Marriage and divorce

[Guest lilorox]

Hello Brothers and Sisters,

Its been a while since I have actually posted anything, I have been content to pop in every once in a while a read the forums. However, I have read a thread recently about the subject of the church promoting adultry on these boards which have since been closed because of bickering.

I do not wish to continue that thread but to give a different perspective on the issue of marriage and divorce in particular. I have been a long time fan of Don Francisico and on his website he addresses this very subject and since his wisdom on the subject far exceeds mine, I would like to quote from Don Francisco' "Rocky Mountain Ministries" that beautifully ilistrate answers to some questions.

Does God Hate Divorce?

Of course, marriages are intended to be lifelong. But in this imperfect world divorce can sometimes be lifesaving. (Even God has been through a divorce. That's right, click on the above link, "Is Divorce A Sin?") The widely used verse in Malachi, where God seems to state that He "hates divorce", is mistranslated. What God hates is literally "the putting out" of a woman.

Putting out is altogether different than divorce in Jewish culture. A man would permanently kick his wife out, denying her the Jewish divorce certificate. This woman would still be legally married, but with no home. Her dowry and children would be retained by the husband. She would have already surrendered her virginity to him. She would be ineligible to remarry, since technically, she was still legally bound to her husband. Further, her culture would label her as an adulteress since she did not have a valid divorce certificate. And this lady couldn't just rent an apartment and get a job teaching kindergarten - there was no place for a put out woman in Jewish culture of that day except prostitution. Since the marriages were most often arranged, this whole horrible chain of events would have been completely out of her control.

The husband, however, was free to marry again and to do this as much as he liked. That is why Moses required a divorce certificate to be given... so that the marriage was legally, fairly, and religiously terminated and the woman would be free to remarry and go on with life.

For more info about this topic, do a search on the word "agunah". That means "chained women". The act of putting a woman out is still happening and today there are 1000s of "chained women" in Israel! A Jewish divorce certificate is so valuable that often after a man puts out a woman, he will legally obtain the certificate and then sell it to the highest bidder. "Agunah" is one of the greatest problems faced by orthodox Judaism today.

All over the Bible we have ignorantly and clumsily translated "put out" as "divorce". This has caused many errant doctrines to be formed and made a terrible mess out of millions of people's lives. The toll in human suffering because of our ignorance is overwhelming. The Bible simply does not say that God hates divorce. It says that God hates the putting away.

In the New Testament, Jesus continues to address this cruel breach of human rights. Nearly all of the verses translated "divorce" in the Gospels actually say "put away". It is a completely different situation which we have no equivalent for. Knowing this makes a world of difference. For instance, many believe that Christian remarriage is adultery. But Jesus did not say that if a man marries a divorced woman, he would be committing adultery. He said that if a man married a "put out" woman, he would be committing adultery. This is because she was technically still married! In Israel, putting a woman out is a devastating, intentional ruination of a woman's life. God still hates it.

We have mangled the meaning of what is going on here and used it to place people under a different type of legalism. The worst result of this mistake is that when a marriage does break down, people will often believe that God rejects them, and they will lose their faith just when they need it the most.

There are myriads of reasons why marriage relationships break down. God hates it when a heavy, inflexible grid of legalism is imposed on people and they are broken and turn away from Him as a result. It is obvious that marriages are intended to be lifelong and that every attempt should be made to reconcile and to recapture the first love that founded the relationship. But in this imperfect world, God's provision of divorce is sometimes vital, and can be lifesaving.

Is Divorce A Sin?

It is impossible for all divorces to be automatically sinful because God has been through divorce. That's right, check it out in Jeremiah 3:8 "Lo I had put her out and given her a certificate of divorce"...He is speaking of Israel.

Whether you consider this a literal divorce or not, if ALL divorces were a sin, you can bet those words would never have escaped Him. There is no place in the Bible where God Himself states, "Lo I committed adultery with her", or "Lo I lied to her", or "Lo I cheated her". That's because those things are sin - all the time.

Both marriage and divorce can be sinful depending on the circumstances. In an absolutely perfect world, the union between a man and a woman would be perfectly initiated by God and there would not be any destructive forces tearing at the bond. Marriages would never break down.

But this isn't a perfect world and some marriages become so emotionally, spiritually, and/or physically destructive that divorce can be life saving. That is why it is dangerous to slap a grid of legalism onto yourself or others.

