Streetsweeper

Agreed. The original post seems to be more intent on creating an argument about Bible translations than discussion of soteriology.

What a bizarre and depressing distortion of scripture! Yes, the Church is recognisable in Old Testament prophecy and the Bible passages utilised by Mr Kelly are relevant to the discussion. However Mr Kelley

Sorry, I don't understand what your saying. I've just re-read 1 Thessalonians 4 & 5. There's a whole heap of tantalising imagery about resurrection of the saints, and the gathering together of the whole body of Christ. It looks like a pretty straightforward declaration of the last day, but it's also nice to think of the rapture as the final crossing of the Jordan.

Is that really the motivation for all the wild predictions of the year, month, day, hour and minute of Jesus return? What could that possibly accomplish? Am I more Christlike by predicting Jesus will appear Tuesday morning at 10:35 am - just after morning tea? This life/world is not a game show where we get bonus points for being the person who picks the time closest to Jesus return. Yes, watch the signs in the world, and know the time of Jesus return is getting closer. Have confidence that Jesus will return because the course of world history is following the pattern Jesus outlined to us. If I am disinterested in Jesus return, then am I really committed to Him. If I'm not prepared for Jesus then Revelation 3:3 is a pretty good warning that I'm not going to be given 48 hrs notice to get my heart in order. The unprepared person won't know the hour when Jesus will come against him. The prepared person won't know the hour when Jesus will come for him.

Two credits for Rufus Yes, we watch the condition of the world. We see the seasons. The very problems of lawlessness and persecution affirm that God's plan is on track. These things are not unexpected. We know Jesus will return. We do not know when Jesus will return. That much discussed and longed for event will happen without warning - Like the coming of a theif in the night.

I'm not allowed to vote. I guess it's something to do with me being a newbie to the forums. I'm assuming that the emphasis of the poll was about the dispensational pre-trib rapture. I was going to vote 'No', although wasn't happy with the way that option was worded. It's not just a matter of implication from historical records that the rapture is not Biblical. The Bible simply doesn't support the notion of pre-tribulation rapture. Philip