truthnluv Posted July 15, 2004 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 93 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/12/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 15, 2004 (edited) I am a little confused here, let me see if I get this right... I was widowed for about 1 year and a half and I started dating a man who I thought was a Christian, we started having sex...after a few weeks I broke up with him because I knew I could not continue sleeping with him, I knew it was wrong and felt really bad, in fact soon I was in a serious depression. Four years later I marry a Christian man, are you saying I am committing adultery because I am really married to the other man I had sex with? Yes. The Christian man is your husband. You should remain single or be reconciled to him(1Cor.7:11). I'm sure you'll be very upset when you read this. After all, I'm suggesting that you completely uproot your life and look like a fool in the eyes of the world! But I correct you; I am not suggesting anything. God through His word is commanding you to obey His will in your life. It doesn't matter how you feel or what the world thinks(including Christians who agree with the world). The only thing that matters is what God says. Whatever He says is Right and Just and Wise. If anyone disagrees with God, "Let God be true and every man a liar" Romans 3:4 You did not sin when you had sex with the Christian man. You were a widow and eligible for remarriage(1Cor 7:39). When you had sex with him(became one flesh) that constituted a marriage in Gods eyes. "Therefore, what God has joined together let no man put asunder" Matthew 19:6 Grace and Peace sister Edited July 15, 2004 by truthnluv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthnluv Posted July 15, 2004 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 93 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/12/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 15, 2004 Truth and Luv I think; and I can't ever remember saying this to anyone on this site; that you are only stirring up trouble amoung us. It is one thing to debate,,,,, but that is not what this is all about I pray that Jesus truly hears the desires of your heart and you will forgive me for my boldness, if I am indeed wrong IN HIS LOVE KAY Hello, Kay. You are wrong. I'm not trying to stir up trouble at all. I love God and I love those that were born of Him(you all). Satan's goal is to decieve the believer(Ephesians 6:16, 6:10-12). To make his life inneffective and then to accuse him day and night before God's throne(Rev. 12:10). Notice, he is not falsely accusing us... just accusing us. We need the shield of faith(God's word) in order to protect ourselves for the poisonous darts of the wicked one(error). I just want to help believers understand the truth in their walk with Christ so they can experience the beauty of fellowship and the joy of recieving a full reward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serotta Posted July 15, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 496 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/18/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/20/1959 Share Posted July 15, 2004 I'm sorry truthnluv, but I think you're missing a very important distinction. In all cases that I recall in the bible a wedding comes before the marriage-bed. The wedding therefore is the commitment, and therefore pre-marital sex is more aptly called sex outside of wedlock. The act of sex consumates the marriage, but sex without a wedding does not a marriage make. And again, the only unforgivable sin is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, so to say that anyone that has had sex with a virgin and then gone on to marry someone else is living in perpetual sin is a contradiction. Think of the Samaritan woman at the well. When she said she had no husband Jesus said she was telling the truth because she had had 5 husbands and the man she was living with now was not her husband. He didn't tell her to return to her "first" (only?) husband. IMO, you do not have a right understanding of scripture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthnluv Posted July 15, 2004 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 93 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/12/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 15, 2004 (edited) I'm sorry truthnluv, but I think you're missing a very important distinction. In all cases that I recall in the bible a wedding comes before the marriage-bed. The wedding therefore is the commitment, and therefore pre-marital sex is more aptly called sex outside of wedlock. The act of sex consumates the marriage, but sex without a wedding does not a marriage make. And again, the only unforgivable sin is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, so to say that anyone that has had sex with a virgin and then gone on to marry someone else is living in perpetual sin is a contradiction. Think of the Samaritan woman at the well. When she said she had no husband Jesus said she was telling the truth because she had had 5 husbands and the man she was living with now was not her husband. He didn't tell her to return to her "first" (only?) husband. IMO, you do not have a right understanding of scripture. Did Adam and Eve have a "wedding". Did God perform some ceremony with rings and dresses and tuxedos? No, He simply made the woman and brought her to the man(Genesis 2:22). Did Isaac and Rebekah have a ceremony? Did all ancient jews have ceremonies(Deut.22:28-29)Did first century Christians who were under persecution and often on the run and in hiding always have the option of a ceremony? No, no, and probably not. The only unforgivable sin is any sin that you don't confess, brother. "If we confess our sins He is faithful and Just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness."1John 1:9 It should be noted that the penalty for sin is death and hell(Romans 6:23). This penalty has already been paid by Christ on the Cross. A Christian is not in danger of hell when they sin, but there are still penalties for sin including sickness and physical death and other chastisements(1Corinthians 11:30-32). Also, unconfessed sin breaks fellowship with God(1John 1:6-10) In regard to the Samaritan woman the word translated as husband just means man. The legal term husband did not exist in the greek language. The word is aner in the greek. She had five men and the man she was with wasn't actually her man. Its a play on words in the greek. Edited July 15, 2004 by truthnluv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
serotta Posted July 15, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 496 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/18/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/20/1959 Share Posted July 15, 2004 aner- fellow, husband, man, sir to try and twist this story to say that Jesus was just talking about some "men" is wrong. Jesus was making a point. The Samaritan women was at the well by herself at the hottest part of the day. She had been "shunned". Most likely she had been married 5 times and divorced 5 times for adultery, and Jesus recognized that. The point is that Jesus did not condemn her, He saved her, and not by telling her to go back to her first husband. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagz4Christ Posted July 15, 2004 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 25 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 511 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/18/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/08/1975 Share Posted July 15, 2004 i have a question to all involved....... Does anyone REALLY think this is edifying? Or is it more divisive? What can be accomplished by continuing this discussion? It has been my observation that topics like this only serve one function... That is to add more weight to an already burdonsome task as trying to uphold our responsibilities toward Christ. The posters of such posts, more often than not, post out of genuine (albeit misplaced) concern due to an error in interpretation of the Word of God. It is evident that this person will not be persuaded from thier position. I must admit, I do not know anything about this subject; I haven't studied it in depth; but what I DO know is that Scripture cannot contradict itself. Whatever the outcome of a PERSONAL study on this subject, we must keep a few things in mind... 1. We are not professional theologians. 2. We are all weak minded and can be easily swayed by whatever sounds good, or true. 3. We need more than a concordance and a *little voice in our head* to understand the Word correctly. However, no matter how harsh this may sound to you, I do have something I want you to take away from this whole thing ... Whether this topic was started out of genuine concern for the holiness of God's people, or a blatent attempt to derail some of God's children or lead them astray, God's Will WILL be accomplished, and HE will be glorified. I suggest leaving this topic alone...nothing productive can come from it. ~serving Christ in faith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymous Posted July 15, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 97 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,550 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/15/1943 Share Posted July 15, 2004 Once you're saved, the whole slate is wiped clean. CLEAN! It's over. Forgotten. Why not just leave your past behind and move forward. We're new creations in Christ and everything behind us if history. God has forgotten it....our sins are as far as the east is from the west.... So, we need to get past the past and move on. !! "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new." 2 Corinthians 5:17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kay Posted July 15, 2004 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 267 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/23/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/14/1958 Share Posted July 15, 2004 There is absolutely nothing edifying about this thread!!!! I pray for you, truth; and I no longer will track this!!! Luv to all of YOU!!! JESUS loves us sinners; not our sins; and God can not look upon sin, so thank you Jesus for forigiving me of ALL my sins Kay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 ok, i just have to ask... if what you're saying is so, then please explain why concubines and handmaids were never referred to in scripture as wives? and explain the specifics of deuteronomy 22, if you can... here, i'll give a few examples of what needs explaining... if a man comes across a virgin who is 'pledged to be married' and has consensual sex with her, they must both be stoned. if a man comes across a virgin who is pledged to be married and has nonconsensual sex with her, only he is to be stoned. if a man comes across a virgin who is NOT pledged to be married, and has non-consensual sex with her, then he MUST MARRY her. note here, he's had sex with her already but is not yet married to her, but he is commanded to do so. also in that chapter, if a man marries a woman who claims to be a virgin, and then AFTER consummating their marriage insists she was not truly a virgin, the family must go before the elders to determine who is telling the truth, and whoever is lying must be punished. note here, the man has already married the woman BEFORE having sex with her. why does scripture so frequently warn about both fornication AND adultry, if there's not really any such thing as premarital sex? why, in the OT, was it such a crime for a betrothed couple to engage in sexual relations prior to the wedding ceremony? remember, even joseph was concerned that mary became pregnant prior to their marriage, although they were betrothed. now, if one was considered already married once sex occurred, there would have been nothing to worry about because nobody would have thought twice about her becoming pregnant. why does the bible tell stories of wedding ceremonies which end with the new groom taking his bride to the marriage bed to consummate it? sorry, it just does not line up with scripture to say that sex is what determines ones marital status. the wedding is supposed to take place first. adam and eve did not have a typical wedding ceremony where her father gave away the bride. God created her... He was her ONLY father... and in creating her to be a helpmate to adam, he 'gave away the bride in the very first wedding'... just no bells and whistles. in those earliest days of creation, things were different. after all, who do you think adam and eve's children married? yet God later forbids marriage between siblings. so just because something was or wasn't done in the very beginning of time does not negate its significance, or its validity, in the eyes of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthnluv Posted July 16, 2004 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 93 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/12/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 16, 2004 (edited) ok, i just have to ask... if what you're saying is so, then please explain why concubines and handmaids were never referred to in scripture as wives? and explain the specifics of deuteronomy 22, if you can... here, i'll give a few examples of what needs explaining... if a man comes across a virgin who is 'pledged to be married' and has consensual sex with her, they must both be stoned. if a man comes across a virgin who is pledged to be married and has nonconsensual sex with her, only he is to be stoned. if a man comes across a virgin who is NOT pledged to be married, and has non-consensual sex with her, then he MUST MARRY her. note here, he's had sex with her already but is not yet married to her, but he is commanded to do so. also in that chapter, if a man marries a woman who claims to be a virgin, and then AFTER consummating their marriage insists she was not truly a virgin, the family must go before the elders to determine who is telling the truth, and whoever is lying must be punished. note here, the man has already married the woman BEFORE having sex with her. why does scripture so frequently warn about both fornication AND adultry, if there's not really any such thing as premarital sex? why, in the OT, was it such a crime for a betrothed couple to engage in sexual relations prior to the wedding ceremony? remember, even joseph was concerned that mary became pregnant prior to their marriage, although they were betrothed. now, if one was considered already married once sex occurred, there would have been nothing to worry about because nobody would have thought twice about her becoming pregnant. why does the bible tell stories of wedding ceremonies which end with the new groom taking his bride to the marriage bed to consummate it? sorry, it just does not line up with scripture to say that sex is what determines ones marital status. the wedding is supposed to take place first. adam and eve did not have a typical wedding ceremony where her father gave away the bride. God created her... He was her ONLY father... and in creating her to be a helpmate to adam, he 'gave away the bride in the very first wedding'... just no bells and whistles. in those earliest days of creation, things were different. after all, who do you think adam and eve's children married? yet God later forbids marriage between siblings. so just because something was or wasn't done in the very beginning of time does not negate its significance, or its validity, in the eyes of God. Concubines were wives with less status. They did not have the same rights of inheritance nor did their children(Gen.25:5-6). A handmaid is just a servant. Jacob(Isreal) just happened to take two handmaids as his women(wives). Betrothal was binding under Jewish law. In order to break it a divorce was required(Matt. 1:18-19). A breach of betrothal was punishable by death. Your not reading the passage in Deuteronomy correctly. They are already married. It says she shall be his wife BECAUSE he has humbled her. This is a reference to the act of of them becoming one flesh. That is why she is his wife... because he humbled her. The marriage is contingent upon the proof of her virginity(the sheets). Fornication(porneia in the greek) is a broad term which includes(adultery, homosexuality, beastiality, etc). These terms are used interchangeably with fornication. The bible never says anything about pre-marital sex because there is no such thing. Sex IS marriage. The marriage celebration or ceremony was cultural and optional. It did not always occur. Do you think the Jews could always perform this ceremony during their various captivities. Do you think Christian slaves in this country performed Christian ceremonies(Their ceremony involved jumping over a broom by the way)? Do you know any Christians who had the same ceremony outlined in Jewish tradition? It varies from culture to culture and its optional. Feel free to have one if you like, but if you don't and you become one flesh with a man you are still married to him. Yes! No bells and whistles neccessary! That's what I'm saying. And I do believe you should have the father's permission. Marrying a girl against her father's wishes is unscriptural, in my opinion. Its wrong, but even if you become one flesh with her you become her husband anyway. Edited July 16, 2004 by truthnluv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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