Hunterpoet Posted July 28, 2009 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 128 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,704 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 25 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/29/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/08/1950 Share Posted July 28, 2009 So, I'm able to understand that the word confess does not hold the same meaning and intent in the two verses cited. Hmm, well every lexicon I've consulted lists genuine praise/thanksgiving and heartfelt confession as the primary meaning of these words. Moreover, I have checked how these words are used in the Bible and have found that virtually every place where these words are used, they make sense only if they carry the aforesaid positive connotations. I encourage you to do the same. genuine praise/thanksgiving and heartfelt confession, if it is as you say, are you suggesting that none will be lost and that even satan himself will be saved upon confessing that Christ is King of King's and Lord of Lord's, if so, then what need is there for the lake of fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heresyhunter Posted July 28, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 170 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/24/2008 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 28, 2009 genuine praise/thanksgiving and heartfelt confession, if it is as you say..... Do not take my word for it. Look into it yourself. If indeed I am correct, would that have any bearing on your view of the lake of fire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asper Posted July 28, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 226 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 38 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/26/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/15/1954 Share Posted July 28, 2009 apser, You really ought to learn more Biblical Greek before making claims such as you have done. Dr. Carl Conrad, who runs a Biblical Greek email list, had this to say about the issue: I think that the point here is that the fulfilment of this clause (or these clauses (hINA KAMYHI, hINA hOMOLOGHSHTAI) lies in the future. How one translates a purpose clause depends fundamentally upon that. We could say, "gave him a name such that every knee WOULD bow, every tongue WOULD confess ...", but in fact the fulfilment is envisioned as something for the ESCATON, isn't it. Furthermore, the aorist subjunctive is rather common with MH for commands (Smyth, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heresyhunter Posted July 28, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 170 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/24/2008 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 28, 2009 asper, I encourage you to look at each post in the "Subjunctive Aorist" thread on the B-Greek list: http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/b-greek...read.html#25244 You will find that they all agree that the subjunctive aorist can, and often does, refer to a future event that will take place. I'm sure you will learn quite a bit from the dialogue there. Occasionally now means rather common? That was written in reference to hopos me. Idea of a command now means for command? Where is the ou? I don't know what you're asking. asper, I think you might benefit from joining the B-Greek mailing list where you can ask your questions to highly qualified experts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asper Posted July 29, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 226 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 38 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/26/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/15/1954 Share Posted July 29, 2009 (edited) asper, I encourage you to look at each post in the "Subjunctive Aorist" thread on the B-Greek list: http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/b-greek...read.html#25244 You will find that they all agree that the subjunctive aorist can, and often does, refer to a future event that will take place. I'm sure you will learn quite a bit from the dialogue there. Occasionally now means rather common? That was written in reference to hopos me. Idea of a command now means for command? Where is the ou? I don't know what you're asking. asper, I think you might benefit from joining the B-Greek mailing list where you can ask your questions to highly qualified experts. hi hh, actually i think i will join that group. it seems like i could have some very interesting discussions. but have you indeed read all of them? it would seem that some would suggest it leaning toward the infinitive. http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/b-greek...ril/025244.html http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/b-greek...ril/025248.html http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/b-greek...ril/025251.html to name a few. other then that i will do some more research. evidently from what i gathered from these posts that the "new" experts changed the meaning. i didn't even get the memo? Edited July 29, 2009 by asper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunterpoet Posted July 29, 2009 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 128 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,704 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 25 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/29/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/08/1950 Share Posted July 29, 2009 genuine praise/thanksgiving and heartfelt confession, if it is as you say..... Do not take my word for it. Look into it yourself. If indeed I am correct, would that have any bearing on your view of the lake of fire? I do not believe you are correct. I also think a person can cook a steak to the point it can't be eaten. If you are not a student of law you should be, you'd make a very good defense attorney. As I said previously, when I read and study scripture I trust the Spirit to lead me. I wonder why you avoided answering my question. You seemed comfortable enough to quote the first portion of my response. I wonder also your intent here. You asked for help, but now it seems you have taken on the role of passive instructor, gently encouraging people to see your point of view. How is this approach helping you win or lose your argument?? You have also put yourself forward as being very knowledgeable in the languages used to translate the bible, so I'm wondering why you even needed to bother yourself with our uniformed opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heresyhunter Posted July 29, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 170 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/24/2008 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 29, 2009 (edited) If you are not a student of law you should be, you'd make a very good defense attorney. Thanks, but why do you say that? I wonder why you avoided answering my question. You seemed comfortable enough to quote the first portion of my response. I was just trying to keep the discussion focused. Let me re-post your question. genuine praise/thanksgiving and heartfelt confession, if it is as you say, are you suggesting that none will be lost and that even satan himself will be saved upon confessing that Christ is King of King's and Lord of Lord's, if so, then what need is there for the lake of fire. My answer: I am suggestng no such thing. I wonder also your intent here. You asked for help, but now it seems you have taken on the role of passive instructor, gently encouraging people to see your point of view. How is this approach helping you win or lose your argument?? You have also put yourself forward as being very knowledgeable in the languages used to translate the bible, so I'm wondering why you even needed to bother yourself with our uniformed opinions? You are getting the wrong impression. I'm not arguing for any doctrine, actually. I am merely sharing what I have learned about the words translated 'confess', and I'm asking the same questions that I ask myself. This is how I learn. It is a good approach to take, in my experience. Are you perhaps unwilling to ask yourself these same question in fear that they will lead you down the wrong path? Edited July 29, 2009 by heresyhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heresyhunter Posted July 31, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 170 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/24/2008 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 31, 2009 EricH, I was enjoying our exchange, and would appreciate anything else you have to contribute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted August 2, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted August 2, 2009 Well of course in the End, everyone will know Jesus is Lord. When Christ returns the unsaved according to scripture will run like rats from the light, they will confess and bow indeed, willingly? Who knows, it does not really matter at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Finch Posted August 2, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,414 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 451 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/13/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/30/1944 Share Posted August 2, 2009 It has been my observation that the people who are most worried about what it takes to be saved are not actually into the Life (in Christ) but are still worshiping at the altar of the world looking for some assurance they are permanently saved Albert Finch www.thekeys2kingdom.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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