Doowopjock

I agree with this completely. I am an American by my natural birth, which has an end--therefore my American citizenship will end someday. I am a Christian by my rebirth, which is of the Holy Spirit, Who is alive forever, which makes me alive forever right now (the only change I'll see is that I'll someday have another body--a real good deal as far as I'm concerned since this one is pretty-well worn slap-dab out by now). I know some folx do this, and it's between them and God as to why they do it--but for myself, anyway, I'm hesitant to get my patriotism mixed in as an intregal part of my faith. The world my permanent and everlasting citizenship is in is not in this world; I never have found anything in God's Word to indicate that it's a Christian's duty to make this world a better place to "leave".

So true to the man--all we have to go by is our judgement of his service, and only then are we told to just avoid them (Rom. 16:17). God is still the only Judge, still the only One who sees the heart of the man. Even in this, though, I find myself inadequate to properly do alone with regard to the growing of the Spirit within me. I take a lot of comfort, though, in a couple of passages from Scripture that seem to indicate to me that I don't have to "be in charge" of monitoring myself as much as to "be responsive" to the One Who does: "Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting." (Psalm 139:23-24) If God is no respecter of persons (Rom. 2:11), then I know He will do for me what He did for David in this Psalm--believing that His answer in the affirmative to David corresponds with His desire for all mankind (II Peter 3:9). "Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you." When I stray off the narrow pathway (Matt. 7:14) upon which my steps are ordered (Psalm 37:23), I can trust my conscience to lead me back because I can trust God to be in charge of my conscience. There are those who say this negates the idea of having free-will. Not so. With my free-will, I freely choose to give the same free-will back to the One Who gave it to me for the sake of safe guidance on my life's journey (Jer. 10:23; Prov. 20:24). By so doing, I come to know the Truth (John 8:32) and discover I have more free-will than what I started with--even more than I could ever have imagined (John 8:36; Eph. 3:20).

I don't know everything that was going on with Adam and Eve at the time all this took place, but if Eve was my wife back then I believe I would have been inclined to have been there with her so I could have kept her from being suckered by a snake. The only time I ever was married, I was very protective of my wife because I felt responsible for her well-being. That's not to say I condemn Adam from my incomplete knowledge of their circumstances back then. Just that I don't think one was any more at fault than the other. Men ARE to be the head of the woman--IN A LOVING WAY ONLY. The love I had for my wife would have necessitated my being present with her if she was being tempted.

...that I've been saved for 38+ yrs. now and no matter what all I've learned and accomplished in that time, I STILL haven't got that one down yet. Luke 23 34 Then Jesus said,

...that I've been saved for 38+ yrs. now and no matter what all I've learned and accomplished in that time, I STILL haven't got that one down yet.

SF - What of Deborah? Good point. Jesus also reached an entire nation beginning with a woman at a well (Samaria) and Mary Magdalene, I believe, was the first to see Him resurrected. I'll grant you they're hard to live with a lot of times, but you gotta admit, they've sure enough got their places of honor just as we men do. I sorta think that's why we're told in the Word that in Christ there is no male or female--and I take it to mean there's no respect of gender in the same sense that there's no respect of persons. Understand, I think a woman is better off with a man (my own opinion, admittedly) and a lot of men are better off with a woman. But I don't take nothing away from their individuality either. The Word tells us that in the last days when He pours out His Spirit on all flesh your sons and daughters will prophesy. I reckon there's enough work to go around for everybody to have a hand in ushering in the kingdom, man OR woman.

Oh that is an interesting aspect! Please start that post. fascinating... I started a thread on this in Gen. Discussion titled "Looking Upon One's Heart, (Is What You See REALLY What You Get..??)"

My views are the same as they were when I said this a month ago: I'm thankful I don't have to concern myself with who is elected.... ....and neither do you if you're a Christian, although you certainly have the right to worry about it if you so choose. God's Word tells us that He alone has control over who sits in power in what country throughout all ages. Consider Psalms 75:6-7; Dan. 2:21; 4:17; Rom. 13:1; I Pet. 3:22. You can either believe He still is in control today, as He has always been (John 10:30; Heb. 13:8 ), or suffer the effects of the curse of not believing (Psalm 146:3; Jer. 17:5; Luke 21:26). Whether you're fan of Bo & Joe or Mac & Cheese* makes no difference--God is no respecter of persons and He is still in control. Debate the relative "merits" of each candidate all you want, but if you're a Christian don't waste a lot of your own peace in concern over something out of your hands. Just know the reason it is out of your hands is because God has it all in His. Claim the promise of Psalm 91:8 and sit back and enjoy the spectacle of what He will do. And you know--this also applies to the so-called financial crisis. God bless y'all. *"cheese"--my own particular reference to Sarah Palin at the time; I thought she was a bit "cheesy" when I first saw her on TV.