The Bible does not forbid divorce, but God calls us to examine our hearts and to follow His specific leading. God wants us to live abundantly in His blessings. He will not entrap us, or force us to stay in our own traps to uphold an institution. The institutions of our loving God are never more important than the people within them. If He directs you to restore your marriage, then He has in mind a complete restoration of your relationship so that you can grow together and even exceed the love you had when you first met. Most marriages that fail do so for silly reasons when an attempt to reconcile would bring healing, health, joy, and strength.

God's idea of restoration is not just that you stay in the same house miserable so that things look good on the outside! God's idea of a marriage is an active thing where both people support, build, cherish, and nourish each other in Him. In fact, where exactly does the Bible say that marriage is an institution? Hmmm. If I had a choice between institutional food and a home cooked meal, I think I'd choose option B. I would rather think of a marriage as an ongoing love relationship that is so deep that many ministries and much abundance springs from it.

Galations states that we are no longer under law, but under grace. It is monumentally unhealthy to contend for a marriage on the basis that it is the legalistic and religiously correct thing to do. The greatest reason to contend for a marriage is that it is a love relationship. What we want is not so much to keep a marriage intact to outside appearances, but to genuinely heal the love. Then, we want to guard against that love being attacked and torn down again.

Churches should not be controlling people's decisions about marriage and divorce. Leaders should not be enforcing heavy loads of false doctrine that they have no part in carrying. As a Body, we should support our close friends and help each other make honest decisions. In troubled times, it's a good idea to get feedback from those who know us best and to seek God's leading. Ultimately the decisions are up to the individuals involved because they are the ones who will have to live out what they set up for themselves in the future.

Is Re-Marriage Adultry?

In Jewish culture, remarriage was not considered adultery for a man, in fact many men had multiple wives. Remarriage was not considered adultery for a woman unless she did not have a valid divorce certificate. Jesus said that if a man "put out" a woman, i.e. without a divorce certificate, he would be forcing her into adultery since few people could endure lifelong forced singlehood. Also, there were really no cultural options for a "put out" woman except prostitution. If another man married such a woman then he would be considered adulterous since she was still technically married to her first husband. Jesus was exposing the cruelty of the misuse of their system. (Please read the article, "Does God Really Hate Divorce" for a more complete explanation of "putting away" in Jewish culture.

Jesus was also implying that if a country enacts a law, that law may or may not be in agreement with God. Just because someone followed a written law did not absolve them from sin in God's eyes if the law was unethical or was used in an unethical manner.

We believe that the answer to the question, "is remarriage adultery?" is a heart question. In some cases we believe that marriage itself can be adultery. If someone woos another person into a corrupt and captive version of marriage for any reason other than true love and the calling of God, then we believe that this would be viewed as adultery by God. This may seem like a strong statement, but there are many people the world over who do this! Many use the marriages laws of their countries or corrupted Biblical principles to capture and own another person for the purpose of security, sex, money, slavery, and many other godless reasons.

The reasons for marriage and remarriage are many. If a person misuses American marriage laws, they can marry, use, and divorce one person after another for shallow reasons and be perfectly legal. But God would just see this as a string of adulterous relationships.

On the other hand, a person may have a marriage end for legitimate reasons. God can lead a person to a new partner and bless a second marriage and the love, life, and ministry that flows from it.

God sees the heart. He knows when people are using each other and He knows when there is the capacity and desire for real love expressed in a lifelong relationship.

Jeremiah 3:8 "Lo I had put her out and given her a certificate of divorce"...He is speaking of Israel.

Notice as Don quotes above that God put her ( Israel) out and also had given her a certificate of divorce. I thought this was a very good explanation of divorce from a scriptural viewpoint. Because saddly today, many peoples view of divorce equates with with the unpardonable sin.

In Jesus

kevin

[Smalcald]

I don't say this rhetorically when I say I appreciate the emphasis you put on doing one's best to make marriages last.

I do completely disagree with your perspective on divorce in the blanket context you place it.

It might be remembered here that God Himself divorced Israel--actually gave it a certificate of divorce.

God may hate divorce, but He likely hates the sinning mind set that in a number of cases that leads to it more than the act itself. Because there are a number of cases where the final act of divorce itself is actually justified.

Number of godly people have accurately noted "Divorce itself is not always a sin. But it's, without fail, the result of sin (whichever side it's predominantly coming from, or often in the case of both parties to varying degrees)."

Well as long as we keep divorce legal, safe and plentiful we will all be fine.

