THE PROPHETIC MOVEMENT FAILING GOD??

[Guest linda kappy]

andrew, first of all forgive me for not paragraphinig these replys but I am still tryying to figure out this pc. its all new to. can you belive it? It took me long enough but all in GOds time.!! AS for your your profound insight how right your on. So many ministrys and pastors are preaching and excusing sinful behavior. One should not condemn the sinner but condemn the sin. When theres the breakdown in the chuch and we allow such thing to go on thats all tha enemy needs to twists Gods word of truth even further and then as that scripture refers to if my people are not careful I shall spit them out. Pray for or leaders in the church Linda shalom

[Arthur Durnan]

So the bottom line in all this conflab about false teachings, the important thing to remember is that GOD'S SETTLED WORD in all its clarity defeats the whims and machinations of man by at least a trillion to one. Herbert W. & Garner T. and all the other "Armstrongs" can't hold a candle to the plain, unvarnished declarations of the authoritative Word of God, the Holy Bible. AMEN INDEED!

Thank You, Lord Jesus!

BURY KERRY! Keep America Strong.

Four More Years For President George Bush!

GOD BLESS THE USA!

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[Guest idied2]

Herbert W. & Garner T. and all the other "Armstrongs" can't hold a candle to the plain, unvarnished declarations of the authoritative Word of God, the Holy Bible. AMEN INDEED!

andrew,

Who are these people?

In CHRIST JESUS :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

[Arthur Durnan]

They are indeed false prophets who make a living mishandling & wresting the Scriptures to their own destruction....IE, a little bit of Ellen Gould Harmon White & SDA; a little bit of chopped-up Revelation prophecy; a little bit of "Jehovah's False Witnesses" and Charles Taze Russell's 'soul-sleep', etc, and a smidgeon of Bible truth here and there, which, one can understand can be quite pervasive & harmful as when one takes a glass of fresh water & adds only a drop of strychnine! One is indubitably dead if one pursues such a dangerous course of action.

So Herbert W. Armstrong is dead. Garner ted had his own troubles back in Texas. And now the family line continues with the false Herbert W. line back again and being spouted as Gospel truth. And since people are so fickle and since people tend to fall for anything especially in the field of religion, the false prophets roll on - and continue to confuse the people of God.

JESUS STILL SAVES THOUGH! John 5:24.

GOD BLESS AMERICA!

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[Guest yod]

I think it is Armstrong. I know his son, old Garner Ted Armstrong teaches against going to Heaven. Comes from the "Worldwide Church of God" cult. That may be who you are referring to Neb, or maybe someone else? Armstrong wasnt the only one spreading such teachings.

The World Wide Church of God did something that I've never heard of before....

they repented.

They claimed all of their previous (cultic) teachings to be false and REPENTED. They deserve credit for having done this...and are no longer considered a cult.

Now if only the Baptists..... (just kidding)

[Dave123]

Sorry for jumping in late, but here's my two cents worth.

The giftof prophecy.

1 cor. 14:3 But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men.

Which is defined here.

Rev. 19:10And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

John 5:39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.

If you want to speak for God in predictions outside of scripture, then this is for you.

False Prophets and Empty Oracles

9 My heart within me is broken

Because of the prophets;

All my bones shake.

I am like a drunken man,

And like a man whom wine has overcome,

Because of the LORD,

And because of His holy words.

10For the land is full of adulterers;

For because of a curse the land mourns.

The pleasant places of the wilderness are dried up.

Their course of life is evil,

And their might is not right.

11"For both prophet and priest are profane;

Yes, in My house I have found their wickedness," says the LORD.

12"Therefore their way shall be to them

Like slippery ways;

In the darkness they shall be driven on

And fall in them;

For I will bring disaster on them,

The year of their punishment," says the LORD.

13"And I have seen folly in the prophets of Samaria:

They prophesied by Baal

And caused My people Israel to err.

14Also I have seen a horrible thing in the prophets of Jerusalem:

They commit adultery and walk in lies;

They also strengthen the hands of evildoers,

So that no one turns back from his wickedness.

All of them are like Sodom to Me,

And her inhabitants like Gomorrah.

15"Therefore thus says the LORD of hosts concerning the prophets:

"Behold, I will feed them with wormwood,

And make them drink the water of gall;

For from the prophets of Jerusalem

Profaneness has gone out into all the land."'

