CWJ

I would like to point out that there is no verse in the Bible that says rejecting Christ will cause your name to be blotted out. It is: Sin Taking away from God's Word

Psalms 69:27-28..."Add iniquity to their iniquity, And let them not come into your righteousness, (28)..Let them be blotted out of the book of the living. And not be written with the righteous." "Not written" is the same as being blotted out. The CONTEXT of 2Peter 2:20 is set by the example of the sow and the dog, NOT being made a new creature. The parable of the sower shows these type to be "not really saved". Still none has shown any scripture that says one can become un-re-born.

Adstar....the pig and the dog were never made a NEW CREATURE...they remained the same under all the "looks" of "escaping the pollutions" Since when does "escaping the pollutions of the world" or just "having knowledge of the Lord Jesus" mean you are actually re-born? NEW CREATURE--Galatians 6:15.."For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creature." KNOWLEDGE--James 2:19.."You beleive there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe,--and tremble!" One can really know the scripture so well, one could be the model christian and still not be saved Luke 8:12..."Those by the wayside are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved ." They "looked" like christians, but were never re-born and made a new creature. Notice the one-time present tense of "and be saved " in the above verse. The devil knows ...once saved always saved. :il: :il:

Dad Ernie go back and re-read some other post I was answering about the age of accountability, not yours. I agree with what you have said. I agree that if you reject Jesus THEN you are blotted out. God wants ALL to repent and be saved. Read 2Peter3:9. This makes it logical that ALL names are begun in the book of life. Do a study and you will see that only ones who do not do the will of the Lord are blotted out. His will is that ALL should repent. Don't have belief with repentance, you don't get saved...you get "blotted out". So this name written in at the foundation of the world is NOT a predestination thing, it is God loving and wanting each and everyone to repent...so much that He enters ALL names......but you choose to receive or reject Him. Rev 3:5 guarentees that if you get re-born you will not be blotted out. Definition of an overcomer in Rev 3:5 is found at 1John 5. This shows that one who is born of God is an overcomer....Jesus told us in John 3 that one must be re-born to see that kingdom of heaven. In John 3:16 He tells us how to get re-born. As for infants killed in abortion...where do they go?...if you say heaven...then when did their names get written in the book of life? Read Psalms 69.

So far Dad Ernie...hooray!...I'm with you 99% in what you posted. Endure...you just don't understand what being re-born means. Look up the definition of an overcomer in the bible....it's in 1John 5. Your post just nowhere shows that we "loose" salvation once having received it. Where are you getting scriptural evidence of the entering of names in the of life? Where is your scriptural evidence of God blotting one's names out when they reach the age of accountability? What is that age? Scriptures? How do you reconcile your teaching in light of the present tense posession told us by God in 1 John 5: 13... "These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God." One who is re-born HAS eternal life NOW! ETERNAL does NOT end! Read the promise of our loving Lord and Saviuor.

In light of many debates on OSAS or OSNAS I feel this subject about the book of Life has a bearing on the truth. So I'll begin with a few questions, hoping for a scriptural analysis in answers. When is a name entered? Who gets blotted out? How many times can one's name be written and then blotted, and then written in again? I hope this will be an enlightening discussion. Blessings, Carl

Because they are lukewarm...they will not answer His call to repentance ..which is the requirement for re-birth. They are NOT depending on the Lord Jesus, but feel they need nothing. They "go to church", but are not the church. Lost to repentance. In order to have "white garments" one must be born of God. Obviously the Laodiceans are un-saved. Vomitting out of His mouth is obviously a figurative of His disgust with such behaviour and unrepentance. If you study about the book of life you will see that every person is written in, don't get saved, then blotted out.

And who is the one that completes this "process"....which is a guarentee in scriptures? Clue.....it's not the saint.

Shiloh...I really like that about the "application"!

1 Peter 4:18...but they are saved 2 Peter 1:9..you are using one verse to make a doctrinal constant without paying attention to context..which will result in a pretext as you have done. This meaning is not that only your old sins are the thing forgiven, the context is describing the saved condition and a how a saints walk should proceed. Remember that we are cleansed from sin in a spiritual sense, that is; the spirit is upon re-birth forever sin-free, covered by the redemption of the Lord Jesus' blood. The flesh will still sin, and therefore suffer the physical death; but the spirit that is re-born HAS eternal life. 1John 1:9..It does not say we must confess our sins in order to be forgiven for them, BUT does sayIF we confess... ...This action bya saint is a fruit of being born of God 1John 2:29...If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him. Wander away? and loose protection? How can you undo what God has done, and stop Him from finishing His creation? Phil 1:5-6..."for your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now, (6)being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ." Jude 24..."Now to Him who is able to keep you from falling, and present you faultless Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy."

That one must be re-born to see the kingdom of heaven.

Blind...I think I see where you are coming from...but would you please go a little farther with an explanation? I eagerly await.

Repentance, perserverance, obedience, endurance, are all fruits of being re-born. If one is truly saved, Jesus said that one will bear fruit. Matt 13:8....But others fell on good ground and yeilded a crop; some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. These who bear fruit are the creation of Jesus, and He has created a saint to do those good works We do good works because we are saved...not to get saved. Eph 2:10...For we are His workmanship,created in Christ Jesus for (unto) good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. It is a gift of God does anybody ever work for a gift? It is His power that saves...read 1Cor 1:18... "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing" What is the message of the cross? Jesus said "it is finished". He did the work. If you claim you control any part of your walk after getting saved...in order to stay saved...then you are depending on your ability to do a good work and contradict this scripture amoung many: Phil 2:13..."for it is God who works in you both to will and to do His good pleasure." There are so many scriptures that testify to God's will of eternal assurance to the believer, you have but to receive His word. It's called LOVE. "For God so LOVED the world....... Also this gospel makes True Christianity unique amoung ALL religions of the world because salvation is an unconditional gift, un-earned by any kind of good work. All other lies of religions of the world have a system of "good works" that you must do for the reward of salvation, whatever that definition according to that religion may be of what salvation is. Freedom, Liberty, Rest, these are the words of life eternal. The words of the One True God, our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. :il:

Continuing is a fruit of being re-born...the state of being resulting from receiving the GIFT OF GOD, not of works lest any man should boast. We are created unto good works...We continue because we are saved We don't continue to get saved. Salvation is the horse....good works are the cart that follows.

Right on Shadow2b...amen

Ro 3:24...being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus..... Ro 3:26...to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus." Ro 4:16...Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all." Past ...present...and future....I am thinking that my walk has a timeline too. In our human terms we have a past, present and future. My walk is a state of being...that being a re-born child of God. An overcomer.

Amen Tyler...the new creature...re-born of God....the overcomer......eternal life in the present 1John 5:13.... OSAS......not a lie...but the truth. One must understand the miracle of re-birth...what it takes for the Holy Spirit baptism to change ones spirit by Jesus. 1Peter 3:21.."There is also an antitype that now SAVES US--baptism (not the removal of the fiflth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ." So we see that our good works of no sin (the removal of the filth of the flesh), does not SAVE us....... But...repentance (the answer of a good conscience toward God), results with Jesus baptising us with the Holy Spirit (baptism) The 1Peter 3:21 lays this out plainly. Eph 4:5..."one Lord, one faith, ONE BAPTISM." John the baptist told us which baptism this would be, done by Jesus, the Baptism of the Holy Spirit...through the resurrection of Jesus, and ones proper belief in such. This is confirmed by John 7:39..."But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified." True repentance results in true salvation....an eternal one.

eric...keep that gun holstered buddy. Like others who think salvation can be lost, you are hung up on the "what if' about a last minute sin. If from the whole council of the Lord you think there is a condition that you must ask forgiveness for every sin (will you remember them all?), Then....Jesus need not die for the forgiveness of sins...as your asking for forgiveness will do the job. (a good "work") Also this would put salvation in your power, contradictiing 1Cor 1:18. My scriptures say He died for ALL my sins, past present and future. For when He died ALL my sins were future. He paved the road ahead of me with forgiveness. One must understand the miracle of re-birth...the spirit is now seperate from the flesh..so to speak. The sin is still in flesh but not your spirit. Hope this helps you see.....

eric, then how do you reconcile 1John 5:13 claiming we have eternal life. Eternal never ends ...right? If 1John 5:13 is held to be true then our eternal life begins in the now. (actually upon being re-born.....saved) present tense. So...if you say you can loose, give up, walk away,or whatever from eternal life....then did you ever have eternal life? (eternal doesn't end) Where does the scripture say we become un-re-born? How do we know when good enuff is good enuff? (our good works) Which if you can't do anything to earn salvation, then how could you ever do anything to loose salvation? Questions to be answered...heh?

You must understand the miracle of re-birth by the Holy Spirit baptism. Jesus makes your spirit clean and spotless with His payment of shed blood. Your nasty ole flesh will die cause it's not re-born, but stays in sinfulness. Ya know Paul wrote about the spirit and the flesh at war with one another. The new creature, His workmanship created in Christ Jesus.

I think my meaning is clear.

Well simply it is the state of being which is permanent. We are new creatures, re-born of God, now children of God. Possessing eternal life. Spritually sinless state of being. 1John 5:13.."These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God." By believing (with repentance), we get re-birth of the spirit which is eternal. Present tense...."that you may know that you have eternal life. 1John is full of the guarantee...signed sealed and deliverd....by JESUS

Very good answers. You all have saved me some searching. Yes to the answer that He went to hades and not hell, and brought the saints to heaven from there.

OK.....I have to leave for work now, but wanted to put this up. I haven't had time to do any scripture searching at all. When Jesus descended for three days, what excactly happened? there are some beliefs out there that are totally wrong, yet I have found something that is totally surprising compared to that. Let's "search the scriptures" gang!

You go Dr. Luke! Not feeling like ranting, but humbled by the Word of God..... :il: