Xan

Neb, you're 4 weeks younger than me! BTW, happy birthday!

"TULIP is deductive, problematic, and not biblical. Monergism-monothetism-determinism ultimately makes God arbitrary and responsible for evil." Indeed. Would you like help in understanding the correct view of monergism? I agree that God alone regenerates, but this is not something settled by decree unconditionally and not apart from a response by man. There are probably a variety of monergistic explanations, so you are welcome to give your opinion for consideration. I think monergists misunderstand and misrepresent synergists. Would you agree with many Reformed types that sanctification is synergistic (verses can be found for a Godward and manward emphasis)? I'm responding to the confusion of the view that monergism ultimately makes God responsible for evil. It's difficult for me to address that directly because I'm unsure of how it does. However, I will show through scripture that man is completely unregenerate and will always choose to reject God if not for His election. Romans 1:18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened." In that passage, Paul is building an arguement to show how God has made Himself revealed to all, but they had rejected Him. Romans 3:10 "as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; 11THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; 12ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE." 13"THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE, WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING," "THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS"; 14"WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS"; 15"THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD, 16DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS, 17AND THE PATH OF PEACE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN." 18"THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES." This clearly says no one seeks after God. So, even with God revealing Himself to man, there is still no one who accepts God and follows after His righteousness without the Holy Spirit doing the work in us. So, please explain how this shows God is responsible for evil.

Zabby, unsubscribe from the email notifications and just read the threads. The threads here are laid out in a very easy manner.

"TULIP is deductive, problematic, and not biblical. Monergism-monothetism-determinism ultimately makes God arbitrary and responsible for evil." Indeed. Would you like help in understanding the correct view of monergism?

In your poll you left no option for both. I believe in the balance system of God. First of all and ultimately God does it all however because God did not want a bunch of robots in His creating he gave us free will and a measure of faith then He presented us with a choice, the choice is up to us and I believe God will allow man to chose against Him and sad to say many do.... What you just described is synergism.

Change of topic - I am just curious if you know the background of this question? (Just being my curioius nerdy self . . . nothing to do with the debate.) I remember this pop-culture marketing phrase all too well. I'm sure Yod does, too as he is much older than me.

No one created statues of George Bush. No one wrote songs of praise to George Bush. George Bush wasn't portrayed with halos and rainbows radiating from his head. George Bush wasn't regarded as a "savior." All four apply to Barak Obama. It's like everyone is being swept into an "O"-cult. And George Bush never talked about establishing civil security or appointed a Chief of Staff who wanted to put everyone between the ages of 18-25 into brain-washing camps.

Oh....how disgusting! It reminds me of the song in the 'Left Behind' series written in honor of the Beast.... It's enough to make even this partial-preterist wonder about Tim Lehay's prophetic song.

No one was saying any of this about John Kerry, Al Gore (except for a very funny skit on MadTV), Bill Clinton, etc, etc... So, obviously, it has nothing to do with disagreeing on viewpoints. It must be about something else. Hmmm... I wonder what that something else is..... Oh, yeah! It had to do with Obama's very own statements and those of his appointed Chief of Staff.

Here are the words: All the voters in America Barack Obama by thy name Thy change shall come Thy will be done As it is an American dream

Oh, great! My entire culdesac voted for Obama.

I would sooner train my children to be revolutionaries than to allow them to go to Obama camps. Yes, I said it. It's in print. When the Obama youth starts going through internet message boards to find dissidents, they will find my statement.

To which conservative are you referring? What words were twisted? You've lost me here........... You're right, MG. It was KatyAnn. You had quoted her when she had chided me for blaming Granholm. You had said Rush Limbaugh had accused the governer in your response to her, and when you said, "To blame Governor Granholm for a quarter of a century of decline is just more partisan maneuvering" it threw me since you seemed to be agreeing with KatyAnn. After re-reading, I realized you were only talking about Limbaugh. I'm sorry. KatyAnn is the only one that twisted my words.

