Botz Posted October 4, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 76 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,492 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 191 Days Won: 18 Joined: 03/29/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 4, 2009 Evolution and abiogenesis are different theories. "Evolutionists" is a name that was placed on people who want a natural explanation of our existence by religious fundies. Evolution is a fact. Abiogenesis is still in its hypothesis stage, but feel free to google it. You can also look into the Miller-Urey experiments, the Deep Sea Vent Theory, and the PANH world hypothesis. None of these have been validated, but they are an attempt to explain our natural existence rather than "god did it". I think it takes more "faith" to believe that we were created from dust rather than evolving from primates. Just because a 'fundie' like me believes G-d created us and the earth we live on, does not mean that we oppose science, or don't look into things to understand how they function from a scientific view-point...it just means that we are happy to acknowledge the evidence provided through the biblical account, and do not accept the scientific explanations that are in opposition to what we perceive as true...and having come from a source that we believe is beyond question. Evolution in its fullest sense is not a fact...but is nearer a religious/scientific faith that seeks to replace G-d with the myth of mans own brilliance, by supposedly demonstrating our total self-sufficiency through knowledge...and ultimately how through science/knowledge G-d has at last been relegated to a vaguely remembered fairy-tale. Ahh...but to the evident consternation of ardent evolutionists...fundies still persist to believe in this mythical being, and talk about Jesus as if He was still around after two thousand years...and continue to dismiss the most advanced scientific theories by such great and learned scholars...when they don't even have the vaguest of ideas what these theories and hypotheses entail...just plain ignorance and brain-washing I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted October 4, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.10 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted October 4, 2009 In the same way scientists get a little upset when laymen stroll up and start telling the public that they are all lying incompetents because their theories contradict your opinions about the Bible. You missed the point by the usual wide berth, Lurker. It's not the opinions of 'laymen' that are contradicted by the TOE but the word of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted October 4, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.10 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted October 4, 2009 Evolution and abiogenesis are different theories. The operative word being 'theories'. "Evolutionists" is a name that was placed on people who want a natural explanation of our existence by religious fundies. And why do they want a natural explanation? It seems to be very important to them to disprove the Bible. Btw, the term 'fundies' isn't going to further your argument. Evolution is a fact. Evolution is a theory; ever heard of the TOE? Abiogenesis is still in its hypothesis stage, but feel free to google it. You can also look into the Miller-Urey experiments, the Deep Sea Vent Theory, and the PANH world hypothesis. None of these have been validated, but they are an attempt to explain our natural existence rather than "god did it". Once again, it clear that it's very important for evolutionists to come up with a 'natural' explanation for the existence of everything. What do you think 'nature' is? I think it takes more "faith" to believe that we were created from dust rather than evolving from primates. Not really; if you believe your many times greatgrandfather was an ape then you have more faith in your beliefs than I. I have the Bible as a foundation for my beliefs; what do you have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botz Posted October 4, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 76 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,492 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 191 Days Won: 18 Joined: 03/29/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted October 4, 2009 Just because a 'fundie' like me believes G-d created us and the earth we live on, does not mean that we oppose science, or don't look into things to understand how they function from a scientific view-point...it just means that we are happy to acknowledge the evidence provided through the biblical account, and do not accept the scientific explanations that are in opposition to what we perceive as true...and having come from a source that we believe is beyond question. Right so you don't look into things to understand how they function from a scientific view-point if it contradicts your view of scripture. I think that was pretty much the gist of his post. Not so....I look into things all the time, and I have read a fair bit of science that contradicts what I believe...and I am always questioning my own understanding of what the bible says and how I have perceived it...but I do not jump on the band-wagon when some scientist claims to have disproved a portion of Scripture through new discoveries...I usually wait for the dust to settle though. Evolution in its fullest sense is not a fact...but is nearer a religious/scientific faith that seeks to replace G-d with the myth of mans own brilliance, by supposedly demonstrating our total self-sufficiency through knowledge...and ultimately how through science/knowledge G-d has at last been relegated to a vaguely remembered fairy-tale. Evolution has nothing to do with replacing God, and everything to do with explaining the history of life. True, some evolutionary proponents make this debate into a clash of worldviews but at it's core evolution is a scientific theory based on explanations of physical evidence. You may disagree with that evidence, but that is what the theory is founded on nonetheless. I know that is what is claimed...but it has been used as a spring-board to demolish biblical foundational teaching, and been championed by some of the foremost Atheists of our time, whose agenda is glaringly obvious. Ahh...but to the evident consternation of ardent evolutionists...fundies still persist to believe in this mythical being, and talk about Jesus as if He was still around after two thousand years...and continue to dismiss the most advanced scientific theories by such great and learned scholars...when they don't even have the vaguest of ideas what these theories and hypotheses entail...just plain ignorance and brain-washing I guess. I honestly don't think 99.9% of "evolutionists" care that "fundies" believe that they are saved through faith in Christ, what they don't like is that you out-right dismiss whatever scientific theory you don't care for. When I was a roofer it would be pretty upsetting if a janitor walked up to the homeowner and started telling him that my roof was built wrong and that it would leak. Why? Because I was a roofer, I worked for years learning my trade, and I was really good at my job. Now imagine this janitor working to try and convince that homeowner that I was building a leaky roof not because of any principle of construction or runoff dynamics but because the roof contradicted his personal opinions about roofing. In the same way scientists get a little upset when laymen stroll up and start telling the public that they are all lying incompetents because their theories contradict your opinions about the Bible. I could speak to the worlds foremost intelligent being, and be in awe at the magnitude of his knowledge...but at the end of the day if he did not acknowledge G-d he is ultimately considered a fool by biblical standards....I haven't discovered the Bible to be wrong on anything...but science fluctuates all the time, and what once was deemed true some years ago is now deemed to be false in the light of better information. The thing is a layman can make a claim based on faith, that is not rooted in scientific reasoning, and is castigated because he is not of the scientific fraternity and his opinions are therefore irrelevant to them...for example belief in a world-wide flood...evolutionary based science would say there is no evidence, and therefore it is untrue and the bible cannot be relied upon....so the layman such as 'I' says...'I believe it is completely true, and your evidence must be wrong'...it is a choice of belief, and how far one trusts the evidence presented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leoxiii Posted October 4, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 512 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/30/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/25/1955 Share Posted October 4, 2009 The thing is a layman can make a claim based on faith, that is not rooted in scientific reasoning, and is castigated because he is not of the scientific fraternity and his opinions are therefore irrelevant to them...for example belief in a world-wide flood...evolutionary based science would say there is no evidence, and therefore it is untrue and the bible cannot be relied upon....so the layman such as 'I' says...'I believe it is completely true, and your evidence must be wrong'...it is a choice of belief, and how far one trusts the evidence presented. Marine fossils on mountains is pretty good evidence for a world-wide flood of Biblical proportions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick-Parker Posted October 4, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 200 Topics Per Day: 0.23 Content Count: 4,271 Content Per Day: 4.95 Reputation: 1,855 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/17/2021 Status: Offline Birthday: 06/03/1955 Share Posted October 4, 2009 I honestly don't think 99.9% of "evolutionists" care that "fundies" believe that they are saved through faith in Christ, what they don't like is that you out-right dismiss whatever scientific theory you don't care for. When I was a roofer it would be pretty upsetting if a janitor walked up to the homeowner and started telling him that my roof was built wrong and that it would leak. Why? Because I was a roofer, I worked for years learning my trade, and I was really good at my job. Now imagine this janitor working to try and convince that homeowner that I was building a leaky roof not because of any principle of construction or runoff dynamics but because the roof contradicted his personal opinions about roofing. In the same way scientists get a little upset when laymen stroll up and start telling the public that they are all lying incompetents because their theories contradict your opinions about the Bible. You mean like evolutionists do in the schools, not letting ID to be taught as an equal to evolution and letting the student decide which they believe to be correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Gareth Posted October 4, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 73 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 540 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/11/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/26/1980 Author Share Posted October 4, 2009 I honestly don't think 99.9% of "evolutionists" care that "fundies" believe that they are saved through faith in Christ, what they don't like is that you out-right dismiss whatever scientific theory you don't care for. When I was a roofer it would be pretty upsetting if a janitor walked up to the homeowner and started telling him that my roof was built wrong and that it would leak. Why? Because I was a roofer, I worked for years learning my trade, and I was really good at my job. Now imagine this janitor working to try and convince that homeowner that I was building a leaky roof not because of any principle of construction or runoff dynamics but because the roof contradicted his personal opinions about roofing. In the same way scientists get a little upset when laymen stroll up and start telling the public that they are all lying incompetents because their theories contradict your opinions about the Bible. But there are in fact scientific evidences that support ID. To say that all ID proponents go by is that the bible said evolution is wrong is misleading, many ID proponents are agnostic and do not support any religion, simply ID. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted October 4, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.89 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted October 4, 2009 So IL, you don't even believe in the ID form of evolution? I really wish you would explain how you interpret Gen 1-11 *scratches head*. Are you supporting the local flood theory, or no flood at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walksonlegs Posted October 4, 2009 Group: Nonbeliever Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 18 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/22/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted October 4, 2009 Evolution in its fullest sense is not a fact...but is nearer a religious/scientific faith that seeks to replace G-d with the myth of mans own brilliance, by supposedly demonstrating our total self-sufficiency through knowledge...and ultimately how through science/knowledge G-d has at last been relegated to a vaguely remembered fairy-tale You have a right to believe that we are the offspring of 2 people who lived for 930 years, in which one was born from a rib who talked to snakes. I have the right to seek a natural explanation rather than believe in facts that are incongruous to reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted October 4, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.10 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted October 4, 2009 Evolution in its fullest sense is not a fact...but is nearer a religious/scientific faith that seeks to replace G-d with the myth of mans own brilliance, by supposedly demonstrating our total self-sufficiency through knowledge...and ultimately how through science/knowledge G-d has at last been relegated to a vaguely remembered fairy-tale You have a right to believe that we are the offspring of 2 people who lived for 930 years, in which one was born from a rib who talked to snakes. I have the right to seek a natural explanation rather than believe in facts that are incongruous to reality. So you find the explanation that we're all descended from one celled creatures, that sprang to life from nothing, more plausible??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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