The Westminister confession of faith

[JCISGD]

The work of righteousness is of course the work of God. We are to be perfect even as the Father in heaven is perfect. Christ came to bless us in turning away everyone of you from his iniquity (Ac 3:26). It is the work of God that sin is taken out of our lives. It is and can only be the work of God.

The law came which put us in sin, for without the law is no transgression. We know sin by the law, and the law is our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ. All the work of God.

If a person belives that they cannot be without sin, most likely they have heard that from a preacher. What then is the sin of the preacher that preaches that?...... there can be some very vile sins in this world!! It is not just about thoughts... but actual sin.

Again this freedom from sin is the work of God. It is not about being better than anyone, or anything like that. It is just the work of God. It is what Christ came to do, us taking on the image of Christ..... Christ in us the hope of glory.

I agree fully with this post, so i take it you are against that part of the Westminister Confession also?

Jeremiah

Hi Jeremiah, i agree fully with the first sentence, but am not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing with the Westminister Confession, that we cannot be perfect reguardless of the Grace/Work of God in our lives?

Yes i fully agree, so i can take it that you disagree with that part of the Westminister Confession that says no matter how much grace abounds no man can stop sinning?

To be clear i disagree with that part of it.

I believe that the work of grace takes us out of sin completely. That the work of grace makes us perfect. I preach that God's work stops sin in our lives. If there be anything within me that is sin, that I am unaware of, God will revel it and take it out of me completely. So then we walk perfect by the grace of God, and on in perfection.

Jesus of Nazareth was known as the Christ (anointed one) because of the obvious work of God. Now it is to be Christ in us the hope of glory!

The scriptures say this in I Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. How did Christ walk? It says this in I Pet 2:21-22 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

So then it is not just about a man 2,000 or so years ago called the Christ. It is now Christ is us! To be perfect by the work of the grace of God, and faith (works) in that grace. As the scripture also says in Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:. And then of course in James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

There are things within the Word of God that speak to the elect, that tell them what they must do...Not the law of sin and death...But the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.

I hope that that answers your question.

Jeremiah

I agree with you fully there Jeremiah, so i take it you do disagree with that part of the Westminister Confession in question in the OP?

[EricH]

The work of righteousness is of course the work of God. We are to be perfect even as the Father in heaven is perfect. Christ came to bless us in turning away everyone of you from his iniquity (Ac 3:26). It is the work of God that sin is taken out of our lives. It is and can only be the work of God.

The law came which put us in sin, for without the law is no transgression. We know sin by the law, and the law is our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ. All the work of God.

If a person belives that they cannot be without sin, most likely they have heard that from a preacher. What then is the sin of the preacher that preaches that?...... there can be some very vile sins in this world!! It is not just about thoughts... but actual sin.

Again this freedom from sin is the work of God. It is not about being better than anyone, or anything like that. It is just the work of God. It is what Christ came to do, us taking on the image of Christ..... Christ in us the hope of glory.

I agree fully with this post, so i take it you are against that part of the Westminister Confession also?

Jeremiah

Hi Jeremiah, i agree fully with the first sentence, but am not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing with the Westminister Confession, that we cannot be perfect reguardless of the Grace/Work of God in our lives?

Yes i fully agree, so i can take it that you disagree with that part of the Westminister Confession that says no matter how much grace abounds no man can stop sinning?

To be clear i disagree with that part of it.

I believe that the work of grace takes us out of sin completely. That the work of grace makes us perfect. I preach that God's work stops sin in our lives. If there be anything within me that is sin, that I am unaware of, God will revel it and take it out of me completely. So then we walk perfect by the grace of God, and on in perfection.

Jesus of Nazareth was known as the Christ (anointed one) because of the obvious work of God. Now it is to be Christ in us the hope of glory!

The scriptures say this in I Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. How did Christ walk? It says this in I Pet 2:21-22 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

So then it is not just about a man 2,000 or so years ago called the Christ. It is now Christ is us! To be perfect by the work of the grace of God, and faith (works) in that grace. As the scripture also says in Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:. And then of course in James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

There are things within the Word of God that speak to the elect, that tell them what they must do...Not the law of sin and death...But the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.

I hope that that answers your question.

Jeremiah

I agree with you fully there Jeremiah, so i take it you do disagree with that part of the Westminister Confession in question in the OP?

So y'all believe sinless perfection is possible here on earthy?

[JCISGD]

Hi Eric i do but this is not to be confused with perfectionism which is error.

The perfection God requires is our reasonable service and obedience to the known expressed will of God.

It is not the what colour socks shall i wear type of will of God, but the clear conscience of being free of offense towards God and man and obeying God when we know He has expressly asked us to do something.

It is not being as perfect as God, but being what we are reasonable able to be given our individual constitutions and circumstances.

[EricH]

Hi Eric i do but this is not to be confused with perfectionism which is error.

The perfection God requires is our reasonable service and obedience to the known expressed will of God.

It is not the what colour socks shall i wear type of will of God, but the clear conscience of being free of offense towards God and man and obeying God when we know He has expressly asked us to do something.

It is not being as perfect as God, but being what we are reasonable able to be given our individual constitutions and circumstances.

I am not sure what you mean by that? it sounds like you are saying sinless by our standards and not by Gods

[BigBert]

Hi Eric i do but this is not to be confused with perfectionism which is error.

The perfection God requires is our reasonable service and obedience to the known expressed will of God.

It is not the what colour socks shall i wear type of will of God, but the clear conscience of being free of offense towards God and man and obeying God when we know He has expressly asked us to do something.

It is not being as perfect as God, but being what we are reasonable able to be given our individual constitutions and circumstances.

I am not sure what you mean by that? it sounds like you are saying sinless by our standards and not by Gods

Have to admit that's the way I read it too. It becomes confusing to me.

[JCISGD]

hi BB and Eric i had written a solid explanation only for a computer glitch wiped it seconds before pressing submit, not funny.

I may elaborate later or as your questions deem.

Breifly, most people have a much higher standard than God, and indeed they make it an impossible standard thereby accusing God of unreasonableness and tyranny.

We all belong to God from conception, but we all have stolen ourselves from Him so that we can obey ourself and do as we see best or want. All God requires is that we now do everything in the way He would do it and when He would.

This is not vague or requiring undue dilligence, such as praying to ask what colour socks to wear but living within our conscience and the expressly revealed will of God in our lives.

This Paul did, claiming to have a clear conscience without fault before God and man. If this is not living without sinning what is ? is not exactly how our LORD Himself lived.

Jesus did not have extra faculties or constitution, but only used all of them as God intended.

[BigBert]

hi BB and Eric i had written a solid explanation only for a computer glitch wiped it seconds before pressing submit, not funny.

I may elaborate later or as your questions deem.

Breifly, most people have a much higher standard than God, and indeed they make it an impossible standard thereby accusing God of unreasonableness and tyranny.

We all belong to God from conception, but we all have stolen ourselves from Him so that we can obey ourself and do as we see best or want. All God requires is that we now do everything in the way He would do it and when He would.

This is not vague or requiring undue dilligence, such as praying to ask what colour socks to wear but living within our conscience and the expressly revealed will of God in our lives.

This Paul did, claiming to have a clear conscience without fault before God and man. If this is not living without sinning what is ? is not exactly how our LORD Himself lived.

Jesus did not have extra faculties or constitution, but only used all of them as God intended.

Hmmm...not sure, because the first thing that pops to mind is how Jesus went well beyond even the commandments and statutes by taking it to the level of thoughts that needed to even be pure. Granted, much of this was to prompt people to realize they absolutely need Jesus for salvation and cannot in any way rely on themselves. However, I also think it more than hints at just how incredibly holy He is, that He is of course absolute perfection in every sense.

Does that make sense, or do you view such verses differently?

[EricH]

hi BB and Eric i had written a solid explanation only for a computer glitch wiped it seconds before pressing submit, not funny.

I may elaborate later or as your questions deem.

Breifly, most people have a much higher standard than God, and indeed they make it an impossible standard thereby accusing God of unreasonableness and tyranny.

We all belong to God from conception, but we all have stolen ourselves from Him so that we can obey ourself and do as we see best or want. All God requires is that we now do everything in the way He would do it and when He would.

This is not vague or requiring undue dilligence, such as praying to ask what colour socks to wear but living within our conscience and the expressly revealed will of God in our lives.

This Paul did, claiming to have a clear conscience without fault before God and man. If this is not living without sinning what is ? is not exactly how our LORD Himself lived.

Jesus did not have extra faculties or constitution, but only used all of them as God intended.

I am still not understanding what you are saying

[BigBert]

hi BB and Eric i had written a solid explanation only for a computer glitch wiped it seconds before pressing submit, not funny.

I may elaborate later or as your questions deem.

Breifly, most people have a much higher standard than God, and indeed they make it an impossible standard thereby accusing God of unreasonableness and tyranny.

We all belong to God from conception, but we all have stolen ourselves from Him so that we can obey ourself and do as we see best or want. All God requires is that we now do everything in the way He would do it and when He would.

This is not vague or requiring undue dilligence, such as praying to ask what colour socks to wear but living within our conscience and the expressly revealed will of God in our lives.

This Paul did, claiming to have a clear conscience without fault before God and man. If this is not living without sinning what is ? is not exactly how our LORD Himself lived.

Jesus did not have extra faculties or constitution, but only used all of them as God intended.

I am still not understanding what you are saying

That may be why I'm also having trouble perhaps answering clearly.

[Jeremiah Joel]

Hello JCISGD & all:

The answer to you regarding if I disagree with the statement of faith; saying that you cannot be without sin in this life would be true.

To those on this thread that may have some raised eyebrows at this time... Let me clarify something. There is the law of sin and death. The law makes us know what sin is. Without the law there is no transgression (sin). Rm 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. It is by the law that we know what sin is. It is the law that brings us to Christ.

It may seem strange in a way that the law brings forth sin Rm 7:9-10 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

And it is the law that is our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ In Gal 3:21-25 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

It is not by following the law of thou shalt not. If that were the case the there is absolutely no reason for Christ to have come in the first place. I know what sin is by the law. But there is another law that I seek God for..... which is the law of the Spirit of life in Christ. There are things that are given in Christ that takes away sin...things that we are to do that is all acts of faith.

If God where to revel something to me that is sin, I turn to him in prayer and faith to take it away..... and he revels to me what he would have me to do by faith.

Most people will go to Rm 7:1-23 and use this reference to say: "see we cannot be without sin". But they fail the grace of God by not reading the rest of what Paul was saying...thereby staying in sin. Paul went on to say this in Rm 7:24-25 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Then also in Rm 8:1-2 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Why stop at Rm 7:23 and live in sin and death.... read the rest. We are: "free from the law of sin and death."[ Not free to continue in sin..... but totally free from sin.

You need to ask yourself this question. If we cannot be without sin, then what sin(s) can we do? If you preach against being a homosexual; that it is sin.... then what about your sin(s). I am not throwing stones here...just making a point. If that is what we do, then we are nothing more than hypocrites. We preach against certain sin or sins..... yet we ourselves have our own sin(s) that we continue to live in. You cannot preach against homosexuality that it is sin and must stop; yet continue to live in your own sins.

Remember it is not by the law of thou shalt not..... look at the religious people in the day of Christ, we can see that that is not how righteousness comes!! There is a law of faith that brings forth rigthoeusness. A law(s) given by God.

Jeremiah