JCISGD Posted August 24, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 64 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,345 Content Per Day: 0.24 Reputation: 30 Days Won: 1 Joined: 03/05/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/10/1961 Author Share Posted August 24, 2009 KC i enjoy conversing with you also as i know you sincerely hold your beliefs and atleast open to discussion. However your statement that their is no biblical support is not true my friend, i have already put forth Pauls claims which are only refuted by resorting to Rom 7 where he talks about his pre christian state, claiming this as his present experience ignores the conclusion in chpt 7:25 and chpt 8 1-14. There is a site you can find by goolgling ( bible proofs of a second work of grace), that should be enough for you i think. Unfortunatley i am hopeless at linking sites despite many helps from others here, but i think you will find it easily enough. I totally agree that revival only takes a few sincere ferevent praying Christians, but you will also see in these beginings it was not long before they began confessing and repenting of sin previously swept under the carpet, and soon this broke out into others confessing and repenting. In one such revival among some students, the faculty heads thought that the confessing of all sins especially sexual sin was inappropriate and spoke against this, but the Holy Spirit was grieved and the fledgling revival was halted. I must correct you also my brother, i have not said entire sanctification comes from saying a prayer, as God has placed conditions for recieving it and more importantly, it is something God bestows rather than we obtain by any method. I do agree with you that it is a partnership as we do play our part, but Jesus has already stated we "cannot change a single hair" on our head, how much more do we need to rely on God to forever change our heart? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBert Posted August 31, 2009 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 69 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/17/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted August 31, 2009 While browsing the related threads post`s i came accross two attempts to answer what and how sanctification exists. One by George which i read 40 % of the posts esp begining and end and one by givenname that got sidetracked i think. And neither gave what i believe was a satisfactory explanation. I dont say this in pride, and i havnt come into the experience i am about to describe. But here is what i now understand and if any man beat me to it, i can only rejoice. Circumcision is symbolic of Christ` work in our hearts. Now sanctification may in part be a process i dont know, but the flesh was cut off in one swipe. The fact that two words justification and sanctification is enough to prove sanctification does not occur at salvation, although positionally this may be so. Every thing was finished on the cross positionally. To be clear, justification is a gift and work of God recieved by faith. But what i hope to show here is that sanctification is also a gift and a work of God, yet a second work and not to do with salvation but purification. When we get saved we experience a rush or measure of Gods Spirit. This greatly subdues sin in our life and it is marvelous how that first year is so much like a honeymoon. But if your anything like me, gradually some sins that you thought were gone, began to rise up. Through prayer, fellowship and the word we find a measure of sucess in subduing and even overcoming some sins, depending on the degree of obedience to these disciplines. This is what disturbs many, that it seems impossible to rid all sin, and yet we know instinctively that surely theres more to it than this for a child of God. So we either try harder or we begin to hide behind fig leaves. Both methods will not work, and God tries to call us out of them. In my own case i became very discouraged and began to think the gospel to be the "bad news". I wanted to be victorious and see Gods power set people free, but my own life seem to sink into the quicksand of sin. The more i struggled the more i sank. It was at a very low point that i cried out to the Lord, and He showed me that although i was saved i needed to hold still while he performed heart surgery on me. We all need and can get a new heart subsequent to salvation. The old heart/man is wicked beyond repair and putting a patch on it will not do. How? only God knows, when? when we believe Him and ask Him to do it, leaving it in His hands, in His time and His way. This is what it means to be Holy as God is Holy. What He commands, He also gives grace to do but in this case He is the one that does it. This is sanctification proper. It is Christ living in us with a new heart that He is well pleased to dwell with. So it is no longer i that lives but Christ in me the hope of glory. This is not a theological theory or a positional placing that Paul enthusiastically proclaims, its a reality for him and can be for us too. Well thats my take on it, i have much more i could say, but will leave it for readers to decide if it reasonates. I do not intend to debate this so take it or leave it. I may post more later depending on the response, but not in direct reply necessarily. I find this to be a strong take and perhaps answers at least some of the apparent fuzziness on the other (Westminster) thread. God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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