asper

Acts 21:9 And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy. yes I tried to correct my post, it had to be at least 4 of them that were daughters, according to this verse. thank you no problem

Acts 21:9 And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy.

thanks for the info...God bless.

hi coheir and bornagain, no big deal. i was just making a observation...God bless

Thank you gentlemen for casting that line out and reeling me in........... I guess I did bounce off the wall a bit. I guess the question I would ask. Those that sound like they are speaking in tongues, what reason to fake it? I have been speaking in tongues for years, and hang around Spirit filled tongue talkers. I can normally tell the presence, Power, anointing of God, whatever when someone is praying in tongues. I get a witness. As for all the other mumbo jumbo like satanic tongues, we have no scripture support. Satan Operates at the level of the mind and flesh. So any thing he tries to mimic will not have any power in it and be all flesh. Jesus said Satan minds the things of man, he is a sight, sound, and natural type devil. Sorry for jumping off the ship, and thank you for bringing back in. borderlines Could you give the study and actual percent? Blessings. hi believeinhim, no problem. what i want to know though is why is there so many with diverse doctrines (not counting the far out ones for now) that are cliaming the gift of speaking in tongues. doesn't doctrine matter? or is it some overlooking by God and giving this gift to many diverse groups? just to let you know, i do know that any group that doesn't profess Christ would be fakers automatically.

I need a scripture that says Satan is able to reproduce this, and it being legit. Also not run into a case of tongues being a badge of some spirituality. There is a sect of Pentecostals that believe if you don't speak in tongues, then your not filled with the Spirit of God, then your not saved. This Article was written by someone who obviously does not speak in tongues and has a agenda against a certain denomination. So he can not be taken seriously. If I want to learn how to fix cars, I go to someone that has been fixing cars for a long time with experience. I don't get lessons from the wife's Hair dresser who does not even know how to check oil. Evidently, will need some scripture support. Luk 11:11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? Luk 11:12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? Luk 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him? Jesus squashed this make believe long time ago. Blessings. Hi believeinhim, Actually you missed the questions and got hung up on whether or not the link was 100% accurate. How many links are? I think that I made my questions clear. It had nothing to do with how accurate the source was on everything, but was only using it for confirmation of the one thing. It had to do with many people who believe different things speaking in tongues. So if you cannot answer the questions then that is ok. Nice diversion though. Let me rephrase the questions for you into one. It comes down to this. Do you think that all (that what they consider speaking in tongues) are doing so from God? I think you might.

That's right. Job was mature in faith. A very interesting word there. The same word was used to describe Jacob in Genesis but translated 'plain' instead. Gen 25:27 And the boys grew : and Esau was a cunning hunter, a man of the field; and Jacob [was] a plain8535 man, dwelling in tents. Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name [was] Job; and that man was perfect8535 and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil. I really don't know what to make of that. But also understand the word 'perfect' there '8535' is used to mean undefiled as well. Interesting stuff. Gary well I think it has already been establish and agreed upon that words can have different meaning. I would agree that words have a range of meaning but we must have a way of understanding when they should be translated which way. Gary and you know better than all the Bible scholars that worked of the translation back in the 1600's it seems that this has gone quite far from the topic. the point that was intended to be made was already made. the word means what it means. there are many applications to the word complete. take it for what you will, but here it is again. 5046. τελειος teleios tel’-i-os; from 5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with 3588) completeness: — kjv translated it as follows. of full age, man, perfect. I am without understanding why anyone feels it helps this thread to continue to post the definition of Teleios. teleios means complete or mature so King James translators, knew as well as anyone else that speaks English should know that complete means perfect or perfection, so there is no wonder, why they would choose perfect, in as the perfect one comes as to the complete one comes, be ye perfect as Your Father is perfect, as to be ye complete as your Father is complete! as anything else can be over abused, as well as trying to prove that a wrong word was used to attack the Holy Word of God in the Authorized English version of Holy Scriptures, has been over abused already in this thread. in those days everyone did what was right in their own eyes, So when the Word of God says to be ye perfect, we have to change the meaning and say well surely He didn't mean for us to be perfect, our Father who art in Heaven Thy WILL BE DONE IN EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN, but seeing we will be perfect in Heaven forget about us being perfect down here we will do it as we see fit down here, ok go ahead and have it your way folks who want to change to word of God, for those that want to lay claim they know more about the meanings of words than anyone else, have it your way! But as I preach in Churches this is not a Burger King religion, you can't serve God and have it your way. i guess the difference between definition and application escapes you. complete is the definition, perfect is a application of that concept.

