Believer1997 Posted July 31, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 66 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,363 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 119 Days Won: 9 Joined: 11/07/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted July 31, 2009 I happened across one of their people at a local gas station a day or so ago. This guy sounded like a total stoned cultist with a canned answer for everything. These people don't even allow music in their services because there are no examples of music in the New Testament. Is anyone here familiar with the meatier portions of their teachings? do they have any female pastors? usually when there are female pastors they do not respect the bible. A "cult"...i dont know. "Lost"...yes. Wow... "Usually when there are female pastors they do not respect the bible"? I did not know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovedya Posted July 31, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 375 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 11,400 Content Per Day: 1.43 Reputation: 125 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/30/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1971 Share Posted July 31, 2009 I don't know what kind of CoC you've had dealings with Ovedya, but it certainly doesn't sound like the one I grew up and attended for over 40 years. To my understanding there are two separate denoms that use the name. The CoC I was describing I believe began as the Boston Church of Christ, which was dissolved and ended up as the Church of Christ, which has various satellite churches around the U.S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarletprayers Posted July 31, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 135 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,537 Content Per Day: 1.08 Reputation: 157 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/06/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/29/1956 Share Posted July 31, 2009 I don't know what kind of CoC you've had dealings with Ovedya, but it certainly doesn't sound like the one I grew up and attended for over 40 years. To my understanding there are two separate denoms that use the name. The CoC I was describing I believe began as the Boston Church of Christ, which was dissolved and ended up as the Church of Christ, which has various satellite churches around the U.S. I got cha, that group is the one thats been accused of putting a "older member" over new members and finding out secrets which they then hold over the new member to make them toe the line. Don't know if thats true or not, but it is what I've heard said about them. They also stress if you don't go to and get baptized in their church your doomed to hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 I don't know what kind of CoC you've had dealings with Ovedya, but it certainly doesn't sound like the one I grew up and attended for over 40 years. To my understanding there are two separate denoms that use the name. The CoC I was describing I believe began as the Boston Church of Christ, which was dissolved and ended up as the Church of Christ, which has various satellite churches around the U.S. I got cha, that group is the one thats been accused of putting a "older member" over new members and finding out secrets which they then hold over the new member to make them toe the line. Don't know if thats true or not, but it is what I've heard said about them. They also stress if you don't go to and get baptized in their church your doomed to hell. yeah, that one is totally a cult. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnetrueGod Posted August 1, 2009 Group: Junior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 82 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/23/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/16/1959 Share Posted August 1, 2009 (edited) From my interactions with them: 1) They are very controlling over their members. 2) They hold to "one true church" dogma. One is either in the church and saved or out of the church an unsaved. 3) While they do not necessarily believe in baptismal regeneration, they do believe that baptism must be done by the true church, and is the only method of entry into the one true church. Therefore, unless one is baptized by "the true church" (which is the CoC) his baptism was not authentic. 4) God has not commanded in the New Testament that worship of himself be accompanied by musical instrumentation and, in fact, musical instruments are of the devil. Ovedya, This does not sound at all like what my COC friend teaches or what his congregation practices. I know from what my COC friend has said and what I've observed from his pastor and congregation .... 1) They don't seem to be any more controlling than any other Religious group I've studied with. They seemed to genuinely care about encouraging each other to live as Christians. 2) As for the "One Church" doctrine , they do teach that you do need to be part of the body (church), but he doesn't teach that other denominations are "out" of the body. They do teach that all Christians should unify. 3) He has never questioned my baptism, and I have never heard that taught from his congregation...Doesn't sound right..I'm not sure. Don't think this is COC wide. 4) It is true that most COC's do not have instruments. It is also true that some consider it to be sinful. Others simply prefer it because they believe there is no direct example for instruments in the NT, but leave it up to autonomous congregations to decide. I have seen Instrumental COC's, so I know this is not the teaching of all COC's. Again...wide variety of beliefs due to autonomous congregations. BTW, All this sounds like the stereotype COC I was taught as a younger Christian. I have not found them to be this way at all... but it would not surprize me to find that there might be some COC members who teach those things. There are a few COC's that don't even consider most other COC's to be the true church. Edited August 1, 2009 by OnetrueGod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scare Bear Posted November 24, 2009 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 88 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/24/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/27/1983 Share Posted November 24, 2009 I would like to ask a few questions myself if no one minds. I know I'm a few months late from this topic but I hope others will see my response. I would ask that most of these questions be kept in the realm of the New Testament as one who is a Christian follows Christ and not the law of Moses. Where are we commanded to use musical instruments? Do we use instruments to make us feel good or are we doing it because that's what God wants? (One wouldn't want to offer up strange fire now would they?) For those who do not feel baptism is important, Christ Himself was baptized was He not? He had no sin. Aren't we to be Christ-like everyday so wouldn't one think that we are to do as Christ did? Why would there be verses that state one needs to be babtized for the remission of sins? If Christ said I am coming again to bring the faithful home why would He need to reign on earth for a thouasnd years? Why is there a verse that states it is appointed for man once to die and then after that the judgment? And for a bit of clarificattion the term pastor in the churches of Christ does not mean preacher or minister. The term 'pastor' is a title reserved for one who holds an elder position. Ephesians 4:11 gives us a clear distinction between the two: And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, I would go through more of the points in this thread but it was late when I happened upon this and I should retire for the evening. So good night to you all and God bless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 I would ask that most of these questions be kept in the realm of the New Testament as one who is a Christian follows Christ and not the law of Moses. the bible is one book, not 2. The Newer Covenant has no meaning apart from the foundation...which is the Torah. God's instruction on righteousness