Guest Ken Rank Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Note: I am not interested in a debate on whether you should eat biblically clean or not. Rather, I simply wanted to share a different perspective on Peter's vision. Before I begin, I need to share a few observations concerning visions and dreams. We have many plain examples of dreams and visions in the Scriptures. Lets start with one of my favorite stories in the bible, that of Joseph. If you haven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mizzdy Posted September 28, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 173 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,911 Content Per Day: 0.67 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 10 Joined: 03/21/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted September 28, 2009 What was God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ken Rank Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 (edited) Wasn't the vision to say that it is God who makes all things clean? That Cornelius was made clean by his belief in God? Greetings Mizzdy. My take on this is that God used as symbols something Peter could relate to. Imagine the scene... God tells him three times to stand and eat, and three times Peter tells God... "NO?" You gotta be kidding me! Jewish Law (not to be confused with God's Law) at the time said that a Jew could not eat with a gentile, go into the home of a gentile, not allow a gentile in the Temple, etc. The reason, Jewish Law considered gentiles unclean. So God uses symbols Peter can understand, unclean animals, to show that what God has made clean, man should not call unclean. Peter shares this vision both with Cornelius as well as with other Jews when he returned. In each case the message Peter took from the vision had nothing to do with food, but with people. The gospel is for ALL people, not just Judah. (Jews) Now many of course see a double meaning to this vision, but then what is the double meaning to the Pharaoh's dream? That if you put healthy cows in the same pen with sick cows, the sick cows will eat the healthy ones? That doesn't make any sense. Nor, to me, does it make sense that God, who gave "everlasting" commands concerning clean and unclean foods, would change his mind later (as if he does NOT know everything) and trump his own "everlasting" command. To me, and this doesn't have to be for you, everlasting means everlasting. God does not change. Peace. Ken Edited September 29, 2009 by Ken Rank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 .... God, who gave "everlasting" commands concerning clean and unclean foods, would change his mind later (as if he does NOT know everything) and trump his own "everlasting" command. To me, and this doesn't have to be for you, everlasting means everlasting. God does not change .... Look Kenny! The Altar And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar. Genesis 8:20 And Grandpa's Table Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat. Genesis 9:3-4 And Who Would Think God Not Able? And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. Acts 10:13-15 For Even The Holy Spirit Through Brother Agrees Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. Romans 14:1-4 >>>>>()<<<<< Eat Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts. Jeremiah 15:16 And Be Blessed Beloved Love, Joe But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand: Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man. Matthew 15:9-11 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call. Joel 2:32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ken Rank Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 I am not sure what side you just came down on Joe. I appreciate you taking the time though. Below is the list of what God believes to be clean and unclean. What an individual does is entirely between them and God. The question Joe, isn't even on of what is clean or not, the question is..."Was the Law of God nailed to the cross?" Mainstream Christianity says yes, I no longer believe the Scriptures itself agrees. Without law, without something to be measured against, what need is there is grace? Deu 14:1 Ye are the children of the LORD your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead. Deu 14:2 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth. Deu 14:3 Thou shalt not eat any abominable thing. Deu 14:4 These are the beasts which ye shall eat: the ox, the sheep, and the goat, Deu 14:5 The hart, and the roebuck, and the fallow deer, and the wild goat, and the pygarg, and the wild ox, and the chamois. Deu 14:6 And every beast that parteth the hoof, and cleaveth the cleft into two claws, and cheweth the cud among the beasts, that ye shall eat. Deu 14:7 Nevertheless these ye shall not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the cloven hoof; as the camel, and the hare, and the coney: for they chew the cud, but divide not the hoof; therefore they are unclean unto you. Deu 14:8 And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase. Deu 14:9 These ye shall eat of all that are in the waters: all that have fins and scales shall ye eat: Deu 14:10 And whatsoever hath not fins and scales ye may not eat; it is unclean unto you. Deu 14:11 Of all clean birds ye shall eat. Deu 14:12 But these are they of which ye shall not eat: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray, Deu 14:13 And the glede, and the kite, and the vulture after his kind, Deu 14:14 And every raven after his kind, Deu 14:15 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind, Deu 14:16 The little owl, and the great owl, and the swan, Deu 14:17 And the pelican, and the gier eagle, and the cormorant, Deu 14:18 And the stork, and the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat. Deu 14:19 And every creeping thing that flieth is unclean unto you: they shall not be eaten. Deu 14:20 But of all clean fowls ye may eat. Deu 14:21 Ye shall not eat of any thing that dieth of itself: thou shalt give it unto the stranger that is in thy gates, that he may eat it; or thou mayest sell it unto an alien: for thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk. It's either part of the everlasting Torah of God, or not. And yes it applies to Israel, but are we not Israel through faith? (Ephesians 2) Peace. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted September 29, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted September 29, 2009 Note: I am not interested in a debate on whether you should eat biblically clean or not. Rather, I simply wanted to share a different perspective on Peter's vision. Before I begin, I need to share a few observations concerning visions and dreams. We have many plain examples of dreams and visions in the Scriptures. Lets start with one of my favorite stories in the bible, that of Joseph. If you haven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ken Rank Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 Eric, I mean it when I say that I don't want to change anyone's belief. How you practice is your choice and is between you and God. But if you want to have a discussion on it, I would be happy to. We could start with 1 Tim 4 if you wish, or even Acts 15. Gotta run and get some work done. Peace Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricH Posted September 29, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 366 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,933 Content Per Day: 1.57 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/21/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted September 29, 2009 Eric, I mean it when I say that I don't want to change anyone's belief. How you practice is your choice and is between you and God. But if you want to have a discussion on it, I would be happy to. We could start with 1 Tim 4 if you wish, or even Acts 15. Gotta run and get some work done. Peace Ken They seem pretty clear to me, but I am always interested in hearing a different perspective Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 29, 2009 Share Posted September 29, 2009 ..... It's either part of the everlasting Torah of God, or not. And yes it applies to Israel, but are we not Israel through faith? (Ephesians 2).... Start In The Beginnings Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat. Genesis 9:3-4 I Believe Every Word Of It Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oak Posted September 29, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 503 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 31 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/14/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted September 29, 2009 (edited) Ken - I would take me at least two pages to address all the issue you raise - however I'm going to make points that I hope might be helpful to you: a) In the Old Testament God is in enmity with man; in the New Testament man and God are reconciled through Jesus Christ. Analyze both books from this perspective. b) I don't know Aramaic, Greek, or Latin (except for some phrases). But I believe trance and sleep are not interchangeable; in Revelation John fell into a trance though he was given something sweet / bitter to eat. I think Peter shared a very similar state of trance and visions. c) In fact sleep is almost not mention in the NT except for the Wiseman. d) This say's it all to me about food even as a symbol of, "(scarcity of food) Edited September 30, 2009 by oak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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