Marriage and divorce

[renren]

Yes i do agree that it is not about legalities but the bible clearly states that there is right and wrong. As christians i think we need to go back to the word and see what the bible says is right and wrong. Too many people use this 'we are not under the law but under grace' as an excuse to live by their emotions and desires instead of by the Word. I am not disputing the love of Christ and the gift of grace.

I know ppl. are human and we make mistakes..... but there is still right and wrong. Yes it is a fallen word and yes we have forgiveness through Christ.....that still does not mean that there is no wrong and right...if there was no wrong and right then there would be no need for forgiveness. So i am not disputing grace and forgiveness....... i am clearly stating the standards that are outlined in the bible. Dont twist the bible then say we all have grace.

Can i say ok we live in a fallen word so im going to have sex before marriage because we are under grace and its not about legalities???? No i cannot so fellow believes let us stop using God's gift of grace as an excuse to continue living by the flesh and emotions!!!!

The issue I have addressed is the idea of re-marriage. There are sins that we should not do. That is a given. I do not think JESUS intended this to be a statement against re-mariage but rather a statement of the results of divorce.

I am convinced HE doesn't intend for anyone to have to suffer through life alone, or in a bad marriage, as some kind of criminal life sentence for making a mistake.

Lol suffer through life alone?? Criminal life sentence??

Well it depends on where you draw your joy and strenght from. Paul was in some pretty bad situtaions but i dont think he suffered through life alone or that the felt that he was serving some criminal life sentence for his past sins.(and by the way i think paul was single)

If a person's joy and hope comes from who they are married to, then by all means we should divorce and remarry until we find the 'perfect' one (which does not exist).

But we as christians should know that marriage is just a temporary thing in the big scheme of things and so is our life here on earth. like Paul said he counts it all as naught.....

So what exactly are we christians divorcing and remarring for? What are we looking for in marriage?

To be complete? To be fulfilled??

Yes He wants us to have a wonderfull life...... but that does not depend on our circumstances.... enjoying life is based solely on intimate rship with Jesus.

People can always find reasons to marry and remarry but i think scripture is clear about such matters so this is all i have to say on the matter. People will use the word to scrath their itch but Jesus is God and He alone can judge.

Maybe im a bit radical when it comes to my views on marriage and remarriage.

Im single, Im complete in Christ ,totally satisfied and never alone.

Lets all set our hearts in Him and let Him be our only Hope.

[hillsong_girl]

My views are pretty set in stone on this subject: marriage is a union before God, intended for life, but under certain circumstances that union needs to be broken. Spousal abuse, child abuse, drug abuse, and other such choices....if the spouse involved has no desire to change or get help....game over. I know I would not stay married to someone who was abusing me. (Not that my husband would do that because he is wonderful!!!) But my point is I think it is a deep shame when anyone would be qucik to condemn someone who is being HURT by their spouse and look down on them if they sought to leave that spouse. I would hope no one would be so heartless, but I have met some who think that way.

[Smalcald]

Paul was not only single but advised that being single was a good way to serve God.

[kross]

Yes i do agree that it is not about legalities but the bible clearly states that there is right and wrong. As christians i think we need to go back to the word and see what the bible says is right and wrong. Too many people use this 'we are not under the law but under grace' as an excuse to live by their emotions and desires instead of by the Word. I am not disputing the love of Christ and the gift of grace.

I know ppl. are human and we make mistakes..... but there is still right and wrong. Yes it is a fallen word and yes we have forgiveness through Christ.....that still does not mean that there is no wrong and right...if there was no wrong and right then there would be no need for forgiveness. So i am not disputing grace and forgiveness....... i am clearly stating the standards that are outlined in the bible. Dont twist the bible then say we all have grace.

Can i say ok we live in a fallen word so im going to have sex before marriage because we are under grace and its not about legalities???? No i cannot so fellow believes let us stop using God's gift of grace as an excuse to continue living by the flesh and emotions!!!!

The issue I have addressed is the idea of re-marriage. There are sins that we should not do. That is a given. I do not think JESUS intended this to be a statement against re-mariage but rather a statement of the results of divorce.

I am convinced HE doesn't intend for anyone to have to suffer through life alone, or in a bad marriage, as some kind of criminal life sentence for making a mistake.

Lol suffer through life alone?? Criminal life sentence??

Well it depends on where you draw your joy and strenght from. Paul was in some pretty bad situtaions but i dont think he suffered through life alone or that the felt that he was serving some criminal life sentence for his past sins.(and by the way i think paul was single)

If a person's joy and hope comes from who they are married to, then by all means we should divorce and remarry until we find the 'perfect' one (which does not exist).

But we as christians should know that marriage is just a temporary thing in the big scheme of things and so is our life here on earth. like Paul said he counts it all as naught.....

So what exactly are we christians divorcing and remarring for? What are we looking for in marriage?

To be complete? To be fulfilled??

Yes He wants us to have a wonderfull life...... but that does not depend on our circumstances.... enjoying life is based solely on intimate rship with Jesus.

People can always find reasons to marry and remarry but i think scripture is clear about such matters so this is all i have to say on the matter. People will use the word to scrath their itch but Jesus is God and He alone can judge.

Maybe im a bit radical when it comes to my views on marriage and remarriage.

Im single, Im complete in Christ ,totally satisfied and never alone.

Lets all set our hearts in Him and let Him be our only Hope.

Paul was gifted to be what HE was. We do not determine what gifts we have.

[kross]

Paul was not only single but advised that being single was a good way to serve God.

I was recently told that Jewish tradition called for any member of the Sanhedin to be married. Paul was a member of the Sanhedrin.

[Smalcald]

Paul said in scripture that he was unmarried and went further to state that he thought others might benefit from that. So somewhere something is wrong, Paul was not married. Now maybe he was married later, maybe he was widowed? I don't know.

But look at some passages:

10The disciples said to him, "If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry."

11Jesus replied, "Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage[c]because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."

Christ Himself spoke of renouncing marriage for the Kingdom of heaven. When the diciples said it was better not to marry He did not correct them as being wrong, He simply said not everyone can do that, meaning many CAN do that. Being chaste and single is a wonderful way to serve Christ and fully accepted by Christ.

What does Paul say.

1Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry.[a]

Well that looks pretty direct.

As far as Paul being married:

8Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am.

So it is very clear that Paul was not married when he wrote this scripture and had no plans for marriage. However he may have been widowed? But regardless being single is certainly a calling of God for many people.

I think this is probably particularly true for those who have had so much trouble in the marital area?

[paul1149]

Thanks for raising this issue. I think the difference between "sending away" and divorce adds another dimension to our understanding. I think especially regarding the OT passages, it clarifies the original intent.

But I'm not so sure that translates perfectly over to the NT, as is claimed. Consider briefly Mt 19:

They said to Him,

[BigBert]

Hi everyone, I'm new to the board.

Going through a divorce in which my wife has been completely unwilling (unrepentant) in trying to reconcile to the point of near divorce (it should be finalized in about a month), I've taken a natural interest in this subject.

Renren,

While I applaud you big-time in feeling deeply satisfied with your life as a single, I still do wonder if you wouldn't have a different take on this subject if you had experienced the agony of a divorce, especially on the receiving end. (I will clarify that no party is likely absolved of all guilt, because it takes two--both in the good and the bad. However, sometimes one party is, by and large, much more "guilty")

I tend to disagree that "to put away" would equate to the same end result as far as Jesus is concerned. It seems logical, to me at least, that He would indeed consider that a man who merely "put away" a woman, and therefore did not legally divorce her, thereby is still married to her. As a result of his future actions, he's committing adultery, whether that totally male-dominated society deemed it acceptable (the practice of putting away without divorce) or not for the men. Apparently, this practice was all too common, and, as mentioned in the initial post, meant a nightmare for the woman.

It may also be noted that He's addressing these obviously hard-hearted and empty spirited men who are asking Him specifically about the area of divorce discussed in Deuteronomy. And He's turning their own practices around, showing them the utter error of their ways. Such was typical of Jesus, to cut through the hypocrisy and put responsibility for doing right and following God's spirit of the law in addition to the letter of it (not that they were even doing this).

Here's one of the passages in Matthew:

5:32 But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

--Unfortunately, the Greek in this passage for "divorces" and "divorced" would more accurately be "put away" (the word "apoluo" used instead of "apostasion," the latter meaning the legal divorce document).

The same thing applies with Matthew 19:9.

I would fully agree with you that there's a good chance some Christians even may use certain scriptures merely as a convenient out to justify what they know down deep is against God's will. However, I think this comes back to the inevitable, individual responsibility through the Holy Spirit, Who writes His law on our hearts and consciences.

I do think, having scanned many forums in recent weeks, that there's a sharp tendency to be hyper critical to those who've deeply suffered from spousal stings that seem relentless and unrepentant. I find it hard to fathom that a truly loving, grace filled God would shackle such victims through some of the very legalistic limitations He often preached heartily against Himself.

[BigBert]

good post, nazorai, and a great reminder that we need to consider the words/verses in the context of their times. Sometimes, that doesn't change the meaning of the words; other times it does.

I would find it also extremely difficult to believe Jesus would not have allowed for divorce as well in the case of, say, an unrepentant abuser (physical or emotional, perhaps). That would go for the man or the woman being the abuser.

In any case, Jesus was responding directly to those questioning Him on the divorce mandates in Deuteronomy. There are additional grounds outlined in Exodus 21:10, pertaining I believe primarily to "slave wives" (another whole subject). [The criteria here covered critical areas of neglect.] However, simple logic would dictate if a slave would have such grounds, certainly a real wife would all the more.

I think when we consider the Greek words, the spirit of the law over the letter (when/if the two clash), and Jesus saying He didn't come to abolish altogether the law, that we can see the allowances for divorce in the Old Testament aren't obliterated. Merely, that Jesus was appealing to the far higher value of love over legality.

And there were, at the time, two divided camps on how to interpret Deuteronomy's grounds for divorce. Unfortunately, especially for the women, many men opted for the unlimited "for any cause" criteria. Jesus quickly dispensed with that notion. Whether he was specifically dealing with "put away" or divorce, undoubtedly He disagreed with the hard-heartedness of those testing Him.

Edited August 18, 2009 by BigBert

[Smalcald]

True.

If we compare that today to how we divorce as a culture, which is exactly an un limited for any cause criteria we see how far off we are from the teachings of Christ. The secular world calls it no fault divorce, which is ludicrous on its face.

Outside of the Catholic Church, the Christian Churches have simply walked away from the whole thing and said basically divorce and be happy leave us out of it; just be sure to repent at some point. When in reality the Church should be guiding us on when and how to divorce in a biblical way. It could be one of the reasons that Evangelicals have such a problem with divorce. But it certainly is a scandal that born again Christians have a higher divorce rate than those who are not Christian at all.