So...Governor Granholm is raising taxes all by herself? I wouldn't think so. I believe that would be done by the state legislature. Why is there no mention of the outsourcing of good paying jobs to Mexico and other countries by the Big Three? G.M., in particular, always leaves an area worse than they found it; they do nothing for any area in which they do business. Yeah, raising taxes isn't a good idea in that state (especially considering the number of people who are out of work)....but it's far from the main reason for the DEPRESSION, not recession, that Michigan finds itself in now. I believe I said that jobs here are NOT ONLY going to other countries but other states....OTHER STATES...Michigan has lost out of business's looking to expand to other areas, and lost Yamaha (the music brand ) and two appliance stores etc....again to other states. No Governor Granholm is NOT raising taxes all by herself, although funny how she threatened to "shut down the state" if taxes weren't raised, and service taxes added to all service's provided in this state (that service tax didn't pass by the way, the repubs stood strong on that one and few dems) Then they all had the GALL to get a raise in salary. Granholm makes these long winded speeches on how business will pay their fair share....tax them high, they leave, the state loses all the income tax from employees...but thats ok, Lansing just raises other taxes and tries to create new ones...the goobers! By the way, other people were held accountable, recall petitions have been flying in Wayne County. But as usual they failed at the polls Tuesday, seems no ones smart enough to get rid of the tax hikers....and that goes for BOTH parties that voted it in. High taxes are a HUGE reason why business is leaving the "state" and no new ones coming in.... You can't tell me anything about MI I dont' already know. Granholm is a terrible gov, period. I have no problem adding the whole of Lansing to that incompetent comment either....but Obama didn't choose "Lansing" he chose Granholm Well said. For the record, KatyAnn an MG, I never blamed the problems soley on one person; I blamed the condition the state is currently in on the liberal (socialist) policies. This is not the first time a conservative's words were twisted to imply something that was never said. I know the fall of the automobile industry started the decline, but as Dave and refuge so eloquently argued, the problems were greatly exacerbated with taxation. I contend that true conservative policies could have turned the state around during the changing industrial times. Michigan (Detroit especially) should stand as a perfect example as to why liberalism doesn't work.

He's thinking about appointing her?!? I went to Detroit this summer for a meeting, and I was apauled! I have never seen an American city in such wretched ruins before. It was the perfect example of Democrat/Socialist policies going horribly wrong.

This is a very good, unbiased look at the current financial situation with regards to our new President-elect. The writer poses some good questions and advice for Obama. http://musiccityoracle.blogspot.com/2008/1...e-priority.html

At some point the kingdom better have dominion or else we are a foolish bunch. I think Jesus demonstrated kingdom dominion theology. He ruled over everything. Including wind and waves. What was wrong with the first paragraph?

The only reason he won was because of the color of his skin. He wouldn't have gotten the Democratic nomination for President if he wasn't black, and he wouldn't have gotten nearly 100 percent of the black vote if he was not black. I even heard one commentator last night say that among white voters, McCain was the winner. It was African-American voters that put Obama over the top. I was working one of the precincts last night, and it was a black woman handing out Obama pamplets. If anything, this will only lead to bad feelings among white voters, as we see the country being destroyed by black voters. 95% of blacks and 45% of whites voted for Obama. Thanks for the info. I had been looking for that information. I remember it was stated that in North Carolina, for Obama to win, he needed 35 or 36 percent of the white vote. The last count I saw had Obama up about 5000 votes, meaning he lost the vast majority of the white vote in this state. If you look at other states where it was fairly close, and there was a heavy black turnout for Obama, you can easily see how that without those votes, McCain would have won the election. Guys, this whole time it has only been the Liberals who had kept bringing up the race card. Let's not sink to the same level. Obama won because our party has not only let down the conservative, America loving people, but the entire country as well. Unfortunately, McCain reaped the fall out.

We did what??? Well, actually we did 28 years ago.

Great posts, Dave and Eric. They are both timely reminders.

So, in your opinion all commentaries and books written by Christians should be avoided?

How would that happen?

I know Reformation Day was a few days ago, so I apologize for the lateness of this post. However, I'm posting this anyway because it's a very poignant and personal look at God's grace. http://musiccityoracle.blogspot.com/2008/1...d-personal.html