bison.78

Notice that this scripture does not say he the believeth and is baptized not shall be damned. How can one explain that? Doesn't it make sense that Christ would be very specific if both were required for salvation? No disrespect, but this to me seems to be common sense....if you don't believe, you won't be baptized. None taken. We are talking about baptism. One can believe and not be baptised and still go to heaven. Baptism without faith is a work and can not save. Faith without baptism does save. Is faith without Baptism Faith or lip service? James 2:17

If you take the time to notice the responses, no one is kicking against baptism, and no one is saying that it is not necessary. Where we disagree is over what we believe baptism is necessary for. Believing baptism is necssary is one thing. Believing it is necessary for salvation is something else. Just because we do not believe baptism to be essential to one's salvation does not mean we are "kicking against." Shiloh, What is baptism necessary for? Yes I had the same question. In one breath he says it is necessary according to scripture but then contradicts himself by saying it is not necessary. Which is it It is necessary bccause Jesus commanded it. It is not necessary for salvation as the Bible does not teach baptism is required for one to receive eternal life. Eternal life is Jesus and comes only when we accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. Salvation is Jesus + Zero. Anyone who says otherwise is promoting a false gospel. Yes Shiloh, we are agreed on the "why" baptism is neccesary. As was previously noted it is a direct command from Christ and those who heard Him. But the question at hand is what necessitates baptism? another words what makes baptism unavoidable (for that is the definition of the word) for a christian? EricH answered earlier that baptism is necessary as a step of obedience and discipleship. So, taking this view into consideration, I am not a disciple until I am baptized, correct? Your arguments are persuasive, but please fortify your rebuttal with scripture. I would like to know what the answers you are giving are predicated upon. Peace

Yes, hip-hop is a registered religion and its origins are steeped in anti-christ religion. If you are skeptical, do the research... there is no need to completely shun a comment before you have looked into it. we are agreed that Music, as I believe I previously stated, is not evil in and of itself, but I believe the original question was about Christian hip hop and rock. Why, if someone is coming out of sin and coming to God, would we want to remind them of the old life through the music we play? It is fair to say that I don't know the hearts of these artists, but if the artist looks and acts like the world, I'm not paying much attention to the words of the song. People don't follow words so much as they follow actions. I do agree that much of the gospel and comtemporary music we have today comes from the sound of the juke joint, but it wasnt right then and its not right now. We, as human beings, have a tendency to comprise, and flucuate w/ every breeze of the wind, but God never changes. It's important to look at the origins of the cultures that the music is birthed from. And being adverse to my opinion is no reason for being snide. God Bless.

Notice that this scripture does not say he the believeth and is baptized not shall be damned. How can one explain that? Doesn't it make sense that Christ would be very specific if both were required for salvation? No disrespect, but this to me seems to be common sense....if you don't believe, you won't be baptized.

To be a christian means to be christ-like. Ask yourself this question: would Jesus Christ play the lottery? Most people, like me, believe he wouldn't. That is why when your a professing Christian and you are doing something (like gambling) that is worldly, someone will say to you " I thought you were a Christian!"....so much for your witness....enough said.

well said, jesussaves. music follows the heart of its author. King David was a man after Gods own heart. in first Sam we read: And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him. Heres scriptual proof that music can free someone from demonic oppression. And conversely, music can, depending on the heart behind it, cause demonic strongholds. In the mystical interpertation of Ezekiel 28, the King of Tyre is likened to Lucifer or satan. verse 13 says " Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created." The bible also makes mention of it again in Isaiah. Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! Satan is a musician still, and uses music as a primary tool to set up demonic strongholds. Music Genres are not all bad, but the origins of Hip-Hop and Rock are anti-christ. Hip-Hop is not a type of music...it is a type of religion. The doctrine of Hip-Hop says that there is no Jesus Christ and that the black man is God....borrowed from the 5 percent Nation of Gods and Earth doctrine (which is self deification). The meaning of Rock n Roll originally is to fornicate. Satan is looking for ways to infiltrate the church....he doesnt care about the world. He already has them. God desires for His people to be different in every way from the world, not to see how close we can get to the fence. My bible tells me to " Love not the world..." and if I do " the love of the Father is not in me". 2nd Cor 6:17 states " Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,"......how can you have Holy Hip-Hop? thats an oxymoron. If you dont believe that music can cause demonic activity, explain the ever increasing violence played out at Hip Hop and Hard Rock clubs. Who is our allegiance to, Jesus Christ or our favorite christian Rocker/Rapper? visit www.exministries.com or www.nomoreministries.com

Agreed. I think the most detrimental example of this is when secular "superstars" who are living idols to the youth claim to be "converted", are put in front of the Church for entertainment purposes, and then go back in to the "beggarly elements of sin". This is confusing to young people and gives cause for mistrust of the Church of Christ at large. Case and point: "Pastor" MA$E, a very popular rapper in years passed, was "saved", and before he could even have a chance to feed on the sincere milk, he was used "promote" the Gospel (even though Jesus said " if I be lifted up, I'll draw all men on to me.) Long story short, he is currently doing his Hip-Hop music again with the likes of Ganster rapper 50 cents...... The Leadership of the Church definitely has a grave responsibility in this issue....not just to keep themselves pure but for the sanctification of the Church in general.

PTL, folks! My perspective is a little different, and may receive some harsh criticism... dont mean to offend anyone and I know this can be a touchy subject I'm apostolic and believe that baptism and reception of the Holy Ghost is essential for salvation per John 3:5, the rebirth via WATER and SPIRIT and which was fullfilled in ACTS 2:38, when Peter preached repentance, baptism in Jesus' Name, and the reception of the Holy Ghost. As was written earlier, there is no such thing as the "Sinners Prayer" in the Bible. As far as Romans 10:9 being the plan of salvation.....Romans is an epistle written to THE CHURCH....in other words people who are already saved.....for a sinner to come to Romans and use a verse as the plan of salvation is like someone coming in your house and opening mail that is addressed specifically to you. The book of Acts is the only historical book of the new testament and for that purpose it should logically be the book that Christians look to for the plan of salvation. the only way that Peter knew that Cornelius and his family were saved is because they had the same experience the apostles had on the day of Pentecost. If salvation was just believing in your heart, Phillip would not have had the apostles come to Samaria because they would have been saved already. Jesus said " in that DAY you will know that I am in you" Im pretty sure I'll get some flack on this, but its not for strife, jst discussion....