Are all those speaking in tongues considered legit? What percentage of the people that speak in tongues is actually from God do you think? What sin is a person guilty of who doesn’t actually have the gift of tongues yet thinks that he/she does and goes about speaking in tongues? Why is there so many different belief systems that speak in tongues? I do not wish this topic to become a discussion on whether true tongues exist today but one that questions the validity of so many who claim this gift. For the reference to so many of different belief systems see the link below. http://www.dividedbytruth.org/FD/sitnnc.htm

That's right. Job was mature in faith. A very interesting word there. The same word was used to describe Jacob in Genesis but translated 'plain' instead. Gen 25:27 And the boys grew : and Esau was a cunning hunter, a man of the field; and Jacob [was] a plain8535 man, dwelling in tents. Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name [was] Job; and that man was perfect8535 and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil. I really don't know what to make of that. But also understand the word 'perfect' there '8535' is used to mean undefiled as well. Interesting stuff. Gary well I think it has already been establish and agreed upon that words can have different meaning. I would agree that words have a range of meaning but we must have a way of understanding when they should be translated which way. Gary and you know better than all the Bible scholars that worked of the translation back in the 1600's it seems that this has gone quite far from the topic. the point that was intended to be made was already made. the word means what it means. there are many applications to the word complete. take it for what you will, but here it is again. 5046. τελειος teleios tel’-i-os; from 5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with 3588) completeness: — kjv translated it as follows. of full age, man, perfect.

I plant, you water, but God gives the increase. Good call. Asper, out of curiosity are you hinting at total depravity? Gary of course gdemoss, note i do not accept tulip as completely right, my beliefs line up more with spurgeon I thought that was it. I wouldn't have it any other way. If man were actually capable of turning toward and following God on his own there is nothing, including that ability, that wasn't first given him by God. So why not just place him in a position of total depravity where there is no question as to who gets credit? I am what I am by the grace of God, nothing less, nothing more. My faith comes from God and is a gift. That faith produces specific works in my life that are hand crafted by him that he ordained that I should walk in. Yeah, I didn't get any of it right on my own. My first attempts at understanding scripture was completely carnal and ended in a train wreck. Praise God he didn't leave me there. Gary hi gary, great response. what do you think of this verse?...God bless. Psalms 90:3 Thou turnest man to destruction; and sayest, Return, ye children of men.

I plant, you water, but God gives the increase. Good call. Asper, out of curiosity are you hinting at total depravity? Gary of course gdemoss, note i do not accept tulip as completely right, my beliefs line up more with spurgeon

I can't figure out what you are getting at, perhaps if you would give your understanding first. hi monarchy, i didn't want to tint the replies but the way i would explain it is that man is commanded to repent but that does not seem very likely that he will unless God intervenes. Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

If I were just dealing with the two verses you pointed out here, I would deal with it in this manner: Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Commanded to repent from what? That God can be likened to an idol made with hands when we are actually created in the image of God and therefore ought to be conformed to his actual image or person rather than worship some dumb idol. 2 Timothy 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; Repentance from what? According to the context repentance from following the false doctrines of Satan and acknowledging the truth of God. It is accomplished through patient instruction of those who are deceived which is extremely difficult at best and not for the faint of heart. I wonder many times whether I can continue to repeat the instruction yet again in hope that maybe this time God will grant them repentance but am well aware of Hebrews 6 that explains that there are those who he absolutely will not. Gary let me try again' Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Acts 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life. Romans 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

hi bornagain2011, thanks for your response. perhaps you would answer another question for me. thanks in advance. do you think cain was in God's original plan to be born? 1 John 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother’s righteous.

We know that God commanded all to repent. Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: This verse says that God gives repentance. 2 Timothy 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; I know how I would explain it, but how would you?

hi gdmoss, going nowhere. one of my interests is how commonly quoted verses are misunderstood. this is a clear if, then, statement. which means that when "if" is not correct then you do not proceed with the rest of the statement. but when if is true then you go to the rest of the statement. so then they were to choose between two sets of gods if they thought it evil to serve the Lord. i was just curious on how people would interpret this. God bless

Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD. Would you say that this verse says to choose between the True God and false gods, or does it say if it seem evil to serve the Lord then you are to choose?

Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. would you say that this says that there there will be more people concieved then originally planned? if not what is this really saying?

Let's reverse your disagreement for just a second. telios is also used in Romans 10 "For Christ is the telios (goal) of the law" If we use the current english definition of the word "Perfect" in place of "telios" it says "For Christ is the perfection of the law". That might seem like a possibility but in context Paul is only saying that the goal of the Law is to bring us to an understanding of why we need a sacrifice for sin. Because we are not capable of "perfection" of our own merit. Do you really and seriously believe that God requires absolute perfection (no mistakes) of us? Who could live under that burden of legal requirement? Are you perfect yet? Do you know anyone who is? In the entirety of world history and time there has been only one who was, and they crucified Him for it. i like it, keep up the good work. God bless.

hi larryt, that is not strongs but that is the same as my online Bible greek english. this is strong's 5046. τελειος teleios tel’-i-os; from 5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with 3588) completeness: — of full age, man, perfect.

ok so let's change all doctrine for the perfect Lamb of God didn't Come, the mature Lamb of God came! please! The first thing you need to do is understand that you are reading a translation. That translation is using words from 1611 that have changed meaning over the centuries. I didn't say "mature" is a perfect translation into english, but it's much closer to the concept being conveyed than "without a mistake" as the word "perfect" has come to mean in modern english. Using a phrase like "completely ready" or "full & complete" might better explain the intent in some places.. Secondly, words have more than one meaning and the way they are used is more important than a static definition. Whether you like it or not, the word "perfect" is better translated as "mature" in most places where it is used. so define this one to your specs matt. 5:48 , Be ye perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect. be ye mature as your Father is mature again. Please!!!! I guess next we will have to change the meaning of Holy so that it will fit your teachings be ye Holy for I am Holy hi his disciple 3, perhaps strong's def. will help. 5046. τελειος teleios tel’-i-os; from 5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with 3588) completeness: — of full age, man, perfect. Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. robertson's word pictures, Perfect (τελειοι). The word comes from τελος, end, goal, limit. Here it is the goal set before us, the absolute standard of our Heavenly Father. The word is used also for relative perfection as of adults compared with children. J f b Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore — rather, “Ye shall therefore be,” or “Ye are therefore to be,” as My disciples and in My kingdom. perfect — or complete. Manifestly, our Lord here speaks, not of degrees of excellence, but of the kind of excellence which was to distinguish His disciples and characterize His kingdom. When therefore He adds, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect — He refers to that full-orbed glorious completeness which is in the great Divine Model, “their Father which is in heaven.” you just proved that the word used in greek can mean perfect, thanks !!!! Hi his disciple 3, Complete would be the closest definition as far as I can see. So then it comes to looking at the context to see what is complete is speaking of. Again, (bolded this time) 5046. τελειος teleios tel’-i-os; from 5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with 3588) completeness: — of full age, man, perfect. robertson's word pictures, Perfect (τελειοι). The word comes from τελος, end, goal, limit. Here it is the goal set before us, the absolute standard of our Heavenly Father. The word is used also for relative perfection as of adults compared with children. I could say someone is a mature Christian, I could say that someone is a complete Christian, or I could say that someone is a perfect Christian. Which do you suppose would be better used to give the proper understanding of today’s English? I would say that God is perfect. And I would be right because the completeness spoken of is perfect, although I believe it encompasses much more then that because using the word perfect does not give thoughts to anybody about being complete. So even the word perfect would fall short of what is being said. So the word does mean complete. The word has many applications. note to the last point i assume was added when you edited it. the words after the — (of full age, man, perfect) is how the kjv translated it in various places

