BobTriez Posted July 24, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,478 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/23/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/11/1972 Share Posted July 24, 2004 Thanks Bob-you speak "with grace"(Col. 4:6). My point was to emphasize what the post asked:"What is repentance", and to say, in no uncertain terms, that we must not confuse what this term means in relation to justification. Yes, repentance can, and actually does, sometimes refer to "turning from sins", but this context is always in relation to SANCTIFICATION, not justification. We must make 1 Cor. 15:1-4 simple and clear, and stress, as it is written: "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." Romans 4:5 In Christ, John Whalen Yep...I do agree John. Sanctification is a life long process that is ONLY perfected by God. Justification is a one time event - the day we become clean in the eyes of God..... Sorry, you & I posted at the same time....my last very post was for Jedi ( about sinless perfection )....didn't want ya thinking I was refering to your statements. God bless, Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi4Yahweh Posted July 24, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,955 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 636 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/12/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted July 24, 2004 To Jedi - Hmmmm....not sure I want to derail this thread into a "sinless pefection doctrine" debate. I believe you are reading those verses out of context and all wrong....we cannot live sin free on earth as humans....however, let's not derail Adstars' thread ? If you want to debate "Sinless Perfection", I would ask you to start a new thread on it....but do not expect me to participate. I've all but wore myself out on that issue before - never-the-less you are welcome to start a new topic on iy.....the Bible speaks for itself.....we are in need of a Saviour. Period. To embrace Sinless Perfection NEGATES the need to repent. Serving Him, Bob No I am right on subject. Repentance which means to stop sinning. But you say we are to continue in sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmwhalen Posted July 24, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 80 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 997 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted July 24, 2004 Jedi4Yahweh: "A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject" Titus 3:10 Sir, I refuse to comment on your posts. You fail to "rightly divide the word of truth"(2 Tim. 2:15), you preach "another gospel", and your posts continually preach a performance-based salvation system. See you at the judgement seat of Christ(maybe). In Christ, John Whalen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobTriez Posted July 25, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,478 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/23/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/11/1972 Share Posted July 25, 2004 But you say we are to continue in sin. When ? Where ? When did I ever say or even imply that we ( as you put it ) are to continue in sin ? We will continue to sin.....that doesn't mean we should or are to as you state. We should not sin....agreed. We, however will continue sinning/being sinful until our sanctification is complete. That is an accomplishment of God & God alone....lest any man should boast....and our sanctification will not be complete while we are in the flesh.....ergo, we will continue to sin. Not an excuse for it, but we will..... Please, do point out where I said we should ( or are to ) continue in sin if I said this....which I did not - BUT, if by an accident I did state this, I'd like to correct my mistake as that is inaccurate. God bless, Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adstar Posted July 25, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,399 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,307 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/01/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 25, 2004 Short and sweet: Godly sorrow that leads to change at a heart level. Hello Catsmeow :il: I posted a reply to this post last night but it must have been lost in transit somewhere Oh well if at first you don't succeed try and try again " at a heart level." Now if i can remember how i posed the question last night LOL its always best to strike when the iron is hot Now does a 100% change in ones heart produce a 100% change in Behavior? Or Does a 100% change in ones heart produce a 100% effort to change ones behavior? All praise The Ancient Of Days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi4Yahweh Posted July 25, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,955 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 636 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/12/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted July 25, 2004 Jedi4Yahweh: "A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adstar Posted July 25, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,399 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,307 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/01/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 25, 2004 Hello Jim The LORD GOD would have as know "early on" in His Word(in Genesis, "The Seed Plot" of the Bible) what "repent" means= The biblical principal of the "law of first mention". The LORD God repented as shown below. These definitions "miss the mark". I posted this previously-The Word of God tells us that repentance means "to change your mind". The context determines what you are "repenting from" or "changing your mind about". But it is not automatically TURNING FROM SIN, ADMITTING SINFUL BEHAVIOUR......or you are declaring that God is a sinner! I found your post really prompted me to think about the difference between the Word Repent and the Word Relent. I have had a discussion before about these two words being used in two different bible translations. In your post you gave many verses where God is said to have repented. I can see now how the definition of repent that you hold (that being "to change your mind".) could have made that discussion more successful. That Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adstar Posted July 25, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,399 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,307 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/01/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 25, 2004 Just a little post. I think we should look at ourselves and ask if we are trying our best to understand other peoples posts with the same effort we are trying to give others understanding of our thoughts? If the thoughts we hold are true then in the end they will shine through to those who embrace the love of the truth. Lets seek Gods Help in expressing the thoughts we have in they way He wants us to do it. This little post is Not directed at anyone in particular in this thread. I did not start this topic wanting it to be a discussion on salvation it was only an attempt to get under the layer of Christian jargon speak, to get people to talk using basic speech. Because there is no point in two people discussing something using the same word while not being aware that the other person has a different definition of that word. That Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmwhalen Posted July 25, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 80 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 997 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted July 25, 2004 Jedi writes: "You have no clue what that scipture means much less your use of taken it out of context. And I hope you not calling me heretic. Do you want to burn me at the stack too or maybe throw me to lions. I am a heretic because I tell people that they should live a holy life before God. And your a saint because you tell people that its ok to continue in sin. Go figure!" _____________________ My comment: Yes, you are a heretic judging by your posts, and not because you tell people to "live a holy life before God". No one would disagree with you when you say we should "live a holy life before God", BUT NOT AS A BASIS FOR OUR ACCEPTANCE by Him!-not as our basis for JUSTIFICATION. We live a holy life because we are sons, because we are justified, because we are saved, NOT TO BE SONS, NOT TO BE JUSTIFIED, NOT TO BE SAVED. Again, the Biblical order is SONSHIP, then SERVICE, not vica versa. Holy means "sanctified"=set aside for God's purpose. But God only uses those instruments that are His, and "saints" describes those who are already justified=His="in Christ". Paul calls the Corinthians, the most carnal, dirty, lustful group of believer SAINTS. You say "And your a saint because you tell people that its ok to continue in sin. Go figure!" No, you are a liar. I never told people that it is OK to sin. You make that charge to others also. That is a typical charge from a puffed-up, self righteous person such as yourself who compares himself to others as the standard for righteousness, instead of God's standard, which is 100% perfection. and this standard is found only in the Lord Jesus Christ. I am a saint because I have been justified by Believing 1 Cor. 15:1-4, and I have "the righteousness of God in him". You cannot condemn me-I have been justified. My motivation not to sin(my "walk") is fueled by what this great Saviour has already done for me, and is out of a sense of gratitude, not obligation-it is motivated by His love for me("For the love of Christ constraineth us"- 2 Cor. 5:14), not on how much I love Him. This is what grace teaches. You teach the law, which puts others in bondage. I will not allow you to do this unchallenged. "Do you want to burn me at the stack too or maybe throw me to lions." No, I will oppose you with all the strength the Lord provides me if you continue to "preach"(I again use that term loosely) any perversion of the gospel of Christ. I have no need to "throw you to the lions", for you will be cursed-read Galatians chapter one over and over. You, sir(and I use that term loosely)are perverting the gospel of Christ and preaching another gospel-you continue to say that one must "turn from their sins", "stop sinning".... to be justified. You have no clue as to what justification is, much less what sin is. Sin is not just "wrong doing", it is "wrong being"(that is the whole point of "all...come short of the glory of God"). You commit sins you do not even know you are committing. You do not understand that FORGIVENESS OF SINS(plural) IS NOT JUSTIFICATION. The LORD God does forgive SINS(plural), but He does not forgive SIN(singular)=who we are "in Adam"=the source of sin-sin must be JUDGED/CONDEMNED: "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh...." Romans 8:3 This was accomplished by the Lord Jesus Christ at Calvary by the principles of IDENTIFICATION and SUBSTITUTION. Sins(plural) were forgiven, but sin(singular) was not-it was judged, the Lord Jesus Christ bearing that judgement. You error by thinking that "stop sinning"=acts of commission "solves the sin issue". You could "stop sinning" all the rest of your life(which in your self righteous PRIDE you refuse to admit you cannot do anyways), and that would not allow you in the presence of our Holy God. The biblical requirement is not just forgiveness=a pardon for an offence, but JUSTIFICATION=a legal declaration of righteousness, and includes not just "stop doing what is wrong", but also DOING EVERYTHING THAT IS RIGHT. And this is "the righteousness of God in him"(2 Cor. 5:21), the "righteousness of God"(Romans 1:17), " righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe"(Romans 3:22), " And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith"(Philippians 3:9). You refuse to listen to God when He tells you to SHUT UP in Romans 3;18 AND ADMIT YOUR GUILT. You refuse to understand that the Lord Jesus Christ died for the UNGODLY and SINNERS=no fixing up. In Christ and with Christ, John Whalen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adstar Posted July 25, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,399 Content Per Day: 0.43 Reputation: 1,307 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/01/2002 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 25, 2004 Bob this is just how i am reading your points. Of course we are just humans using a human language So a lot of misunderstandings can rear their ugly heads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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