Is God ever surprised?

[Rick-Parker]

God can never be surprised because He is outside of time and has all knowledge of all events.

I think that we all have free will, but that God manipulates our personal environment and other people and events to ensure that His ultimate will is fulfilled. Just as He hardened Pharaoh's heart not to let the Jews leave Egypt. It was Pharaoh's choice not to let them go at first, then God just made it easier for him to refuse to let them go so that God could display His power and glory. He hardened Pharaoh's heart by manipulating his environment and his demon-possessed advisers.

Just as God has manipulated our environment to make sure that we learned about Christ and that we would make the choice to accept Him. Of our own free will. But His perfect will.

[tracks77]

Yes, the can of worms! Is it really our choice or is God controlling our thoughts and desires?

I'm not trying to stir the pot but, how can God control our desires when they are bad ones?

I've never studied the predestination belief so, that may disqualify me.

[jsca777]

If God is Omnipotent, Omnipresent, omniscient, can we conclude that God is never surprised and is everthing that happens here on earth and in heaven good or bad, in his will?

Evil is not part of His will, for God is opposed to evil. Of course God cannot be surprised because if anything surprised Him, He wouldn't be omniscient. If your surprised, there is something you weren't aware of. God is aware of everything.

[godrulz]

Calvinism, determinism, decretalism, compatibilism is not biblical. The Bible does portray God has personal, changing His mind at times, suprised at times, omnicompetent vs omnicausal, etc. Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Thought are some of the possibilities for understanding predestination, sovereignty, free will, etc.

Eternal now/simultaneity is philosophical, not biblical. Strong vs weak immutability, impassibility, etc. are also tradition, not truth.

We need to avoid determinism like the plague since it would make God responsible for heinous evil. A denial of libertarian free will undermines love, freedom, relationship, responsibility.

This is a big can of worms, but I would not be quick to assume all of the responses so far are accurate (e.g. God macro vs micromanages, for e.g.).

After 30 years of study, I believe Open Theism is a more biblical, coherent free will theism.

www.opentheism.info

[Guest Butero]

Calvinism, determinism, decretalism, compatibilism is not biblical. The Bible does portray God has personal, changing His mind at times, suprised at times, omnicompetent vs omnicausal, etc. Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Thought are some of the possibilities for understanding predestination, sovereignty, free will, etc.

Eternal now/simultaneity is philosophical, not biblical. Strong vs weak immutability, impassibility, etc. are also tradition, not truth.

We need to avoid determinism like the plague since it would make God responsible for heinous evil. A denial of libertarian free will undermines love, freedom, relationship, responsibility.

This is a big can of worms, but I would not be quick to assume all of the responses so far are accurate (e.g. God macro vs micromanages, for e.g.).

After 30 years of study, I believe Open Theism is a more biblical, coherent free will theism.

www.OVT

There is only one problem with what you are saying. God created Satan, and allows him to remain in the air space tempting people. Satan is evil, and God created him. He also allowed Satan to tempt Adam and Eve, and the Bible seems to imply that God knew Adam would sin. In that way, one can say that God is responsible for evil because he doesn't stop it. He could easily speak the devil out of existence anytime he pleases. I have studied this issue for years, and I don't think it is clear cut how much control God takes over what happens? I was certain we had absolute free will at one time, but the more I have read the Bible and the more I have thought about the way things are, the less certain I am.

[nebula]

If God is Omnipotent, Omnipresent, omniscient, can we conclude that God is never surprised and is everthing that happens here on earth and in heaven good or bad, in his will?

Well, we have to be careful with such questions because then we fall into the "Can God make a rock that is too heavy for Him to lift?" type of circular reasoning.

As Christians, we need to keep in mind the lesson of Job. The Lord never explained to Job what was going on, why it happened, and all that. But what was His answer? His answer was along the lines of: "Can you comprehend Me?"

And that's how I imagine the Lord looks down at this argument/discussion we have going -

Do you believe in your greatest logic and reasoning you can figure the Lord out?

[e lansing]

Calvinism, determinism, decretalism, compatibilism is not biblical. The Bible does portray God has personal, changing His mind at times, suprised at times, omnicompetent vs omnicausal, etc. Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Thought are some of the possibilities for understanding predestination, sovereignty, free will, etc.

Eternal now/simultaneity is philosophical, not biblical. Strong vs weak immutability, impassibility, etc. are also tradition, not truth.

We need to avoid determinism like the plague since it would make God responsible for heinous evil. A denial of libertarian free will undermines love, freedom, relationship, responsibility.

This is a big can of worms, but I would not be quick to assume all of the responses so far are accurate (e.g. God macro vs micromanages, for e.g.).

After 30 years of study, I believe Open Theism is a more biblical, coherent free will theism.

www.opentheism.info

How do you explain Job 1 and 2?

[e lansing]

If God is Omnipotent, Omnipresent, omniscient, can we conclude that God is never surprised and is everthing that happens here on earth and in heaven good or bad, in his will?

Well, we have to be careful with such questions because then we fall into the "Can God make a rock that is too heavy for Him to lift?" type of circular reasoning.

As Christians, we need to keep in mind the lesson of Job. The Lord never explained to Job what was going on, why it happened, and all that. But what was His answer? His answer was along the lines of: "Can you comprehend Me?"

And that's how I imagine the Lord looks down at this argument/discussion we have going -

Do you believe in your greatest logic and reasoning you can figure the Lord out?

Are you saying there is no answer to this question? God created us with intelligence, He knew we ask such questions. I do like your answer at any rate.

[e lansing]

If God is Omnipotent, Omnipresent, omniscient, can we conclude that God is never surprised and is everthing that happens here on earth and in heaven good or bad, in his will?

Evil is not part of His will, for God is opposed to evil. Of course God cannot be surprised because if anything surprised Him, He wouldn't be omniscient. If your surprised, there is something you weren't aware of. God is aware of everything.

I understand your answer, however, have you ever consider Job? God allowed Job to lose half of his family.

[nebula]

Are you saying there is no answer to this question?

There is, but not in the way you would like it to be.

You remember that verse about the wisdom of man being foolishness to God?

You see, we want an answer that packages the mind of God into a definable box. Do you really suppose we can do this?

God created us with intelligence, He knew we ask such questions.

Sure, but He sure does love to let us get puffed up so He can humble us. It's a great way to kill pride.

Seriously, if the answer to your question leads you to anywhere but in complete, total, jaw-dropping, on your face awe and wonder of GOD, you came to the wrong answer.