Some have said (and some still do) that the idea of "knowing a person by their fruits" is applicable to Christians, even though Jesus used this in saying how to identify wolves in sheep's clothing, a.k.a. "false prophets" (Matt. 7:15-20). We know from God's Word that while man looks on the outward appearance, God sees the heart (I Sam. 16:7), and I believe--personally anyway--that I'm not capable to judge a man's actions by his motives because of this. I wonder why some people do the things they do--including many Christians. But the only thing I find whereby I can "judge" a man at all is to mark them and avoid them if they bring forth a doctrine I have not received (from God's Word I surmise) at Rom. 16:17. In so doing, I am judging the doctrine they bring--a "thing"--rather than the person, which is consistent with how I have learned Scripture at places such as I Cor. 2:15 and I Thes. 5:21. By the same token, I wonder enough times why I do the things I do, or at least would think of doing, which I know would not please my Lord Jesus Christ. Even with the best of intentions I can muster, there are times when I fail--even miserably. I take comfort in knowing that I can go to Him and ask forgiveness then and for strength not to make the same mistake (I John 1:9). But I think He knew most of us--probably, I dare say, ALL of us--were gonna "mess up" along the way even AFTER we were saved. It's not written, but I would be willing to bet anything that immediately after He gave us our ONE commandment to replace the Law He fulfilled for us that we could never keep, to "love one another" (John 13:34), He probably thought to Himself, "And you folx are gonna have your hands full just trying to keep that ONE command, but it'll be enough to keep you occupied with what you need most." It is for this reason I believe that God is not nearly as interested in "what" we do as He is in "why" we are doing it. Paul himself said that nothing of itself was unclean (I take this to mean "sinful"), but to him that esteems it to be unclean it is, whatever "it" is. (Rom. 14:14). Please don't MISunderstand--I'm not saying He's not concerned at all with "what" we do, only not as much as "why". I hate to make this OP too long, but to illustrate (I hope) better, what follows is an excerpt from an open letter to a brother-in-Christ with whom I have a sharp disagreement, even though he claims Jesus as Lord and Savior. I don't doubt his sincerity, I just can't in good conscience (i.e., in "faith"--Rom. 14:23) agree with him in the instant matter: ....I've never been to California, but I'm told there is a highway there which runs for several miles along the Pacific coastline with a mountain-range on the opposite side of the road, and that some of those mountain-peaks are noticeably higher than the rest. It's said that when flying in a plane over the same mountain range, the heights of those same peaks are hardly distinguishable, one from the other. With our finite minds and limited understanding of all of God's ways, we often find certain actions more readily identified as sin than others. We're on the ground-level, so to speak, and so is our perspective. God's vantage-point would be closer to that of the plane. To Him, apparently, sin is sin (James 2:10). It's hard for even men who are saved to see how everything listed in Gal. 5:19-21 can merit equal evaluation in His eyes. Nevertheless, it is so written, whether we completely understand it or not. I don't pretend to understand your stance on this matter.....Your particular mountain-peak may look higher than mine in spite of the fact that Jesus tells me if I hate in my heart, it's the same as murder. But I'm seeing you from my own mountain, which I haven't yet grown the faith to move. I know there's a more clear view above both of us, and that there's a day coming when we both shall know even as we ourselves are known. While it's true we are to judge all things (I Cor. 2:15; I Thes. 5:21), it's equally true that people aren't "things". When a person names the name of Jesus as his Lord, his Savior, his Redeemer, even if I disagree with certain steps in his walk with Christ, the judgement of the MAN is of the Lord. I can only withdraw from him if he shows fruits that reveal him to be an imposter (Matt. 7:15-20). So no, I don't understand how you can believe the way you do, true enough. But I'm certainly not qualified to "cast the first stone". Nor would I ever to someone I believe to be--SOMEHOW--a part of the Body of Christ. God bless you, brother. ...

Oh that is an interesting aspect! Please start that post. fascinating... OK. Lemme see what I can do.

I think Elvis said it best in his song "Hard-Headed Woman": "Adam told Eve, 'A-listen here to me-- Now don't you let me catch you messin' 'round that apple tree..!!' " (Back before you were born...remember kids..??) Naw--serious, though. I think it's pretty hard to tell why somebody does the things they do--man OR woman. God sees the heart, and I often wish I could. As frustrated as I get sometimes with those who matter to me (family, friends, etc.), I all too often find I just don't understand their reasons for the things they do that concern me. I'm pretty-well persuaded by now that God Himself isn't nearly as concerned with "what" we do as much as "why" we do it. But maybe that's a proper subject for another thread.

I believe I am always saved and that I will not be "born again" unto salvation a second time, only rescued from my own mistakes as I follow the steps my Lord has ordered for me to walk. I do not believe the idea of OSAS gives me "license" to practice lawlessness. I do have liberty, yes--for where the Spirit of the Lord is there is liberty. But liberty and "license" are two very different things. The desire the new birth puts within me longs for the things that please God, and wars against the flesh still hanging on "for dear life", as it were. But I am definitely once saved, and always saved. I never knew how to save myself in the first place, let alone how to keep myself saved; but my Savior does. I trust in Him that He knows what He's doing (even when, admittedly, most of the time I don't). I trust, therefore, that my salvation is "safe", simply because I know in Whom I entrust it to.

Uhhhmm...whoops..!! Swordfish, with all due respect, I wouldn't touch this one with a ten-foot pole..!! It surely does seem like, though, that women can be deceived just like the men. I know if I had a quarter for every time I've been fooled in my life I could have paid off the mortgage by now.

Isn't this the same thing Paul was talking about when he mentioned the struggle of crucifying (the flesh) daily..?? Or that what was willing to do good was present within him, but that which he would do he didn't do and that which he didn't want to do he did..?? I think we all struggle against the flesh with the Spirit growing within us, much like a seed having to travel upwards through a lot of "dirt" before it ever blooms into what it is intended to be. The double-mind seems to only get smaller as it dies daily. Aren't we told to take every "thought" into captivity and be renewed in our minds..?? At least, this is what I get from it--it all seems to go together to me.

Amen. Even the Scripture tells me that I am dead and my life is hid with Christ in God. I think it was Shakespere who once said, "Silence is the perfectest herald of joy; I were but little happy if I could say how much." Likewise, to be able to say in words what God is, even by use of every adjective of praise available at one's disposal, would leave far too much unsaid. I believe there's really no such thing as "all" of God, not the way we use the word "all". I believe the closest one can come to that is in the Person of Jesus, Who is the Fullness of the Godhead "bodily". Are there words in any universal language that can summarily tell how wonderful our God is..??

I disagree. Eve made not just one but many mistakes. She disobeyed God because she knew that she was not supposed to eat of the fruit. She didn't believe her husband. She listened to satan and was seduced. She believed satan over God when satan told that she would not die. And she became like satan in that she wanted to be a god like God. Knowing good and evil. She became vain and prideful. I don't disagree that all these things were mistakes. I was only referring to the one mistake she made in evaluating whether or not to partake of the fruit from the tree that was forbidden. The fact that it was good for food and pleasing to the sight was OK, because God had made the trees to be that. But when she saw that it was a tree that would make one "wise", THAT was her one mistake in using it as a deciding factor of whether or not to partake of its fruit (and, of course, believe the serpent in so doing). Apparently God never intended wisdom to befit mankind to come from the ground he was to walk on and have dominion over. At least, this is what I get from the story.

It literaly reads 'and you become as Elohim (God)' The serpent used the same term of divinity throughout: 'Did God (Elohim) really say' 'you (pl) shall become as God (Elohim) I cannot see why in the first instance it is singular and then the next plural. I've looked at scripture4all.org and did not see any indication that signals any difference. I'm not really that much given to doubtful disputations. I know a lot about some things and some about a lot of things, including that there will always be someone who knows more than I do and someone who knows less. There are things in the Word that I don't understand either. But I take comfort in knowing that I know all I need to know today and if tomorrow comes, God will make sure I need to know anything new then that I would need to know then. Much of what we don't know falls under the heading of Deut. 29:29 (i.e., not our business but only God's) while other things fall under Prov. 25:2 (He conceals and we search the matter out even as would honor kings). I believe He knew exactly the right words to choose for the way they would be translated into and understood by users of English before that was ever a language. God does not have this 'knowledge of evil' because he is Holy. Did satan tell the truth saying that they would become like God 'knowing' good and evil, implicating that God 'knows' evil? Oh I disagree completely that there is anything that God doesn't know.

_____- 1. I understand-"not THAT INTERESTED". Babies, such as yourself(1 Cor. 3:1), have a short attention span, and choke on meat-they need to stay on a milk diet(1 Cor. 3:2. Hebrews 5:12). Meat is only to be fed to mature adults, not babies-Hebrews 5:14. I apologize. I should have realized, after reviewing some of your posts(loosely employed here), that you were just a kid-"lots" of scribble, pouting, "grade school" comments devoid of scripture. 2. "I would like to know your point." I understand. I never confuse a child's lack of reading comprehension skill, with error on the part of what I wrote. "Understandest thou what thou readest?"(Acts 8:30) No. Night night, kid. Is that "tooooooo long"? In Christ, John Whalen Do you have to practice at being a jerk, or does it just come naturally? ____ Condescending, critical, non-edifying, without specific content critique(i. e., "sound bites trying to "show off" on this forum), pouting, "grade school" comments such as "JM, your posts are toooooo long.I would like to know your point, but I am not THAT INTERESTED", need to be rebuked . Children need to be scolded/rebuked at times-this is a biblical principle. His comments did nothing to edify, nor did it add anything to the command to speak "... sound doctrine...."(Titus 2:1). Thanks for your opinion. In Christ, John M. Whalen Hi John..!! I agree that your posts are a bit long--for "posts". However, as I get time, I do plan to go back and read over them thoroughly with a bit more attentiveness than what I have time for on just one session here at Worthy; I believe they deserve that much focus. I'm a bit slow sometimes gathering enough of myself to put into what could properly, for me, be called an exhaustive study. Still, because you use God's Word as support, and for that very reason alone--I know that whether we agree or disagree it can be nothing but profitable for me to look into. Thank you for your input. Again, I hope soon to be able to "bring to the table" as much as you apparently have here. I can say the same thing for all of you. I know and am fully persuaded in what I cling to as my own salvation that I have worked out with all I know of fear and trembling according to God's Word. But I also know that we all have a "piece of the same Rock" that Simon bar-Jona did in Matt. 16:18, like pieces of a giant jigsaw puzzle. I believe we are ALL blessed when we hold our own piece up next to that of a brother- or sister-in-Christ in that we all get a slightly better look at the bigger picture. Again--thank you, everyone.

I can't resist--there are so many intelligent minds here that fishing for your insight is an enriching experience I don't really have adequate words to summarily describe (meant in all sincerity without an ounce of facetiousness--and you would understand if you'd come from some of the places I've been). This is another one I want to share with those of you here and be in humble gratitude for all you would care to share with me. God bless you all. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I have come to the conclusion over time that being rich isn't about how much I have; it's about how much I can do without. Because beyond food, clothing, and shelter, all else the world can offer is just so much "icing on the cake". But I've noticed recently from God's word something that seems to go together. See what YOU think: "The blessing of the Lord, it maketh RICH, and He addeth no sorrow with it." (Prov. 10:22) I don't want to ask God to make me rich, and risk getting what I pray for without realizing it's something I'd rather not have. Instead, I want to ask Him to BLESS me so that I may be rich with no sorrow added to it (or, as some would say, with no strings attached). Realizing that He understands anyway--regardless how I word it (Psalm 139:2)--my own personal preference for wording it carefully is so the whole host of Heaven (or, "cloud of witnesses"--Heb. 12:1) can understand, if it's necessary for them to do so, that I'm asking according to His Word, which I believe is synonymous with His will (I John 5:14). Maybe an over-precaution on my part, but at least I get to hear for certain what I'm asking. "Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest PROSPER and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth." (III John 1:2) How does my soul prosper..?? How may the rest of me prosper with it..?? When I am not in health, do I need to stop and take a look at my life and where I am in relation to what I know of God's revealed will to me..?? Is this a SECRET that I must find the answer to..?? Am I in the DARK about what the answer might be..?? Check this out: "And I will give thee the treasures of DARKNESS and hidden riches of SECRET places, that thou mayest know that I, the Lord, which calleth thee by thy name, am the God of Israel." (Isaiah 45:3) I believe that in order to know what being "rich" is, and how to best utilize the riches God has blessed me with is to seek His answers in His Book. There's not another Book like it--never has been, never will be.

It is the wisdom...i.e, KNOWLEDGE of good and evil that is the problem here. Yes of course the Bible supports free will. We have free will but what does that mean? Freedom must be defined by parameters to exist at all. We are not as much free from something but free "To" something. This is real freedom. Let me use an allegory...We here in the United States claim that we are a "Free" people. We posess freedom. We have the freedom to choose to obey the laws of the land or disobey. It is in keeping the law that we find our freedom. We are free "To" keep the law. If we do break the law the sphere of our freedom decreases, i.e. we are moving AWAY from freedom into bondage. Now apply that to God and His Holy law, which, to our bane, is unkeepable. (Is that even a word?). None-the less we are free to live by it and inevitably fail...no freedom there. Thank God the Law has the inherent benefit of pointing us to our freedom- Christ Jesus! We are free "To" Christ; not "From" him. Is anything I am saying making any sense at all? In my studies I have come to the conclusion that "Free will" was created in Gen 1:3-5... "And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and god divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and tghe morning were the first day." God is not describing the creation of the Sun, stars or moon here. That creation is clearly represented in Gen 1:14-18. It is my belief that what He created here was awareness of the spirit. Light/day= understanding/knowing oneself as defined by God---it is good Darkness/Night= ignorance/no self awareness---whether ir be intentionally or not it is not called good (Albeit is not called bad either- it simply "Is") John 3:19-21 clearly states that men CHOOSE to remain ignorant of the awareness (Good light) of God because of their sinful nature. This perpetrates within us what I call "The double sting of sin" . First it kills us (death=lack of purpose in God) and the very knowledge of it deters us from seeking the light from the only One who can give us that purpose-i.e. light. The foundation of light/darkness was the foundation necessary to create beings with free will-The angels and mankind. Why the creation of free willed beings then who have no power over evil but are destroyed mearly by the knowledge of it? The answer is as simple as it is profound and the basis of all creation-LOVE. In order for the lamb to love us in according to the biblical definition we must know the the difference between the light and the dark. Love does not rejoice in iniquity but in truth; and the very core of all truth is the awareness of God Almighty himself. THIS IS REALLY NEAT..!! I like the way you put it. I've always figured much of free-will is what we call nowadays a "no-brainer". Like you say about living by the laws, I have free-will to cross the road when there's traffic going by, or I can choose to wait until the road is clear. When we know the truth Who makes us free, I don't believe we can "out-love" Him. By that I mean that I love my grandchildren enough to let them play outside under conditions safe for them to do so. I will not allow them to play in the road--it is off-limits and the first time one of them is caught there by me, their punishment is not being allowed to play outside until I believe they are more determined to obey that rule about staying out of the road. I don't believe God would save me only to have me become a victim of Parental neglect--that don't even sound like Him. Likewise, the more my love for Him grows as I mature in the Holy Spirit, not only do I not want to do things that displease Him, but I also am more drawn to do those things that do please Him. The only thing I know about love and how to love anyone is by experiencing all the ways He loves me. And I also hope THAT makes sense, because Daystar's post did to me.

She married Adam GOOD ONE..!!

Here's some thoughts and questions on lies and the Liar. The father of lies is the best at lieing, yes? Is what he says mostly true? Is there an ounce of truth in him or in what he says, ever? For example, in what he said about the both of them, that they (Hebrew, the serpent's used plural 'you') would not die, and would become like God 'knowing' (see Hebrew meaning) good and evil, was any of it true? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, it would appear that taking words of the Truth of God's Word to make your own version of the "truth" would certainly be an effective way of lying. Telling a "believable" lie is quite common among politicians, for example. I'm first-hand familiar with a cult that promotes the belief among its members, once they have been "hooked" into the organization, that there is in fact a state of "godhood" attainable by man. They also twist words of God's Truth to "support" such nonsense, as well as the idea that their own writings (those of their founder, a self-proclaimed "prophet") are divinely inspired by the hand of God. This is sometimes rightfully called taking Scripture "out-of-context", but that very phrase alone is also often "out-of-context" itself. There is, always has been, for ever will be only ONE God. Nobody will ever be "like" Him in the sense of being "a god". Therefore, when the serpent used the plural term in Gen. 3:5, saying "...ye shall be as gods...", this was a misleading statement designed to bring harm to the hearer; a lie. Now there are other places in Scripture where the word "gods" is used, but unlike the demonic doctrine of the cult I make reference to, this does not mean there are any such thing as other "gods" in the same sense that God Almighty is the one and only God of the universe. In like manner, while we do now indeed have knowledge of good and evil, I have to think it's not in our best interests in many cases to have such knowledge as human-beings and not as God Himself. The "lust" of being "wise" that the serpent apparently magnified in this story must have been promoted--deceptively--as something to be desired, and supported by the equally false notion that we, as human-beings, could be all that God is. So is there an ounce of truth in the father of lies..?? For these reasons, I have to say no. Even if not for these reasons, just the fact that Jesus refers to satan as the father of lies is Truth I know I can trust. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eve lied only after she had partaken of the forbidden fruit. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Are you sure? Where is this 'lie' recorded or testified to by any character in the bible? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Under this criteria, perhaps I am wrong to say she lied. I stand corrected therefore, unless an equal weight can be given to the idea of a lie being to hide the truth of oneself from the Truth that is God and Eve was one flesh with Adam when he/they tried to hide himself /themselves from God's call to him ("...I hid myself." Gen. 3:10). In such a case, I would say that the one flesh Adam/Eve lied. But that's really splitting hairs, something my faith finds unnecessary. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To "eat" of the tree, or to "touch" it, I believe, must have been equally as bad for Adam and Eve. I don't think there's a significant difference in receiving the same commandment in two different ways of saying it or in two parts. JMO. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (The command that the Eve testified to which is more than the one given to alone Adam shows living by faith began in Genesis...) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Interesting thought. Thanx for sharing that.

Very interesting observations from all of you--THANK YOU ALL. Perhaps, not being used to "splitting hairs" in some things, I was negligent to mention the "mistake" I referred to in her choice of partaking of the fruit of the forbidden tree was in her OVER-evaluation of it before partaking. That is, it was good for food and pleasing to the sight, which God had made to grow out of the ground in such a manner. That was the "okay" part of her evaluation. The place where she overdid it was considering it as a tree which bore fruit "to make one wise". I consider Eve to be part of Adam, as she was bone-of-his-bone and flesh-of-his-flesh; the most honorable extension of Adam's being, in a sense. At least, this is the ideal I believe any married couple would like to have in their lives and strives for. The serpent told the first lie. Eve lied only after she had partaken of the forbidden fruit. I'm also blessed by what "firehill" points out here about how her eyes must have been deceived, and I think it speaks volumes as to how a man is in many ways incomplete without the woman, as the woman is without the man, unless God walks every single step of their single life with them. I've experienced this in my own life, at least, and I doubt I'm the only one. I think, however, there is a wisdom of this world that corresponds well to the false "wisdom" Eve must have seen at the tree. The father of lies is still at work in the world, and the best lies are "mostly" true. It's the origin of many religious cults to put their own peculiar "twist" to the Word of God. And many still go in at the gates of hell (Matt. 16:18) instead of through the Door (John 10:9). You have me at a disadvantage, though, with the use of the word "TOKOGAE"--my Strong's Concordance is not available to me right now (I have an overpopulated house at present which has necessitated stacking much of my library in inconvenient places). To "eat" of the tree, or to "touch" it, I believe, must have been equally as bad for Adam and Eve. I don't think there's a significant difference in receiving the same commandment in two different ways of saying it or in two parts. JMO.

Did you know that Eve made only ONE mistake in taking the forbidden fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil..?? Compare these two verses from Genesis: "And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is PLEASANT TO THE SIGHT, and GOOD FOR FOOD;...." (Gen. 2:9) "And when the woman saw that the tree was GOOD FOR FOOD, and that it was PLEASANT TO THE EYES, and a tree to be desired to make one WISE, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. (Gen. 3:6) There is a kind of "wisdom" that apparently is bad for man. Paul called it "the wisdom of this world" (I Cor. 3:19) Contrast this verse with James 3:17, which describes "the wisdom that is from above". There are many things in the world today that would purport to make men wise. But the Word of God STILL says what it always has about true wisdom. See Job 28:28; Prov. 9:10; Dan. 2:21. The ONLY real wisdom is in God's Book. Ain't another book like it--never has been, never will be. Be blessed.