CSLewis Posted November 15, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 828 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/28/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/28/1980 Share Posted November 15, 2009 But to rely on the Bible is to rely on interpretters, and those who canonized the Bible. Those men relied on tradition and reason in selecting the books and epistles that they did. Even before the precious bible was canonized certain distinct patterns of worship and liturgy emerged. You accept sola scriptura but really no such animal exists. Because scripture and tradition are interwoven. And we use reason to understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Did not His divinity demand a body that at no time was under the dominion of the devil? the answer to the question is "No." So, it is possible, in your theology, that the human nature of Jesus could at some point have been under the dominion of the devil? No, it is not possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 But to rely on the Bible is to rely on interpretters, and those who canonized the Bible. Those men relied on tradition and reason in selecting the books and epistles that they did. Even before the precious bible was canonized certain distinct patterns of worship and liturgy emerged. You accept sola scriptura but really no such animal exists. Because scripture and tradition are interwoven. And we use reason to understand it. Tradition originates from men. The Bible originates from God and is proven to be the accurate transmission of God's words. You can rely on men. I, however, am a Christian and Christians relly on the infallible, inerrant Word of God. Traditions are not equivalent to the Word of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted November 15, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.92 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Did not His divinity demand a body that at no time was under the dominion of the devil? the answer to the question is "No." So, it is possible, in your theology, that the human nature of Jesus could at some point have been under the dominion of the devil? No, it is not possible. This debate is silly. The Bible does not go into the mechanics - the science, if you will - of Jesus' incarnation. Actually, the Bible doesn't go into the mechanics of any miracle. For that matter, science can't translate miracles into science. All that matters is that Jesus was the perfect Lamb of God. In the OT, when an animal was inspected for sacrifice, only the animal was inspected. The mother of the animal was never inspected for perfection. There is not saying a perfect lamb had to come from an unblemished mother. All that mattered was that the lamb itself was unblemished. And really, if Jesus required a sinless mother in order for Himself to be sinless - that really cheapens who He is And it makes the temptation in the wilderness rather pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted November 15, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.20 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted November 15, 2009 But to rely on the Bible is to rely on interpretters, and those who canonized the Bible. Those men relied on tradition and reason in selecting the books and epistles that they did. Even before the precious bible was canonized certain distinct patterns of worship and liturgy emerged. You accept sola scriptura but really no such animal exists. Because scripture and tradition are interwoven. And we use reason to understand it. Tradition originates from men. The Bible originates from God and is proven to be the accurate transmission of God's words. You can rely on men. I, however, am a Christian and Christians relly on the infallible, inerrant Word of God. Traditions are not equivalent to the Word of God. The major problem with tradition is the further you get from the original, the more polluted it becomes. Ever play that silly game in school where you whisper a secret in the ear of a person on one side of the room and when it reaches the other side, have them compare it to the original message? Same goes with tradition of the church. Teh further we get from the first church, the more the traditions change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted November 15, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Indeed the final authority is Holy scripture. But also around this scripture is doctrine and the people God has helped appoint as leaders and teachers of this doctrine. Doctrine protects scripture and guides us through the ages. The danger of course is changing and shifting doctrine, we should always be on guard for this. I also do not agree that we all can or should form our own personal doctrines. The Christian scriptural faith does have objective truths, not open to personal interpretation. This is the value of the Christian Creeds. Mormons, JW's, Pentecostals, Methodists and Prespytarians all claim the bible alone, yet they all disagree on major issues some disagree so far as to be in heresy, so no we must have the protection of doctrine. We all stand at some level on the shoulders of the saints that have come before us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Indeed the final authority is Holy scripture. The Christian scriptural faith does have objective truths, not open to personal interpretation. This is the value of the Christian Creeds. The Creeds are worthless, imo. They change the truth of God into doctrines of men. They make the simple overly complicated. Give me the Word anyday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leoxiii Posted November 15, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 512 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/30/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/25/1955 Author Share Posted November 15, 2009 Tradition originates from men. Like the tradition of which Books belong in the Bible? 2 Thessalonians 2:14 Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leoxiii Posted November 15, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 512 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/30/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/25/1955 Author Share Posted November 15, 2009 So, it is possible, in your theology, that the human nature of Jesus could at some point have been under the dominion of the devil? No, it is not possible. Then, how did Jesus take His human nature from the sinful Mary whilst never having that same human nature under the dominion of the devil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted November 15, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.20 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted November 15, 2009 Indeed the final authority is Holy scripture. But also around this scripture is doctrine and the people God has helped appoint as leaders and teachers of this doctrine. Doctrine protects scripture and guides us through the ages. The danger of course is changing and shifting doctrine, we should always be on guard for this. I also do not agree that we all can or should form our own personal doctrines. The Christian scriptural faith does have objective truths, not open to personal interpretation. This is the value of the Christian Creeds. All true Christians believe in the basis of the bible, but through time, have diverged into denominations by the very doctrines you claim protect scripture. Maybe I am not understanding what you are saying, but I believe that is why we have the Holy Spirit to personally guide us. Ever sit in a church that is teaching their doctrine and little nudges start in your spirit? As you pay closer attention, scripture starts to come to your memory causing you to question what is being said? Help me understand what you are trying to say better. Mormons, JW's, Pentecostals, Methodists and Prespytarians all claim the bible alone, yet they all disagree on major issues some disagree so far as to be in heresy, so no we must have the protection of doctrine. We all stand at some level on the shoulders of the saints that have come before us. Mormons changed scripture and have their own translation of the bible, they also depend on the writings of Joseph Smith. The JW'a also have their own bible changed to their doctrine, also depending highly on the Watchtower. I believe you will also find every single denomination following some form of tradition. I know of no denomination today that does not have some sort of tradition they follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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