But seriously I do agree that divorce is not always a sin, in fact it often is not sin for one of the parties. Most divorce however is a result of one of the parties simply not wanting to be married anymore and since they can rely on the Church to always bless divorce they have no problems spiritually; seeking divorce, their pastor is likely divorced for that matter.

There is a reason Evangelicals have such high rates of divorce; we accept it and we defend it I can always get far more people on this board to talk about the importance of divorce and how needed it is than I can get people to defend lifelong marriage vows regardless of the circumstances. When in reality we should be standing up against divorce with the same vigor we battle abortion and gay marriage. But we all know why we don't do that, even though scripture is much more clear about the evil of divorce than it is about homosexual sex or abortion.

[BigBert]

Again, it's surely a case-by-case matter (as you acknowledged). The problem, I think we actually can agree on, comes in cases where divorce is used as an excuse to avoid the hard matters in life. Unfortunately, as I'm finding out in talking with others, taking the other approach of assuming it's used as an excuse in most all cases can be a copout as well.

Sometimes, it's a lot easier to make assumptions of other people because we don't like what we see from the outside. Inside, though, walking in others' shoes can change the perspective dramatically.

That's all I'm saying. Thanks for the back-and-forth

I do agree also with you regarding some quarters seeming to push marriage too hard, as if it was mandatory. That, like taking the alternate approach, goes too far, in my opinion.

Edited August 19, 2009 by BigBert

[BigBert]

lilorox/Kevin, thanks for posting that. I addressed that in post #19 on this thread, but I then largely moved away from that because I wanted to address the spirit of the law even more as well as who Jesus was responding to and their obvious self-serving mind set.

What a far cry those Pharisees' thought process was to someone who, say, has endured an endless array of emotional or physical abuse or has been outright abandoned.

It's one or both spouse's hard heartedness that Jesus has a problem with and lead to the end result of divorce. In the case where one side remains unwilling to repent and try to reconcile, I don't believe God/Jesus would have the other party remain enslaved or bound to the vows that the guilty party already has broken.

[mjrhealth]

There is so much tied up in marriage and our lords return for His bride. Man was supposed to only ever have one wife, but like so many things with the fall of man, along comes some ungodly thing called divorce. Jesus is coming for His bride, spotless without blemish, a Virgin Church, she has not being polluted with the world, she is no whore. Their wil only ever be one wedding not like with us where women reamarry in white gowns showing their virginty even after both have slept with many . Jesus will not marry a whore, his church will not be tainted, by man, religion or this world. When you divorce, you leave a part of yourself with the first partner which means you can never truly love the second one, the more you divorce the harder it is to love the next, and Jesus will always be first He will not be second to anyone or anything, I have being divorced for many years, her choice not mine , and i have beat myself up over this for years trying to understand why even though I looked i always came back to realising I could never love anyone like I love Her and that if i did remarry it will all be an illusion, in that I could never really love the new one. So I choose to remain single, not much fun though. Their is so much to learn about God, bit it comes through experience, if you are looking for an excuse to divorce, then i am sure llike most you can justify it, but the only real reasons are partner sleeping with others or you are being abused by your partner, which is never your fault no matter what the devil says.

In His love

[renren]

Hmmm....I could be wrong, but am detecting a bit of defensiveness, meaning my wording may not have been as ideal as I'd have liked. Sorry, if that's the case.

I never said with any solid conviction that you would have needed to go through a harsh divorce to have a legitimate perspective. Instead, what I stated was I simply wondered if that's the case, because, with very few exceptions, those most critical (I don't mean outright condemning necessarily) of divorce have not gone through it, that's all. Therefore the question in my mind.

Regarding your following assertions about not 'needing' to have experienced the ills you listed, that's true. Yet, it's also often true that those who have gone through such are in a far stronger position to provide adequate counsel and be able to see the other side of the coin. For these very people have, in their experience, had the viewpoint of both sides. Again, not saying it's mandatory, but experience tells me that those who endure such have their eyes opened in such a way as to have a more valuable perspective.

There is, of course, no such "rule" that works in all cases.

As to being completed in Christ, there is no doubt that having Jesus in your life in a major way fills a lot of otherwise empty territory. Obviously, we can agree on that, period. I would add, however, that for many, God gave man an inherent yearning for companionship of the opposite sex. Know you recall Genesis, where despite man being in a perfect, sinless environment with close and undeterred fellowship with God Himself, the Lord deemed it "Not good for the man to be alone." As Josh McDowell, great Christian apologist stated, "that's amazing," in light of all that the first man had set up in his favor.

Again, not trying to denigrate your position, just simply stating others may have perspectives that are their own, and just as valid. You may well feel the same way.

Bert i totally agree with everything you said but i believe if we as christians sought to be complete in Christ then there would be way less divorce and remarriage.

Again i say all divorce is not wrong but most can be prevented if men and women stop putting pressure on their partners to be perfect and to make them happy. There is only one perfect and that is Jesus who gives fullness of joy.

The only point that I dont agree with fully is this

I would add, however, that for many, God gave man an inherent yearning for companionship of the opposite sex. Know you recall Genesis, where despite man being in a perfect, sinless environment with close and undeterred fellowship with God Himself, the Lord deemed it "Not good for the man to be alone." As Josh McDowell, great Christian apologist stated, "that's amazing," in light of all that the first man had set up in his favor.

I understand where you are coming from but I believe that Jesus has given us a higher calling. Adam and Eve in Genesis is not like what Jesus has in store for us now. when He comes back its not to restore how it was in Eden. We will be going to heaven with Him and we will be like the angels.

Mark 12:22-25

22And the seven had her, and left no seed: last of all the woman died also.

23In the resurrection therefore, when they shall rise, whose wife shall she be of them? for the seven had her to wife.

24And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?

25For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

So yes i agree we all have that longing for companionship as you said BUT that companion does not complete us. We are perfect and complete in Christ and the sooner people understand that and live by that more marriages will thrive and divorce will decrease significantly among christians.

Thats just my view on things.

[JCISGD]

Its taken 20 yrs, but i am now convinced all remmariage is adultery and the only exception is for the Jews betrothal period of 2 yrs and the man finds his virgin has committed fornication, or if we marry someone who is ineligable by law and therefore an invalid marriage.

Mathew wrote to the Jews but Mark, Luke, and John wrote to the rest.

The bible does not condone divorce and Gods supposed divorce was not physical or individual and it resulted in taking back wayward Israel.

The supposed clause given by Paul is inconsistant with the position of Jesus and the tenor of scripture, therefore shallow and discredited by way of reasonable doubt. "what ever is not faith is sin".

It is allowable to seperate for the sake of peace, but we are to remain single or reconcile. If the sexual urge is too strong for a seperated man the only option is reconcilliation or become a eunich by way of operation. Two stones will do, ouch!

Seriously Jesus wasnt joking when he said it was better to castrate than go to hell, this is why the disciples were dismayed and said "if thats the case with marriage, (no divorce) then maybe its better not to".

I know it sounds harsh to us, but Ezra made the Jews put away there inelliegable marriages even though some had children, and God expects the same if we wish to enter heaven.

The Jews often complained saying God was unjust and too hard, its the same for us when we come across something that goes against our cultures and entrenched beliefs, but Gods reply is, " No it is you who are unjust and hard hearted".

[tjhawks1]

i believe if we as christians sought to be complete in Christ then there would be way less divorce and remarriage.

Again i say all divorce is not wrong but most can be prevented if men and women stop putting pressure on their partners to be perfect and to make them happy. There is only one perfect and that is Jesus who gives fullness of joy.

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[~Shalhevet~]

1Corinthians 7:12-14

12To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. 14For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.

It is very difficult to live with and be married to a non-Christian.

Edited August 23, 2009 by asecretchord

[JCISGD]

1Corinthians 7:12-14

12To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. 14For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.

It is very difficult to live with and be married to a non-Christian.

It can be more difficult to live without a wife altogether, i have been single for 20 yrs now, not so much by choice but by wrong teaching and advice i recieved by pastors and friends.

We are allowed to seperate from an unbeliever for the sake of peace, but we are to pray and seek their salvation and then reconcilliation of our marriage.

I would qualify this however, if like me you are/were married to man or women previously married and having a living spouse, then it is/was adultery and not an acceptable marriage in Gods sight. These marriages are to broken off annuled. Anyone who has never been lawfully married, is free to marry lawfully unless God has given the gift of celibacy and a call to remain single as Paul, but this is the exception and not the rule. Most men have the urge to procreate and therefore each should have their own wife, and not fornicate or have another mans wife.

For those living with unbelieving spouses, begin to thank God for even the tiniest advantage and good thing they bring, and serve them as you would Jesus who has already said, " whatever you do to the least of these, you do to me".

Stay blessed in Jesus.