rollinTHUNDER Posted August 13, 2002 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 83 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,985 Content Per Day: 0.37 Reputation: 433 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/23/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 13, 2002 I have a question too, what if there is no pre-trib rapture??? 2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 Thessalonians 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 2 Thessalonians 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 2 Thessalonians 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: This seems to say that the AC will be revealed and we will know who he is and that when Christ does come, the AC is destroyed. That puts the Lord's coming at the end of the trib, not the beginning. It also states that the day of Christ's coming will not come until the man of sin is revealed. Could Christians now living be the saints of the tribulation? Looks that way to me. Hi Levi, I didn't forget about you, but I'm out of time right now. I will try to answer yours tonight. Good question too. See you then!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollinTHUNDER Posted August 14, 2002 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 83 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,985 Content Per Day: 0.37 Reputation: 433 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/23/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 14, 2002 I have a question too, what if there is no pre-trib rapture??? This seems to say that the AC will be revealed and we will know who he is and that when Christ does come, the AC is destroyed. That puts the Lord's coming at the end of the trib, not the beginning. It also states that the day of Christ's coming will not come until the man of sin is revealed. Could Christians now living be the saints of the tribulation? Looks that way to me. Hi Levi, This is a good question that I believe many trip over. I believe these verses are talking about the second coming of our Lord, not the rapture. This will be the final event in the tribulation. Also, when this event happens, we will be gathered and return with the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. This is not talking about the rapture. The rapture will come like a thief in the night, and also, the anti-christ will not be destroyed by the coming of the rapture, but rather he will be given power to overcome the saints in the tribulation, the ones who will be left behind. Since the second coming will be the last event, all other things in the tribulation must come before it, including the rapture, the falling away(apostate church), the revealing of the anti-christ, the mark of the beast and the abomination that causes desolation. The anti-christ will not be revealed until He who holds him back is taken out of the way, (2 Thes. 2: 8-9). I believe this will happen when the rapture occurs, in the twinkling of an eye. I believe the one who is holding him back is none other than the Holy Spirit that is living in all true believers. This anti-christ doesn't have a chance until we are removed. Greater is He who is in us, than he who is in the world. Satan knows he would be defeated if he tried to do it now. With the Holy Spirit living in us, combined with our ability to pray, Satan is powerless to pull this off. I believe the rapture must happen before man of lawlessness can be revealed, otherwise he won't stand a chance against us, not with the Holy Spirit in us. After the rapture, the anti-christ will overcome the tribulation saints. They will refuse to take his mark and they will become martyrs. All these things must happen before the second coming of our Lord to the earth. Also, in the rapture, the Lord will not come to the earth. We will meet Him in the clouds. I also believe the second coming is also known as the day of the Lord. It will become official when He puts all enemies under His feet, and His feet touch down on the Mount of Olives. This day will last one thousand years. For more on this, read my thread, "MY DELIVERER IS COMIN'!!". I hope this helps you, and I also hope I didn't misunderstand your question. Cheers!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorie Eikenbary Posted August 14, 2002 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 69 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/04/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/26/1968 Share Posted August 14, 2002 Hey Rollin Thunder~ Your reply to the question from Levi made me think of another question for you. (I pray I'm not annoying you with so many questions) :sarcasm: Anyway~ when you were describing the rapture and then the man of lawlessness being reavealed because the Holy Spirit being removed as a result of the rapture. Okay~ this may be a silly question but, oh well. When the rapture occurs, obviously our bodies are transformed instantly and we are taken up to be with our Lord ~Hallelujah!!!!!!! This causes the Holy Spirit to be absent from the earth because of the saints' absence.....now what I don't understand is........when some of the people left behind realize the truth and receive Christ during the tribulation (ie:Tribulation Saints) Doesn't that bring the Holy Spirit back to the earth again? How is it that it( the Holy Spirit) restrains the A.C. before the rapture but not after? I have always wondered what the deal was with that. Thanks and I will be looking forward to your opinion. Love in Christ~Lorie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollinTHUNDER Posted August 15, 2002 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 83 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,985 Content Per Day: 0.37 Reputation: 433 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/23/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 15, 2002 Hey Rollin Thunder~ Your reply to the question from Levi made me think of another question for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatsitmean Posted August 15, 2002 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 31 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 881 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/16/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted August 15, 2002 Hi rollinTHUNDER, I am in agreement with most of your eschatology so I would like to present another possibility to your view about the Holy Spirit during the tribulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollinTHUNDER Posted August 16, 2002 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 83 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,985 Content Per Day: 0.37 Reputation: 433 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/23/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 16, 2002 Hello whatsitmean, I haven't heard from you in a while. Glad to see you are still watching and waiting!! I think you made some great points in your previous post, except I wouldn't want to say that all the foolish virgins are God haters now, but there probably are some of those. I think there will also be some left behind that do love God, but they refused to forgive someone that hurt them in the past. Some will just be lazy christians, and others will get caught in the backslidden state. Some don't even believe yet and maybe others haven't even heard the gospel yet. The twelve tribes of 144,000 will be preaching in those days, many will be saved because of them too. I agree with the point you made about us being tested right now, and that it is tougher. These are the ones who will be first in the kingdom, not because they are better than the others, but because they made the choice to serve Him on their own, without having the gun to their heads. This shows their love for Him. Jesus said, "If you love me you will obey me." Jesus will be coming for a bride that loves Him. He who has perfect vision is said to have 20/20 vision. Read Matt. 20: 20-28 and let the reader understand. Also read Matt. 19: 29-30. Thanks for your input whatsitmean. I sure could have used some when I was writing "A MYSTERY : The Rapture and the Parable of the Ten Virgins". I didn't think I would ever get finished with that one. I was starting to think I was swimming in a bottomless pit, but a good bottomless pit though!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatsitmean Posted August 16, 2002 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 31 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 881 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/16/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted August 16, 2002 I was mostly referring to all those who find them selves caught in the tribulation, which would include much more than the five foolish virgins of the parable. I describe the foolish virgins as camp followers as compared to soldiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollinTHUNDER Posted August 18, 2002 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 83 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,985 Content Per Day: 0.37 Reputation: 433 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/23/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 18, 2002 The five foolish virgins were told, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollinTHUNDER Posted August 18, 2002 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 83 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,985 Content Per Day: 0.37 Reputation: 433 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/23/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 18, 2002 OOPS! We are getting off the topic. Oh No - I think we're on the wrong thread :biggrin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollinTHUNDER Posted September 12, 2002 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 83 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,985 Content Per Day: 0.37 Reputation: 433 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/23/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 12, 2002 Not to jump too far ahead, but after the first beast, another will arise having two horns like a lamb, but he speaks like a Dragon. Rev. 13: 11. Then all the world would need would be a false prophet. May I suggest a wayward Pope for that position?? http://euobserver.com/index.phtml?sid=9&aid=7511 10.09.2002 - 20:48 CET Plans of new EU with President and Prime Minister The dream of Italian prime minister Berlusconi is to have a new Treaty of Rome signed in 2003 - 46 years after the Rome Treaty which created the European Communities was signed. (Photo: EU Commission) The European conservative leaders conceive that the power in the future European Union could be shared between an EU president in charge of external relations and the president of the European Commission who would act as a Prime Minister, sources told EUobserver after the informal summit of conservative leaders in Sardinia, on Monday. This structure, which emulates the French institutional system, could emanate as a compromise between supporters of a strong EU president, elected by the leaders of EU states, and a strong president of the Commission. Agreement on four out of five chapters Seven Christian democrat prime ministers met on Monday in Sardinia, at Silvio Berlusconi's residence, to try to near their views on reforms of the European Union, with the aim of achieving a common position at the European People's Party Congress in Estoril, mid-October. The chairman of the EPP, Wilfried Martens, told e thEUobserver the seven prime ministers and other leading conservative politicians have found agreement on four out of the five chapters of the document they intend to adopt in Estoril, but have to work out an accord on the institutional set-up. Two presidents However, sources told the EUobserver the conservative leaders made progress towards reaching a compromise also on institutional reforms. A rift has opened up pitting the Spanish Prime Minister, Jos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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