Are You Lost?

[nChrist]

Intuition, study, research and learning all fall under the banner of experience in some sense, I use the word to encompass these things.

Regardless, "Experience DOESN'T encompass those things. People regularly draw distinction between academic learning and experiential knowledge. No one else tries to lump them together. You are trying to do so in order to escape the obvious truth that beliefs are chosen and are often arrived at by study and research, and not necessarily by experience.

You can choose not to act on your beliefs or to act contrary to them, but you can't choose your beliefs.

I believe that addiction to cocaine and methamphetamines is harmful to my body. I did not have to "experience" that at all. I chose to believe the information and research that has been made available that shows such to be true.

There are tons of things we believe because we are taught, or because of what we have read or researched and don't necessarily need to "experience." We can choose to believe lots lof things.

I'm not trying to escape anything, I'm not even disagreeing with you in regard to what our beliefs are based on. I just used the word experience in a manner you disagree with.

What I disagree with is the idea that beliefs are chosen by a conscious process. As demonstration I ask you the same question that Believer1997 hasn't answered: Can you consciously choose to believe that putting your hand on a hot stove is beneficial and if you can, how long do you think that belief would last?

You are simply trying to intellectualize rejecting Christ, and it doesn't fly. In fact, it doesn't even sound intellectual. In other words, you're playing semantics and word games with the most important decision of your life. This life is uncertain, and you might not have tomorrow or even the next hour to make this decision. If you physically die before making this decision, Eternity for you is sealed in the fires of hell, so this is nothing to play games with. I must add that the games are really sad. If you want to investigate, do so seriously and stop playing the games. You are here on a Christian forum, and this is a good start in the investigation. Regardless of the method of investigation, faith comes from Hearing, and Hearing by the Word of God. So, read and listen, but your heart is closed as long as you're just playing games.

As a starter, you should already know that Jesus Christ did live and walk on this earth. World time is set by his life and death, so this should be a given. Numerous books other than the Holy Bible record the same events that are written in the Holy Bible. The Holy Bible is most definitely not fiction, and it isn't a novel. It's a creative Masterpiece like no other before or since. The Holy Bible proves itself so many times that it must be Supernatural, and it is. It's God's Word, and nothing can destroy it. Many have tried, but God said that His Word would be preserved forever, and It Is. God also promised that His Word would never return void - that His Word will always achieve His Will and purpose. You've probably tried numerous times, but you can't dismiss God's Word. You even play word games with yourself - in your own mind. God's Word makes too much sense because it's the Absolute Truth. Dismiss the games, not God's Word, and do a serious investigation. You won't be happy until you do. Just remember that you might not have very much time. Any of us could physically die at any moment. Christians have peace with God, and we know where we will be spending Eternity. The nagging doubt is gone because Jesus Christ does live, and He's just as real as you are.

This evil world is on a collision course with a showdown with God, and God will win. God will prove that He is real beyond any doubt, but it will be too late for those who have rejected Him. The earth is about to be plunged into the most horrible 7 years in the history of mankind. God foretold the Tribulation Period, and the signs indicate that it could start at any time. If you want to know what the future holds for the earth, God's Word tells us all about it. Everything will happen exactly as He said it would. Most of the major players in the end days of this Age of Grace are ancient and can still be easily identified. No combination of powers will be able to stop what is about to happen because God never breaks a promise. God made promises to Israel, to Christians, and to the lost - and they will all be kept perfectly. The time is growing short.

nChrist

[nChrist]

Oe thing I don't understand is when you ask someone who hasn't been saved if they are going to Heaven, they always use the good/bad behaviour criteria as a basis for their answer.

I don't understand why people want to go to Heaven in the first place.

There is much more than just this short life. Our Creator designed us for Eternity, and we will spend Eternity in either Heaven or hell. God doesn't want any person to spend Eternity in hell, so He sent His Son to die on the Cross in payment for our sins and told us how to be rescued from from the penalties that we deserve for our disobedience and sin.

How does murdering an innocent man pay for for the sins of another? If Bob killed Joe, would Bob be rescued from the the penalty for that crime if we killed Tom in his place? Would that be just?

Jesus Christ wasn't just a man. He was Very God made manifest in the flesh. He also arose from the dead on the third day and had a host of witnesses. No other sacrifice would do. Only Jesus Christ was perfect, Holy, and without sin. This is a description of God's Perfect Love in dying for sinners who disobeyed and rejected Him. There is no greater Love. No man can earn or deserve the Gift God gave us. Yes, the Just died for the unjust - the Holy died for the unholy - the Sinless died for those who are wallowing in the darkness of sin and death. We are talking about the ways of our Creator - Almighty God. What man thinks he knows is nothing in comparison to what our Creator Does Know. We are just simple human beings, so it's hard for us to understand God's Ways. His Ways are definitely not man's ways, and His Perfection, Majesty, Holiness, and Might are beyond human comprehension. Rightfully so - He Created the Universe and set nature in place. The Laws of Nature are His, and all of the wonders that man sees are His Work.