is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Where are we commanded to use musical instruments? Does someone have to "command" you to worship God? Really? Do we use instruments to make us feel good or are we doing it because that's what God wants? Both. (One wouldn't want to offer up strange fire now would they?) are you saying that David offered strange fire because he played an instrument? For those who do not feel baptism is important, Christ Himself was baptized was He not? He had no sin. Aren't we to be Christ-like everyday so wouldn't one think that we are to do as Christ did? Why would there be verses that state one needs to be babtized for the remission of sins? I don't know of a christian who says baptism is "unimportant". Yet there are churches and denominations who make it a cultic legalism. I'm not saying that CoC does that..but the Boston Movement of the CoC certainly does. If Christ said I am coming again to bring the faithful home where do He say that? You're probably paraphrasing but I'd like to know exactly what you are referencing to asnwer the question why would He need to reign on earth for a thouasnd years? Because He said He would. It's His business so I'll just take Him at His Word. Why is there a verse that states it is appointed for man once to die and then after that the judgment? Because it is appointed for man once to die and then after that the judgment. What does that have to do with anything you're talking about here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishcowboy Posted November 24, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 127 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,248 Content Per Day: 0.87 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/23/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted November 24, 2009 I happened across one of their people at a local gas station a day or so ago. This guy sounded like a total stoned cultist with a canned answer for everything. These people don't even allow music in their services because there are no examples of music in the New Testament. Is anyone here familiar with the meatier portions of their teachings? what are we to worship? some people come only to listen to the music... although it is not a sin to have music, some times I wonder if it is overrated? a great many churchs now have the music so loud you can not hear the words, more like being at a rock concert then church.... those playing the music think loud is good..... the louder a person plays, the better they can play..... my grandson puts his hands over his ears at many places... when we should be just worshipping The Lord, when we should be just Praising The Lord, and then if you do not have the text of the song in front of you, you have no clue as to what is being sung, cause you can not hear the words..... I have heard that some say that because the Bible does not have music in their services, well, they also did not have computers at the pulpit either.... they did not have electric lights, or sound systems, they also all wore robes rather then suite coats, ties, pants..... so forth and so on. we can justify doing just about anything..... but does it make it right? not having musical instruments in a worship service might be a good thing.... I do not believe our brothers and sisters that attend the Church of Christ are a cult, in fact, I am absolutely sure they are not, and they may have a better grasp on some thngs in some areas..... then again.... I do not believe that havin musical instruments in a service can keep a person from true worship either....... David had players and singers 24/7..... David Danced before the Lord, so dancing is not to be condemec either.... a person can find all kinds of neat stuff..... but to build a doctrine out of a single verse in the Bible can be very dangerous...... that would be like saying that people that do not drive a Honda are lost.... (they came together in one accord)... I like music, it keeps me in tune...... I do not like it so loud that I can not hear the words being sung by 1000 people, or even if there are only 10 people, again, the voices should be above the music, not drowned out by the music.... mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 I would ask that most of these questions be kept in the realm of the New Testament as one who is a Christian follows Christ and not the law of Moses.You cannot follow Christ and NOT keep the Law of Moses. The Law originated from God, not from Moses. Where are we commanded to use musical instruments? Do we use instruments to make us feel good or are we doing it because that's what God wants? (One wouldn't want to offer up strange fire now would they?)A more important question is where are musical instruments forbidden in the New Testament??? If God was opposed to the use of them, it seems He would have made a specific prohibition against the use of them. Besides, unless you are over 2000 years old, I don't think you were there and can positively confirm that musical insrutments of some fashion were not used by New Testament Churches anywhere in the world in the first century. For those who do not feel baptism is important, Christ Himself was baptized was He not? He had no sin. Aren't we to be Christ-like everyday so wouldn't one think that we are to do as Christ did? Why would there be verses that state one needs to be babtized for the remission of sins?No one has said baptism is not important. But to claim that baptism is necessary for salvation is based on isolated verses and no solid doctrinal treatment in the Bible. If Christ said I am coming again to bring the faithful home why would He need to reign on earth for a thouasnd years?Jesus never said that. Why is there a verse that states it is appointed for man once to die and then after that the judgment? Because it is true?? And for a bit of clarificattion the term pastor in the churches of Christ does not mean preacher or minister. The term 'pastor' is a title reserved for one who holds an elder position. Ephesians 4:11 gives us a clear distinction between the two: And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, Okay, and your point is...?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishcowboy Posted November 24, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 127 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,248 Content Per Day: 0.87 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/23/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted November 24, 2009 I happened across one of their people at a local gas station a day or so ago. This guy sounded like a total stoned cultist with a canned answer for everything. These people don't even allow music in their services because there are no examples of music in the New Testament. Is anyone here familiar with the meatier portions of their teachings? do they have any female pastors? usually when there are female pastors they do not respect the bible. A "cult"...i dont know. "Lost"...yes. Oh cool, we got lots of cults, Presbyterians, Methodist, Nazarines, Assembly of God, UPC, Full Gospel, and even some Baptist churchs.... that would mean that the only ones that would truely be saved then is the Catholics...... cool beans..... too bad so many will be lost just cause some one believes women can not be a minister.... what about the woman at the well? is she lost? NO! Christ accepted her in, he Gave her live, living water)..... let us say that anyone that does not have church service on Saturday is a cultist, or that does not dance in their underwear before the Lord, or if everyone is not wearing robes, being that is the clothing of the times, we all must wear robes now, no more zuit suits....... oh yeah, women must have their hair to their waist or they are not saved, and men must have hait to their shoulders and a beard or they are not saved....... well, the Bible days that is the way they dressed... so, why worry about judging other fellowships as being a cult when there is no such thing as a perfect church, except the one I am in...... mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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