ok so let's change all doctrine for the perfect Lamb of God didn't Come, the mature Lamb of God came! please! The first thing you need to do is understand that you are reading a translation. That translation is using words from 1611 that have changed meaning over the centuries. I didn't say "mature" is a perfect translation into english, but it's much closer to the concept being conveyed than "without a mistake" as the word "perfect" has come to mean in modern english. Using a phrase like "completely ready" or "full & complete" might better explain the intent in some places.. Secondly, words have more than one meaning and the way they are used is more important than a static definition. Whether you like it or not, the word "perfect" is better translated as "mature" in most places where it is used. so define this one to your specs matt. 5:48 , Be ye perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect. be ye mature as your Father is mature again. Please!!!! I guess next we will have to change the meaning of Holy so that it will fit your teachings be ye Holy for I am Holy hi his disciple 3, perhaps strong's def. will help. 5046. τελειος teleios tel’-i-os; from 5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with 3588) completeness: — of full age, man, perfect. Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. robertson's word pictures, Perfect (τελειοι). The word comes from τελος, end, goal, limit. Here it is the goal set before us, the absolute standard of our Heavenly Father. The word is used also for relative perfection as of adults compared with children. J f b Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore — rather, “Ye shall therefore be,” or “Ye are therefore to be,” as My disciples and in My kingdom. perfect — or complete. Manifestly, our Lord here speaks, not of degrees of excellence, but of the kind of excellence which was to distinguish His disciples and characterize His kingdom. When therefore He adds, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect — He refers to that full-orbed glorious completeness which is in the great Divine Model, “their Father which is in heaven.”

I gave you the scripture. If being in Christ we are neither male of female, what dos that say about Christ? Understand that there is no need for gender when we are with God. We will not need to reproduce. If we are to be like Christ, not having gender speaks of the likeness of Christ. I doubt very much that anyone can find an instance so I will look at the verse presented which was used to question the sex of Jesus Christ in his unearthly body. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. Clearly it is talking about us not being male or female. Not Jesus Christ. In context Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. I believe that it’s talking about that man is not over the woman in this sense of being the child of God. Not that we are sexless. What purpose would being male or female grant us in our next life? Are you inclined to believe that we will be married and have families? Matthew 22:30 and Mark 12:25 "For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven." Though scripture does not come right out and say that there will be no gender in heaven, many do hint of it. Hi onelight, I would agree except for the fact it is in the present tense, there is no indication of it being future Galatians 3:28 There is <1762> (5748) neither <3756> Jew <2453> nor <3761> Greek <1672>, there is <1762> (5748) neither <3756> bond <1401> nor <3761> free <1658>, there is <1762> (5748) neither <3756> male <730> nor <2532> female <2338>: for <1063> ye <5210> are <2075> (5748) all <3956> one <1520> in <1722> Christ <5547> Jesus <2424>. TVM: Present 5774, Not Stated 5799, Indicative 5791, Count: 1617 The present tense represents a simple statement of fact or reality viewed as occurring in actual time. In most cases this corresponds directly with the English present tense. Some phrases which might be rendered as past tense in English will often occur in the present tense in Greek. These are termed "historical presents," and such occurrences dramatize the event described as if the reader were there watching the event occur. Some English translations render such historical presents in the English past tense, while others permit the tense to remain in the present. Tell me, is Jesus the same yesterday, today and tomorrow? I also would like to know why you have gone down this path? What does being neutered have anything to do with not having a gender? hi onelight, of course Jesus is the same but what has that to do with His plan? is the world flooded every day? does He deliver the israelites from the egyptians every day. and neuter not neutered is the word that was being discussed. You can't compare Jesus not changing to how he works with His creation. He does not change, but how He deals with us does. Apples and oranges. i think i said that Then why are you asking if He does the same thing every day? The word that was being discussed was perfect. actually i wasn't asking i was Preempting. so when you asked me does Jesus ever change what were you getting at? quote Tell me, is Jesus the same yesterday, today and tomorrow?

hi gdemoss, yes if i understand you correctly this was discussed by believe in him

hi his disciple 3, it does not say perfect one. it says that which is perfect. not he who is perfect. i would not refer to Jesus as that. 1 Corinthians 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. so do tell us from scripture when knowledge vanishes? could that be referring to behold the Kingdom of God is at hand?, could That, mean the new heaven and earth which will be perfect, maybe we don't know but one thing we can be sure of knowledge, didn't vanish with scriptures! hi his disciple 3, don't know exactly but this is how i see it. (this is a belief, not a presentation of facts so no one should feel obligated to believe me on this, but to me it makes sense) 1 Corinthians 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity. whether there be prophecies, goes with these verses, 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. whether there be tongues, they shall cease, goes with this verse, 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away., goes with this verse. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.