God The Father required a Perfect Sacrifice for man to be able to make Peace with Him. Jesus Christ was and is the Only Perfect Sacrifice. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are Absolute Truth - yet they are One Holy and Eternal Godhead. Christians walk with Jesus Christ, talk with God the Father, and have the Holy Spirit living in their hearts - so Christians don't have any doubts. Countless millions have testified of this Absolute Truth. Yes, Almighty God is the Absolute Truth.

nChrist

[nChrist]

GOOD NEWS!

1: Romans 3:10 NLT As the Scriptures say, "No one is good- not even one.

2: Romans 3:23 NLT For all have sinned; all fall short of God's glorious standard.

3: Romans 5:12 NLT When Adam sinned, sin entered the entire human race. Adam's sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned.

4: Romans 6:23 NLT For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord.

5: Romans 1:18 NLT But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who push the truth away from themselves.

6: Romans 3:19-20 NLT Obviously, the law applies to those to whom it was given, for its purpose is to keep people from having excuses and to bring the entire world into judgment before God. 20 For no one can ever be made right in God's sight by doing what his law commands. For the more we know God's law, the clearer it becomes that we aren't obeying it.

7: Romans 3:27 NLT Can we boast, then, that we have done anything to be accepted by God? No, because our acquittal is not based on our good deeds. It is based on our faith.

8: Romans 5:8-9 NLT But God showed his great love for us by sending Christ to die for us while we were still sinners. 9 And since we have been made right in God's sight by the blood of Christ, he will certainly save us from God's judgment.

9: Romans 2:3-4 NLT Do you think that God will judge and condemn others for doing them and not judge you when you do them, too? 4 Don't you realize how kind, tolerant, and patient God is with you? Or don't you care? Can't you see how kind he has been in giving you time to turn from your sin?

10: Romans 3:19-22 NLT Obviously, the law applies to those to whom it was given, for its purpose is to keep people from having excuses and to bring the entire world into judgment before God. 20 For no one can ever be made right in God's sight by doing what his law commands. For the more we know God's law, the clearer it becomes that we aren't obeying it. 21 But now God has shown us a different way of being right in his sight-not by obeying the law but by the way promised in the Scriptures long ago. 22 We are made right in God's sight when we trust in Jesus Christ to take away our sins. And we all can be saved in this same way, no matter who we are or what we have done.

11: Romans 3:24-28 NLT Yet now God in his gracious kindness declares us not guilty. He has done this through Christ Jesus, who has freed us by taking away our sins. 25 For God sent Jesus to take the punishment for our sins and to satisfy God's anger against us. We are made right with God when we believe that Jesus shed his blood, sacrificing his life for us. God was being entirely fair and just when he did not punish those who sinned in former times. 26 And he is entirely fair and just in this present time when he declares sinners to be right in his sight because they believe in Jesus. 27 Can we boast, then, that we have done anything to be accepted by God? No, because our acquittal is not based on our good deeds. It is based on our faith. 28 So we are made right with God through faith and not by obeying the law.

12: Romans 10:8-9 NLT Salvation that comes from trusting Christ-which is the message we preach-is already within easy reach. In fact, the Scriptures say, "The message is close at hand; it is on your lips and in your heart." 9 For if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

13: Romans 4:14-25 NLT So if you claim that God's promise is for those who obey God's law and think they are "good enough" in God's sight, then you are saying that faith is useless. And in that case, the promise is also meaningless. 15 But the law brings punishment on those who try to obey it. (The only way to avoid breaking the law is to have no law to break!) 16 So that's why faith is the key! God's promise is given to us as a free gift. And we are certain to receive it, whether or not we follow Jewish customs, if we have faith like Abraham's. For Abraham is the father of all who believe. 17 That is what the Scriptures mean when God told him, "I have made you the father of many nations." This happened because Abraham believed in the God who brings the dead back to life and who brings into existence what didn't exist before. 18 When God promised Abraham that he would become the father of many nations, Abraham believed him. God had also said, "Your descendants will be as numerous as the stars," even though such a promise seemed utterly impossible! 19 And Abraham's faith did not weaken, even though he knew that he was too old to be a father at the age of one hundred and that Sarah, his wife, had never been able to have children. 20 Abraham never wavered in believing God's promise. In fact, his faith grew stronger, and in this he brought glory to God. 21 He was absolutely convinced that God was able to do anything he promised. 22 And because of Abraham's faith, God declared him to be righteous. 23 Now this wonderful truth-that God declared him to be righteous-wasn't just for Abraham's benefit. 24 It was for us, too, assuring us that God will also declare us to be righteous if we believe in God, who brought Jesus our Lord back from the dead. 25 He was handed over to die because of our sins, and he was raised from the dead to make us right with God.

14: Romans 10:8-13 NLT Salvation that comes from trusting Christ-which is the message we preach-is already within easy reach. In fact, the Scriptures say, "The message is close at hand; it is on your lips and in your heart." 9 For if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved. 11 As the Scriptures tell us, "Anyone who believes in him will not be disappointed." 12 Jew and Gentile are the same in this respect. They all have the same Lord, who generously gives his riches to all who ask for them. 13 For "Anyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

Thanks be unto GOD for HIS unspeakable GIFT!, JESUS CHRIST, our Lord and Saviour forever!

[rstrats]

nChrist,

re:

[Guest shiloh357]

Yet that is what many athesits and other unbelievers do. They decided in advance, what type of evidence must exist in order for them to be convinced.

Is that wrong?

Yes, it is. I previously used the example of a court of law. What if the prosecutor was hamstrung by the jury in the same way? What if the jury said, "you must present xyz as evidence. We will only consider xyz as valid evidence."

What if the crime scene did not not contain the evidence that the jury demanded? A fair trial would be possible.

As I stated earlier, most atheists want to predetermine what the evidence must be so that they can insulate themselves against the evidence that does exist.

In that way, they can claim that no REAL evidence of God exists.

So what evidence would you consider against the existence of God?

Well since I have been duly lectured by the WB atheists that a negative cannot be proven, I don't see that evidence against the exitence of God can be offered.

I will say this though. It is what I have all along. The task that you have before you is to discredit the eyewitnesses of God of the Bible, in both the Old and New Testaments. If you want to offer something substantive and intelligent, then it falls to you to show that the accounts of the Bible cannot be trusted and that "eyewitnesses" are clearly not credible and their testimony cannot be beleived based on a demonstratable history of a lack of credibility and falsehood.

If you cannot show WHY the Bible cannot be believed as to its testimony God's existence, then you have no reason to not believe it, much less tell others why it canot be believed.

You don't have to prove God's nonexistence. Just produce genuine evidence that demonstrates why the Bible cannot be trusted.

[Guest]

.... In order for a person to make this decision - the decision to follow the requirements that the Bible sets forth - wouldn't a person first have to believe that a supreme being exists? And since a person can't consciously CHOOSE to believe things, what is the person suppose to do? ....

I Will Not Believe! I Will Not Believe!

I Won't! I Won't!

No! No!

But God

And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,

And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.

And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:

And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

Acts 9:1-5

As You Search For Truth In The Book Of John Or In Ecclesiastes Or Wherever You Are Drawn To Read From The Bible

You Can Consciously CHOOSE To Determent To Act On What God Shows You

No Matter What The Consequences May Be To Your Relationships

With Friends Or Family Or With Your Prior Joys In Sinning

Or If You Live Or Die Because You Know

The Truth And His Name

Is Jesus

Some Folk Will Do This

But Most Reject The LORD Jesus And Just Go On Sinning

Blaming Their Lusts And Hatred On The Very One Who Loved Them To The Uttermost

>>>>>()<<<<<

So Dear One

You Can

Seek

Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:

Isaiah 55:6

And Taste

O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.

Psalms 34:8

And Believe

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:16

Or Not

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

Hebrews 3:12

It Is Really Really Important To Be Wise, Guy

Love, Joe

[Guest shiloh357]

So then, what evidence would you consider as being "genuine evidence" that the Bible is unreliable?

Again, I cannot set that parameter. Evidence has to be examined on its own merit before being discarded. As I stated, it is an unfair debate tactic to demand evidence, but then limit the kind evidence you will accept. It doesn't work in a court of law, and it won't work here.

The fantastic claims in the Bible alone are enough for me to question its reliability. Resurrections, walking on water, talking animals, etc. conflict with my understanding of reality.

That is not evidence, though. Since we are talking about a God who created the universe, and can suspend natural law anytime he chooses such supernatural occurrences would NOT be unreasonable.

It doesn't matter how honest someone has proven to be in the past, if that person tells me they can levitate I would find it impossible to believe them because it conflicts with my understanding of reality. The onus isn't on me to disprove that levitation is impossible, the burden rests with the claimant to provide evidence of his claim if he wants me to believe it. Until he does so, I'll continue in my current belief that people can't levitate.

You are comparing dissimilar things. I am talking about eyewitness testimony. Obviously, if a person claims to be able to float in mid-air, we would want to see a demonsration of that feat. But that is not really what we are dealing with.

We are talking about eyewitness testimony. The onus is not on you to disprove the eyewitness account. You can't possibly do that. There is no way you can disprove that Jesus walked on water. I am not asking you to do that. What I am saying is that it falls to you to show that eyewitness' testimony cannot be trusted due to their obvious lack of credibility. You need to show that since the people Bible (prophets, apostles, et al.) who are eyewitnesses of God's power, demonstrate a lack of honesty in reporting, they cannot be trusted or believed when they recount their encounters with God, Jesus, etc.

Does John or Matthew, or Mark or Luke give us credibility issues sufficient to bar their record of Jesus' miracles as reliable? What about the testimony of the people who were the recipients of Jesus' miracles? You would have to discredit them as unreliable as well.

Absent that, you have no REAL, substantive reason to disbelieve their testimony.

[rstrats]

FresnoJoe,

re:

[Believer1997]

FresnoJoe,

re:

[rstrats]

Believer1997,

re: