JCMS Posted November 23, 2009 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 48 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/21/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/14/1984 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Older article, but interesting nonetheless. ...I have to question *how* a 17 year veteran preacher can deconvert into an athiest over the course of 4-5 years. That's just mind-boggling for me. http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2004/nov/13/f...her_deconverts/ Don't talk to Dan Barker about God, Jesus or the Bible. He doesn't believe in any of them. It's kind of surprising for a man who maintained a touring, Christian musical ministry for 17 years, including eight years of full-time, cross-country evangelism. But Barker, 55 -- and an atheist since 1984 -- says his story is not all that unusual. "It's very common, (but) you just don't hear about it. I have about 25 stories of other clergy who have lost their faith and are now atheist or agnostic. They have to keep preaching, because that's what they do. It would shatter their world," he says. Barker, author of the 1992 autobiography "Losing Faith in Faith: From Preacher to Atheist," will speak Wednesday at Kansas University about his "de-conversion" from evangelical Christianity to non-believer and the issue of separation of church and state. His talk is sponsored by the Society of Open-Minded Atheists and Agnostics, a KU student group. Barker is also co-president of the Freedom From Religion Foundation, a non-profit organization based in Madison, Wis. "We wanted to have kind of a substantial event in the fall this year to spread awareness of our group. We wanted to do something that would be a little special," says Stephanie Kirmer, 20, a junior from Topeka and past president of the student group. "Dan (Barker) comes from such a fascinating and unique background, we thought this would spike interest in the community. It definitely has." Denied funding The pastor-turned-atheist's upcoming visit has sparked a degree of controversy at KU. The group's request for $1,250 in funding from the Student Senate to help pay for Barker's campus appearance was recently rejected, says Andrew Stangl, 19, president of the Society of Open-Minded Atheists and Agnostics. "The bottom line is they decided SOMA is a religious organization seeking money to fund a religious speaker. In the spirit of keeping neutrality in those matters, they decided it would be inappropriate to give us the money we had requested," Stangl says. The group plans to pay for Barker's appearance using $200 that the Senate gives to student organizations that are officially registered with KU, plus some of the group's own savings. Barker has declined his usual honorarium and is only receiving money for his travel expenses, according to Stangl. "He's been so unbelievably awesome in dealing with this," Stangl said. "He's just an incredible individual." Human reason, kindness Barker's falling away from his Christian faith was a gradual process that lasted four to five years. He publicly announced his atheism in 1984. "It's like having a large debt canceled -- 'Wow, this is great.' There's no more fear of hell or judgment, no more pessimism about human nature, no more guilt about thinking for yourself," he says. In addition to being the author of four books about "freethought" (a term sometimes used to describe atheism and agnosticism), Barker has also written many songs about this subject. Among their titles are: "Friendly, Neighborhood Atheist," "You Can't Win with Original Sin" and "God-Less America." Barker says that since becoming an atheist, nothing has taken the place of Christianity in his life. "Nothing has to. You can live a really good life without a former belief system or religion," Barker says. "In my case, I do have -- instead of a former faith -- an extreme confidence in human reason and in kindness. Because what else is there?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HIS girl Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 One of Billy Graham's early preaching partners (forgotten his name) also became an atheist. He basically entertained doubt and let them manifest unto unbelief.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyguy Posted November 23, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 373 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 3,331 Content Per Day: 0.59 Reputation: 71 Days Won: 10 Joined: 10/15/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/24/1965 Share Posted November 23, 2009 And lots of former atheists become Christians. It really is nothing new. It all depends on how grounded you are in your position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyguy Posted November 23, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 373 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 3,331 Content Per Day: 0.59 Reputation: 71 Days Won: 10 Joined: 10/15/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/24/1965 Share Posted November 23, 2009 One of Billy Graham's early preaching partners (forgotten his name) also became an atheist. His name was Charles Templeton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahDavid Posted November 23, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 320 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 3,166 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted November 23, 2009 blessings, sad to say many in the mainstream area of Christian ministry are not saved and that is reflected in the move away from Biblical teaching we are seeing in the mainline denominations and/or ministries. in my personal experience i know a mainline ordained minister who holds a doctorate in theology, still preaches, still marries and has funerals etc but does not believe in the Lord or the Bible. i do not think it is a matter of deconversion as much as no real coversion to begin with. no solid soil (real belief) in which the seed of faith will grow. love your sister in Christ, Rebekah David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 it is sad that there are those who become apostate. there are a lot of people who believe that people like dan barker and charles templeton were never saved in the first place. that makes no sense really, because to be saved, one simply has to believe with their heart and confess with their mouth that Jesus is Lord and that God raised Him from the dead. i've known people in real life who were true christians, and yet later in life turned their back on God, forfeiting the gift of salvation they had once accepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyguy Posted November 23, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 373 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 3,331 Content Per Day: 0.59 Reputation: 71 Days Won: 10 Joined: 10/15/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/24/1965 Share Posted November 23, 2009 it is sad that there are those who become apostate. there are a lot of people who believe that people like dan barker and charles templeton were never saved in the first place. that makes no sense really, because to be saved, one simply has to believe with their heart and confess with their mouth that Jesus is Lord and that God raised Him from the dead. i've known people in real life who were true christians, and yet later in life turned their back on God, forfeiting the gift of salvation they had once accepted. Well, to be fair, only God knows if their belief and confessions of faith were genuine. I actually believe there are quite a fewTelevangelsts that don't actually believe and are only in it for the money. Like Marjoe Gortner. Read about that fellow sometime. It'll break your heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 oh i'm sure there are a lot of frauds out there who are in it for the money. but i'm equally sure that there are many who have become apostate along the way. the bible talks extensively about people who become apostate... it really does happen. people who knew the Lord, loved the Lord, and then exchanged the truth for a lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyguy Posted November 23, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 373 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 3,331 Content Per Day: 0.59 Reputation: 71 Days Won: 10 Joined: 10/15/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/24/1965 Share Posted November 23, 2009 oh i'm sure there are a lot of frauds out there who are in it for the money. but i'm equally sure that there are many who have become apostate along the way. the bible talks extensively about people who become apostate... it really does happen. people who knew the Lord, loved the Lord, and then exchanged the truth for a lie. I'm more of the camp that believes this passage of Scripture applies: "They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." 1 John 2:19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 that certainly applies to people like that marjoe person you mentioned. do you deny that apostasy happens among individuals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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