16Thus says the LORD of hosts:

"Do not listen to the words of the prophets who prophesy to you.

They make you worthless;

They speak a vision of their own heart,

Not from the mouth of the LORD.

17They continually say to those who despise Me,

"The LORD has said, "You shall have peace"';

And to everyone who walks according to the dictates of his own heart, they say,

"No evil shall come upon you."'

18For who has stood in the counsel of the LORD,

And has perceived and heard His word?

Who has marked His word and heard it?

19Behold, a whirlwind of the LORD has gone forth in fury--

A violent whirlwind!

It will fall violently on the head of the wicked.

20The anger of the LORD will not turn back

Until He has executed and performed the thoughts of His heart.

In the latter days you will understand it perfectly.

21"I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran.

I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.

22But if they had stood in My counsel,

And had caused My people to hear My words,

Then they would have turned them from their evil way

And from the evil of their doings.

23"Am I a God near at hand," says the LORD,

"And not a God afar off?

24Can anyone hide himself in secret places,

So I shall not see him?" says the LORD;

"Do I not fill heaven and earth?" says the LORD.

25"I have heard what the prophets have said who prophesy lies in My name, saying, "I have dreamed, I have dreamed!' 26How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Indeed they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart, 27who try to make My people forget My name by their dreams which everyone tells his neighbor, as their fathers forgot My name for Baal.

28"The prophet who has a dream, let him tell a dream;

And he who has My word, let him speak My word faithfully.

What is the chaff to the wheat?" says the LORD.

29"Is not My word like a fire?" says the LORD,

"And like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces?

30"Therefore behold, I am against the prophets," says the LORD, "who steal My words every one from his neighbor. 31Behold, I am against the prophets," says the LORD, "who use their tongues and say, "He says.' 32Behold, I am against those who prophesy false dreams," says the LORD, "and tell them, and cause My people to err by their lies and by their recklessness. Yet I did not send them or command them; therefore they shall not profit this people at all," says the LORD.

33"So when these people or the prophet or the priest ask you, saying, "What is the oracle of the LORD?' you shall then say to them, "What oracle?'[2] I will even forsake you," says the LORD. 34"And as for the prophet and the priest and the people who say, "The oracle of the LORD!' I will even punish that man and his house. 35Thus every one of you shall say to his neighbor, and every one to his brother, "What has the LORD answered?' and, "What has the LORD spoken?' 36And the oracle of the LORD you shall mention no more. For every man's word will be his oracle, for you have perverted the words of the living God, the LORD of hosts, our God. 37Thus you shall say to the prophet, "What has the LORD answered you?' and, "What has the LORD spoken?' 38But since you say, "The oracle of the LORD!' therefore thus says the LORD: "Because you say this word, "The oracle of the LORD!" and I have sent to you, saying, "Do not say, "The oracle of the LORD!"' 39therefore behold, I, even I, will utterly forget you and forsake you, and the city that I gave you and your fathers, and will cast you out of My presence. 40And I will bring an everlasting reproach upon you, and a perpetual shame, which shall not be forgotten."'

God bless

Dave

Edited September 29, 2004 by Dave123

[Guest yod]

Jump in as late as you want!

Thanks for your contribution....and welcome to the WBs :t:

[Scudbuddy]

Sorry for jumping in late, but here's my two cents worth.

The giftof prophecy.

1 cor. 14:3 But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men.

Which is defined here.

Rev. 19:10And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

John 5:39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.

If you want to speak for God in predictions outside of scripture, then this is for you.

False Prophets and Empty Oracles

9 My heart within me is broken

Because of the prophets;

All my bones shake.

I am like a drunken man,

And like a man whom wine has overcome,

Because of the LORD,

And because of His holy words.

10For the land is full of adulterers;

For because of a curse the land mourns.

The pleasant places of the wilderness are dried up.

Their course of life is evil,

And their might is not right.

11"For both prophet and priest are profane;

Yes, in My house I have found their wickedness," says the LORD.

12"Therefore their way shall be to them

Like slippery ways;

In the darkness they shall be driven on

And fall in them;

For I will bring disaster on them,

The year of their punishment," says the LORD.

13"And I have seen folly in the prophets of Samaria:

They prophesied by Baal

And caused My people Israel to err.

14Also I have seen a horrible thing in the prophets of Jerusalem:

They commit adultery and walk in lies;

They also strengthen the hands of evildoers,

So that no one turns back from his wickedness.

All of them are like Sodom to Me,

And her inhabitants like Gomorrah.

15"Therefore thus says the LORD of hosts concerning the prophets:

"Behold, I will feed them with wormwood,

And make them drink the water of gall;

For from the prophets of Jerusalem

Profaneness has gone out into all the land."'

16Thus says the LORD of hosts:

"Do not listen to the words of the prophets who prophesy to you.

They make you worthless;

They speak a vision of their own heart,

Not from the mouth of the LORD.

17They continually say to those who despise Me,

"The LORD has said, "You shall have peace"';

And to everyone who walks according to the dictates of his own heart, they say,

"No evil shall come upon you."'

18For who has stood in the counsel of the LORD,

And has perceived and heard His word?

Who has marked His word and heard it?

19Behold, a whirlwind of the LORD has gone forth in fury--

A violent whirlwind!

It will fall violently on the head of the wicked.

20The anger of the LORD will not turn back

Until He has executed and performed the thoughts of His heart.

In the latter days you will understand it perfectly.

21"I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran.

I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.

22But if they had stood in My counsel,

And had caused My people to hear My words,

Then they would have turned them from their evil way

And from the evil of their doings.

23"Am I a God near at hand," says the LORD,

"And not a God afar off?

24Can anyone hide himself in secret places,

So I shall not see him?" says the LORD;

"Do I not fill heaven and earth?" says the LORD.

25"I have heard what the prophets have said who prophesy lies in My name, saying, "I have dreamed, I have dreamed!' 26How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Indeed they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart, 27who try to make My people forget My name by their dreams which everyone tells his neighbor, as their fathers forgot My name for Baal.

28"The prophet who has a dream, let him tell a dream;

And he who has My word, let him speak My word faithfully.

What is the chaff to the wheat?" says the LORD.

29"Is not My word like a fire?" says the LORD,

"And like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces?

30"Therefore behold, I am against the prophets," says the LORD, "who steal My words every one from his neighbor. 31Behold, I am against the prophets," says the LORD, "who use their tongues and say, "He says.' 32Behold, I am against those who prophesy false dreams," says the LORD, "and tell them, and cause My people to err by their lies and by their recklessness. Yet I did not send them or command them; therefore they shall not profit this people at all," says the LORD.

33"So when these people or the prophet or the priest ask you, saying, "What is the oracle of the LORD?' you shall then say to them, "What oracle?'[2] I will even forsake you," says the LORD. 34"And as for the prophet and the priest and the people who say, "The oracle of the LORD!' I will even punish that man and his house. 35Thus every one of you shall say to his neighbor, and every one to his brother, "What has the LORD answered?' and, "What has the LORD spoken?' 36And the oracle of the LORD you shall mention no more. For every man's word will be his oracle, for you have perverted the words of the living God, the LORD of hosts, our God. 37Thus you shall say to the prophet, "What has the LORD answered you?' and, "What has the LORD spoken?' 38But since you say, "The oracle of the LORD!' therefore thus says the LORD: "Because you say this word, "The oracle of the LORD!" and I have sent to you, saying, "Do not say, "The oracle of the LORD!"' 39therefore behold, I, even I, will utterly forget you and forsake you, and the city that I gave you and your fathers, and will cast you out of My presence. 40And I will bring an everlasting reproach upon you, and a perpetual shame, which shall not be forgotten."'

God bless

Dave

So the gift of prophecy is not allowed unless you are saying verbatim exactly what the bible says. The problem with that is that there is a cultural relevance issue. If I tell my church through prophecy, "Either follow the Lord or the Chariots of Syria are coming and you will be enslaved to Ninevah, and your eyes are going to be poked out, and your sons and daughters will be ........."

You see, I can prophecy that all day long, but it will never make sense to a 21st century church. I do not believe Syria has that kind of reach anyways. But if I said "Follow hard after Christ, pant for him like a deer by the water, because His love for you is so great. You have ravished Him with one glance of your eyes, you have stolen His heart. Do not do the things of this world, do not entertain yourself with the gods of this world that would keep you seperated from Him. For the TV , the Theatre, the Nintendo games of this world can never satisfy your longings. Only your God who Loves you with an everlasting love can."

You see, your stance would never allow that. That is not totally in the scripture. TV, Nintendo, Theatre are all "Extra-scriptural." Thus in your eyes it would be false.

This is why Cessationist cannot really be giving advice about how to prophecy. Besides not believing in prophecy for today, you also have no practical insight into it. Now if you want to say I do not believe in prophecy altogether because it is unscriptural, so be it. That is Cessationism. I respect that, but will continue to prophecy.

[Dave123]

Hi scudbuddy

I never said I didn't believe in prophecy for today, I do, I do (lol).

I'm a cessationist, but I believe that only the sign gifts are gone.

Here's the problem, the word prophecy means to "speak forth" and that's all. It never carried the idea of predicting the future until well after 100 AD. Although God did use prophecy to reveal His written Word, the word prophecy simply means speaking forth. For the one gifted with this, it still does not carry the idea of predicting future events.

1 cor. 14:3 But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men.

Rev. 19:10And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

John 5:39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.

And God's written word is the testimony of Jesus Christ. Now, does that mean that when you tell people how Christ is working in your life that you have stepped out of bounce? No, not at all, but to tell people you are speaking for God as a prophet (adding new revelation) is another whole matter completely.

How do you know it was from God? If you get it wrong once, by biblical definition you are then a false prophet. If you misrepresent, God will not be very happy about it as Jer. 23 makes clear, we must not mock God.

It's important to know that God always stacked the odds against Himself so everyone would know it was Him when a prophecy (new revelation) was fulfilled and not doubt it at all. Many of the prophecies today like to take fifty fifty shots and say "if I hit half of them, I'm doing good". This mocks God.

The Greeks seek wisdom, the Jews require a sign, we preach Christ crucified, and when you preach Christ crucified you are prophesying.

God bless

Edited September 30, 2004 by Dave123

[Scudbuddy]

Hi scudbuddy

I never said I didn't believe in prophecy for today, I do, I do (lol).

I'm a cessationist, but I believe that only the sign gifts are gone.

Here's the problem, the word prophecy means to "speak forth" and that's all. It never carried the idea of predicting the future until well after 100 AD. Although God did use prophecy to reveal His written Word, the word prophecy simply means speaking forth. For the one gifted with this, it still does not carry the idea of predicting future events.

1 cor. 14:3 But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men.

Rev. 19:10And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

John 5:39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.

And God's written word is the testimony of Jesus Christ. Now, does that mean that when you tell people how Christ is working in your life that you have stepped out of bounce? No, not at all, but to tell people you are speaking for God as a prophet (adding new revelation) is another whole matter completely.

How do you know it was from God? If you get it wrong once, by biblical definition you are then a false prophet. If you misrepresent, God will not be very happy about it as Jer. 23 makes clear, we must not mock God.

It's important to know that God always stacked the odds against Himself so everyone would know it was Him when a prophecy (new revelation) was fulfilled and not doubt it at all. Many of the prophecies today like to take fifty fifty shots and say "if I hit half of them, I'm doing good". This mocks God.

The Greeks seek wisdom, the Jews require a sign, we preach Christ crucified, and when you preach Christ crucified you are prophesying.

God bless

I do agree with much of what you say, but the problem with your definition of prophecy is that a lot of predictions were in fact made. Before and after 100 AD

Alexander the Great when coming through Israel was met by the Jewish people who showed him what Daniel had to say about him from centuries before. Alexander read it, and left the Jews alone. Daniel was so accurate that up until the decade, most "logical and reasonable" scholars agreed that it was indeed written hundreds of years after it was actually written. It was too accurate for the average scholar. Not until this decade did overwhelming evidence come up that totally shattered that line of thought, and showed just how prophetic that book was.

Almost every OT book is full of prophecies, of which the vast majority has come true. The ones that haven't were reserved for the last days. I am still waiting on that one promise Joel made. "All flesh......." You will be faithful to email me with the prophecy God gives you. Right? And be sure to ask God who the winner of the Super Bowl will be. I could use the money! :x: