better dialogue, much better teaching, much easier to entreat. Thank you George. I look forward to learning more about this issue and being able to see all opinions and still keeping the peace..... Excellent choice.

I want to start this with a question. Would Jesus ask you to do something you were not capable of? The answer is no. He said to love your enemies. I figure in Christ you are capable of loving your enemies. Because the Spirit of Jesus Christ lives in you. I know the world says you can not love some one else unless you love yourself first, but I have not yet seen that in the scriptures. Actually it says no man hates his own flesh. The problem is not love, it is not living a crucified life. I am not condemning here, we all struggle to deny ourselves and take up our cross daily. Remember if we love those who love us, we are not any better than the world. Even someone who does not know Jesus is capable of loving if they are loved first. But as a Christian we are to love even when we are not loved.....

All the above are good answers. God is the one doing the work...... Ever hear someone say, "The Lord helps those who help themselves." Can anyone who knows the Lord fathom such a non Biblical statement? Why on earth would the Lord help someone who already was helping themselves? These are very good statements. God helps the helpless. Having said that, In my life things just don't go right unless I am reading the word of God on a regular basis. If I neglect reading for a season I can not hardly stand myself. But when I repent and begin to feed on God's word, I can sense the changes, almost overnight. We need to feed our spirits even though it is God who ultimately does the changing. At times God is very willing to change us, but is waiting for our obedience to His convicting......

Happy, in my opinion. Spend more time praying and interceding for him than actual witnessing. It is the Holy Spirits job to soften and convict. Ultimately It is the Holy Spirit who brings us all to Jesus............ And remember to always love him............

Number one, I think intelligence and knowledge, which puffs up, are two different things...... I think intelligence is a good thing if it is a Godly intellegience. Worldly intelligence will only cause you to keep on doing the same sin that got Adam in trouble in the beginning. It says we don't need God. But I don't think this is true intelligence. The real intelligent person knows we don't get out of this life alive. And we truly need God in our lives. If this person you work with is truly intelligent and being honest, he will know he falls short and needs help. Remember the beginning of wisdom is to fear God. Carnal intelligence is still carnal. At it's best it is still way short of God's wisdom. Just my two cents happy. Have a good day, and may God help you be a witness to this man. :upsided:

Very good, I would never have gotten that one. Thanks for the brain teaser and have a great day. God Bless, Denny

Rick I think that is an excellent observation and question. Personally I think too much is made of having the completed work. Sure the word of God is important, real important. But even if we only have a partial word and respond to it, we will know the truth and the truth will set us free. The Holy Spirit of God is still right here doing His job of convicting and restoring us. Knowledge does not save us, the Holy Spirit brings us to the cross of Jesus Christ. We need to follow the revelation of God where ever it might be. Let us say hypotheticly that we have no bible to read. God would still find a way to get the truth to us. He is able. I say read as many translations as you can and let the Holy Spirit do His job. He is an excellent teacher. Just my 2 cents..... God bless, Denny

Amen, oneaccord, Amen!!!!!

Nice post boochie. You used a lot of common sense, which I am sure the Holy Spirit gave you. Nothing to add, just enjoyed.

One, just wanted to let you know. You are not alone on this subject. I have tried to find a way to feel good about this war, but alas I can't. We, as a country sanction abortion on demand, can't even come close to getting a handle on drugs, and have numerous other sins we need to repent from. How can we, of all peoples, fix the world. Just a side note. I have a son and daughter-in-law in Baghdad right now even as we type to each other. I hope and pray that good comes out of this war. And if it does it will be because of God, in spite of what man is trying to do. We liberate, but to what end? If one does not except God's provision for sin, then he is lost. No matter who you are...... whether Jew, or gentile. This includes the muslim we are freeing up. Why do the same people we are liberating, the Iragi's, begin to hate us? I think they are seeing more than we are being told.......... God bless and keep up the good fight, the just fight. Against the world, the flesh, and the devil. The battle is won in Christ Jesus........

Thank you for being so bold and speaking the truth from your heart. Thank you very much for this message.

How many times does one have to get burned. I have been accused of being charismatic, pentecostal and a bunch of other things. I believe I am a born again believer in Jesus Christ, a child of God.

Thank you dad ernie, wordsower and oneaccord. You gave me much to think on. Especially you oneaccord. I am not saying we are right, but at least I am not the only one who thinks the man refers to the Lord. Wordsower I know I have things to give, our idols, usually, things that we want to cling to. Pride, material wealth, habits, thought patterns, you have to "sell" it all to follow Christ. But I see these as something that need destroyed. I can see no value in them at all. Dad ernie, I know generally only one analogy is the correct one. But I am not ready to accept the one you shared as the one yet. Although it seems to be the most common. Oneaccord I have peeked in on your discussion in doctrinal questions and I have enjoyed it. Thanks for the heads up as I will look forward to it with more interest..... :a:

Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field. Mat 13:45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls: Mat 13:46 Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it. I have heard this taught from man's perspective. Such as a man found this treasure of great price or the pearl of great price and sold all he had to obtain it. Referring to the Kingdom of Heaven. My problem with this is that I have nothing to sell to buy the pearl or the field with. However I have a different understanding of this parable and would like your imput. I am not saying I am right, just searching for the truth... I see the treasure or pearl as the body of Christ. And God sold all that He had, i.e. bankrupted heaven, to abtain us. He gave all that we might have all. God must surely see the value in man, when he is redeemed....... bought. I would like your thoughts on this parable so that I may have a more complete understanding of God's word. I will admit that although I have a decent understanding of God's word, it is not a perfect understanding. The parables give me real pause to stop and think..... How about you? :a2:

Rafter Did you read any more of the Sprague story? It's pretty interesting....maybe sickening is the right word. Sickening is the right word.

blessedbygod, I don't want to upset you, but president Bush goes to a Methodist Church. That is what is so interesting that he would not meet with them...............

Thanks oneaccord, I will take that as a real word from a fellow believer............... :a:

Called

Observation on the Road Map Date: 4/30/2003 Note from Bill: This is an interesting observation by Pat Buchanan. This was provided by the National Unity Coalition for Israel. --- Pat Buchanan Warns That "Road Map" Faces Many Obstacles News Max - April 27, 2003 But, Buchanan warns, ".if Powell believes President Bush is going to the mat with Ariel Sharon in an election cycle, he is dreaming." He explains why he believes this, citing what happened to Bush's father after winning the Gulf War when he asked Congress for a brief delay in granting $10 billion in loan guarantees to Israel, until Yitzhak Shamir agreed not to use the money for new settlements, and he was denounced as an anti-Semite by a member of the Israeli Cabinet and excoriated by the Israeli Lobby and its media allies. The political damage done to him helped cost George H. Bush his presidency. "George W. knows that," Buchanan wrote. "Karl Rove knows that. And they know, better than Colin Powell, the forces that will be marshaled against them if they do what Powell has committed President Bush to do, i.e., go to the mat with Ariel Sharon over the West Bank settlements. Buchanan predicts that top administration officials including Vice President Cheney and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld will fight to kill the road map, as will "the Israeli Lobby, neoconservative columnists, Evangelical Christians, House Republicans, and the leadership and presidential candidates of a Democratic Party that will see this as an opportunity to drive a wedge between Bush and his new enthusiasts in the Jewish community." "Finally," Buchanan wrote "there is no hard evidence Bush himself believes that deeply in the road map or is willing to pay the hellish price he would have to pay to impose it upon Ariel Sharon." Just got this off of Koenigs International news. Thought it quite interesting. Things are not always as they seem........

What comes to mind is nineveh. Jonah prophecied a curse on them. However they repented in sackcloth and ashes and the curse was changed. God had mercy on them. Did Jonah's prophecy cause the curse. No it was already coming. His word alerted them and they repented before God. IMHO when someone prophecys something bad over someone it does not make it happen and it is not cursing them. But rather it is warning them so they can repent from God and avert the curse. By the way, In my opinion, a curse by definition, a lack of God blessing us. He blesses the good and the evil. But when He takes His blessing away, it becomes a curse, or lack of blessing on us. Just my two cents.... :a2:

Deliverance ministry is no different than any other ministry such as preaching, teaching, evangilizing, hospitality, etc. in that our human personality gets involved. I do think deliverance ministry can exact a toll on the people doing the delivering. I say this because we, as humans, get in the way of the gifts sometimes. We are to deny ourselves, take up our cross, and follow Jesus. If we do this, we are walking in the Spirit and will not fulfill the deeds of the flesh. When we are where we are supposed to be, than things like deliverance will happen just like when Jesus did it during His time here on earth. The reason is because it will then be done by the same Holy Spirit that ministered when Jesus spoke. Just a thought, and I am not familiar with your wife's need for deliverance, but, biscuit, have you fasted and prayed and sought the Lord's word on what to do for your wife. Are you able to stand in the gap. God will show you where the door is being left open to darkness. We can be free in Jesus through the blood. One last thought, the people who are ministering deliverance are not the ones who will deliver your wife. They may be used, but it is still God who does the deliverance. :x:

Jesus died for the sins of the whole world and as many as come to Him, He will in no way refuse. He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. And no ones comes to God the Father but through Him. :a2: Feel free to add words from the Lord God, but only if you believe they are the truth............ :a2:

Sure why not? I don't know who else would do it for them and do any good. Look at the wonderful job we do in selecting our leaders. tongue in cheek......... :x: