KeilanS Posted March 11, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 158 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,763 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/14/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/23/1990 Share Posted March 11, 2009 Hey everyone, I'm not online much anymore, but I figured I'd come say hello. I've been at university for the past 6 months or so, and boy has it been busy and interesting. I have also seen a bunch of interesting religious ideas, that coming from a conservative background seem a little weird. I wanted to know what you all thought of them. So here goes: 1. Christians and the environment - This is the thing I've heard that makes the most sense to me. Basically what I have come to agree with is that we are to be stewards of the earth, and what that basically means to me is don't screw it up. Like whether or not you buy global warming, I still think that Christians should be supportive of ways to help clean up the planet, and stop us from making it any worse. 2. Rapture? What Rapture? - This is interesting to me, as I've done just about zero study in this area. THe idea I hear a lot is basically that the rapture is crummy theology, and that the endtimes are quite possibly more metaphor than anything. Furthermore, I hear a great deal about the new earth being the final destination of humans, and that the ultimate end of Christianity is not being swept up to heaven, but rather it is being resurrected on the new earth. 3. Hell - The majority of people I talk to do not belief hell is actually a place of fire and burning and what-not. Rather it is a place where people will be permanently seperated from God. Almost a C.S. Lewis - The Great Divorce concept of the afterlife. And then some even seem to believe that Hell is really just temporary, and nobody ends up there forever. This one I have the most problems with, simply because it sounds more like wishful thinking than scripture. So, I always used to enjoy the opinions I got here. What do you all think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishcowboy Posted March 11, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 127 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,248 Content Per Day: 0.88 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/23/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted March 11, 2009 do not forget what the Word of God says...... there is a lot of deceptive talk out there these days...... most people do not believe that there is a literal hell, but what does the Word of God say? there are many people that believe that heaven and hell are here and now and only what we make of this life and after this there is nothing..... what does the Bible say?????? I know you know what it says..... stand on it...... it seems that a lot of people at universities (teachers/prof.) are "non-belivers" my wife even had to take a poor grade because of a paper she wrote, the content was Biblical based, and it was solid, but because it was non-secular, she suffered the grade. ( this is ilegal, unless the subject is specified for the assignment) many in the churchs even do not believe that the Bible is literal in the sense of heaven and hell..... the rapture? well, there are some that believe one way, and others that believe another.... the book was sealed, not all knowledge is known about the end times, Daniel was given information that I am sure was not written down, and even then God told him that the book would be sealed (the knowledge of some of it)...... John was told NOT TO WRITE some of the information down that he was given..... being the information was to be withheld until late, I believe the teachings, the information, the knowledge of it was hidden until God saw fit to reveal it (sealed until the end time)...... look at the world today, it is almost like opening the Bible and reading the prophecies...... it is believed that we have only began to see the economy tumble, in about two years, we will see it bottom out....... it has also been said, that about every 60 years the economy goes into a depression, but if we prolong it, that only makes the depression go even deeper...... it has been prolonged for about 15 years (my guess) and now, well, we are dropping like a lead balloon...... I remember the day, when a YOUTH pass book savings account drew 4% interest...... and CD's brought 15% and more....... my dad had a mortgage of about 3% on our house, and his savings that he had was drawing about 6%, it was cheaper to pay minimums on the mortgage then to pay it off..... if he paid it off, he could not use the interest as a deduction, which actually made the mortgage about 1% (if I remember correctly)..... now a person is lucky to be able to get 1/2 of 1% on a pass book savings, child or adult....... yet, the mortgage rates are in the double digits...... loan rates are really good if you can get a 6 or 7%...... they say if you have perfect credit, you can get a 4% loan, but I have not known anyone to be able to get a fixed rate loan at that rate...... the mortgage we have was at 6% variable..... yea, we are sitting at 10% at this time.... .top end is 13, and low end is 4. something, but it has gone up every 6 months since we got it, and has yet to come down lower then 10....... the bail out money shuld go to the tax payer, not the businesses...... if the businesses get any of that money, it needs to be set as a LOAN, and the interest needs to be given directly back to the tax payer...... bein the money came from the tax payer..... Kansas is having to borrow mondy from one place in order to even pay back the Income tax returns........ hmmmm money that is suppose to be in account till the income tax thing is done in April, is empty????? oooops, who done that? emptied it i mean? mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted March 11, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted March 11, 2009 Hey everyone, I'm not online much anymore, but I figured I'd come say hello. I've been at university for the past 6 months or so, and boy has it been busy and interesting. I have also seen a bunch of interesting religious ideas, that coming from a conservative background seem a little weird. I wanted to know what you all thought of them. So here goes: 1. Christians and the environment - This is the thing I've heard that makes the most sense to me. Basically what I have come to agree with is that we are to be stewards of the earth, and what that basically means to me is don't screw it up. Like whether or not you buy global warming, I still think that Christians should be supportive of ways to help clean up the planet, and stop us from making it any worse. I agree. "The World" goes overboard with this - Earth worship, putting "the planet" above the people, and all those things. I'm not against utilizing earth's resources. However, we should treat the land, the water, the wildlife, the plants as loving caretakers and not abusers. A lot of Christians use "the world is not my home" as an excuse for not taking care of even their local ecology, but have any of us applied this principle to the house, condo, or apartment we live in? So that's how I put it back - treat your local ecology and whatever ecology you are impacting the way you would treat your own home (put garbage in the trashcan, recycle resources, make it look pretty, etc.) 2. Rapture? What Rapture? - This is interesting to me, as I've done just about zero study in this area. THe idea I hear a lot is basically that the rapture is crummy theology, and that the endtimes are quite possibly more metaphor than anything. Furthermore, I hear a great deal about the new earth being the final destination of humans, and that the ultimate end of Christianity is not being swept up to heaven, but rather it is being resurrected on the new earth. Oy! Liberal theology. (I had my share of that from my professors at the Christian college I went to.) I personally lean against the Pre-Trib rapture. But the end times being a metaphor? No. I don't believe we are meant to figure out the scientific details behind how everything will play out, but - well, let me put it this way. If you take all the prophecies given in the Old Testament about the Messiah, you will find that some have been fulfilled and some have yet to happen. If you take the ones that have happened and compare the prophecies with the actual events, you will see not only how well they fit, but also how mind-boggling the fulfillment came to be compared to what would have been expected. After studying the fulfilled prophecies, then look at the ones yet to be from this perspective. If we can trust the fulfillment of the past prophecies and how they played out, can we likewise trust the yet unfulfilled prophecies to play out in ways beyond our expectations yet fit perfectly? So I wouldn't worry about the nature of the new Earth and what happens to believers between Christ's return and the end of the millennium. Doing so is reading the text in a way it wasn't meant to be read. However, relegating prophecy to metaphor just because it is not scientific lingo is likewise not reading the text as it was meant to be read. The visions of Daniel that we have seen fulfilled weren't mere metaphor; why should the parts concerning what has yet to be fulfilled be metaphor? Does that make sense? 3. Hell - The majority of people I talk to do not belief hell is actually a place of fire and burning and what-not. Rather it is a place where people will be permanently seperated from God. Almost a C.S. Lewis - The Great Divorce concept of the afterlife. And then some even seem to believe that Hell is really just temporary, and nobody ends up there forever. This one I have the most problems with, simply because it sounds more like wishful thinking than scripture. Your last sentence pretty much sums it. Granted, there is (I believe) valid debate over what "Hell" meant in Biblical times versus how we see it now, and over whether the dead apart from Christ go to "Hades" while "Hell" is actually the Lake of Fire mentioned in Revelation. But apart from that, there's really only one thing we should worry ourselves over concerning Hell - you don't want to go there. It really doesn't matter what one believes about the nature of Hell so long as it doesn't become an interference to doing those things which Jesus commanded us concerning preaching the Gospel and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Hey everyone, Welcome Back Dear Brother Welcome Back "Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!" Psalms 133:1 >>>>>()<<<<< I'm not on line much anymore, but I figured I'd come say hello. I've been at university for the past 6 months or so, and boy has it been busy and interesting. I have also seen a bunch of interesting religious ideas, that coming from a conservative background seem a little weird. I wanted to know what you all thought of them. So here goes:........So, I always used to enjoy the opinions I got here. What do you all think? Dear Brother Welcome To Adulthood You Have Entered The Refiner's Furnace "And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD." Joshua 24:15 And Are Tempted To Unwisely Judge And Change God's Holy Words By The Thoughts Of Proud Sinners "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:8-9 And It Started With The Mother Of Us All "Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die." Genesis 3:1-3 And Continues Today "While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning." 2 Peter 2:19-20 Until God Judges "Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil." Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 >>>>>()<<<<< Dear Keilan Read Ecclesiastes Over Four Or Five Times In One Sitting You Will Start To See The Summation Of All Of Man's Proud Works And, As You Learn Of This Or That "New" Grand Scheme To Change Men Or World, You Will Know The Truth Because You Have Learned The Truth At The Foot Of One Who Really Did Do It All And Who Had Everything He Desired And Found It Was Empty Vanity Vanity >>>>>(1)<<<<< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 1. Christians and the environment - This is the thing I've heard that makes the most sense to me. Basically what I have come to agree with is that we are to be stewards of the earth, and what that basically means to me is don't screw it up. Like whether or not you buy global warming, I still think that Christians should be supportive of ways to help clean up the planet, and stop us from making it any worse. Going Going.... "But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men." 2 Peter 3:7 Earth Ain't Our Home "For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God." Hebrews 11:10 And Only God Is The Builder Of The New Jerusalem "In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you." John 14:2 And The LORD Jesus Is The Rock Our Home Is Build Upon And We Are But The Little Stones "Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit." Ephesians 2:19-22 >>>>>()<<<<< Dear Keilan All Men Will Serve One Kingdom Or The Other "He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad." Matthew 12:30 Keep Jesus As LORD >>>>>(2)<<<<< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 2. Rapture? What Rapture? - This is interesting to me, as I've done just about zero study in this area. The idea I hear a lot is basically that the rapture is crummy theology, and that the end-times are quite possibly more metaphor than anything. Furthermore, I hear a great deal about the new earth being the final destination of humans, and that the ultimate end of Christianity is not being swept up to heaven, but rather it is being resurrected on the new earth. Raptured "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 Just To Ride Behind "And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee." Zechariah 14:5 The Returning LORD Jesus "And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him." Jude 1:14-15 As He Saves His Beloved Israel "And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean." Revelation 19:13-14 And Once Again Restores Paradise Lost "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea." Isaiah 11:6-9 >>>>>()<<<<< Keilan The Truth Is Only Jesus Can Restore The Earth But Only For A Thousand Years "And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them." Romans 20:11 His Kingdom Is Our Joy "Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also." Matthew 6:19-21 And Our Quest "But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matthew 6:33 >>>>>(3)<<<<< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 3. Hell - The majority of people I talk to do not belief hell is actually a place of fire and burning and what-not. Rather it is a place where people will be permanently separated from God. Almost a C.S. Lewis - The Great Divorce concept of the afterlife. And then some even seem to believe that Hell is really just temporary, and nobody ends up there forever. This one I have the most problems with, simply because it sounds more like wishful thinking than scripture. What Is Man To Judge His God "And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched." Mark 9:47-48 Who Sent His Son To Die "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 5:8 To Save The Sinner "The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." John 3:35-36 Who Believes "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:17-18 >>>>>()<<<<< Dear Keilan The Bible Is God's Gift To Us It Is Our Only Source Of True Knowledge Of Origins, Values And Destinies It Tells Us Of Our Wicked Sinful Hearts The Price Paid By The LORD Jesus The Power Of His Holy Blood And The Grace Of God "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." 2 Timothy 3:16-17 With It's Truth It Will Keep Your Heart "Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee." Psalms 119:11 Without It You Are Wolf Chow "But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived." 2 Timothy 3:13 With It You Are God's "But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; "And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus." 2 Timothy 3:14-15 Beloved Of The KING Do Not Give Up Your Birth Right >>>>>(4)<<<<< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeilanS Posted March 12, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 158 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,763 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/14/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/23/1990 Author Share Posted March 12, 2009 Thank you, everyone. Joe, one of the verses you posted confused me somewhat. "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea." Isaiah 11:6-9 This seems to me to be describing the earth, yet an unfallen earth. I also wonder why God would create such a beautiful earth and say that it is good, when His plan was simply to let us mess around on it for a few thousand years and then torch it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 ..... Joe, one of the verses you posted confused me somewhat. "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea." Isaiah 11:6-9 This seems to me to be describing the earth, yet an unfallen earth. It Is The Earthly Rule Of The LORD Jesus "And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins. The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious. And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. Isaiah 11:1--12 >>>>>()<<<<< I also wonder why God would create such a beautiful earth and say that it is good, when His plan was simply to let us mess around on it for a few thousand years and then torch it. Because God Is Love "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 5:8 And God Is Just "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23 And The Fallen Cosmos "And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;" Genesis 3:17 Will Flee Before The Unveiled Glory Of God "And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them." Revelation 20:11 And God Will Create A New Pure Earth And Heaven And The Holy City HE Build Will Descend To Be God's Abode Forever "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God." Revelation 21:1-3 And I Am Convinced That Nothing In This Present Dark And Sin Tainted Universe "But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." 1 Corinthians 2:9 Will Compare To The Beauty And The Glory Of God "One thing have I desired of the LORD, that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the LORD, and to inquire in his temple." Psalms 27:4 Believers Will See As They Look Upon Jesus "And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever" Revelation 22:3-5 >>>>>()<<<<< There Are Those Who's Hearts Are Set On Old Earth "Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen." 1 John 5:21 And Then There Are Those Who Hearts Are Set On The Master Artist "And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father." Galatians 4:6 >>>>>()<<<<< Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING The LORD bless thee, and keep thee: The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee: The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace. And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27 Love, Your Brother Joe "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call." Joel 2:32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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