Socialism's not in the Bible

[Isaiah 6:8]

i give up!

if ya'll want to think the Church is doing a fine and dandy job of helping people, more power to you.

i have been in rich churches. i have been in poor churches. it seemed to me like the poor churches cared more for the soul than the rich churches did. maybe it's just me.

it doesn't matter how much money a church gives. like you said, neb, poverty reaches deeper than that. and statistics won't show how much love and care is given.

so what does show? fruit. giving someone a warm coat for the winter is good, but is fruit given with that clothing? is the church reaching beyond the physical needs to the emotional and spiritual?

i cannot believe the Church is doing it's job today. if it were, many people would not be hurting like they are.

I agree and disagree, I'll say this the Church does a lot better job of dealing with the real issues people are poor. Socialism is this. You go out and catch three fish. The Government takes two of your Fish and gives one to who they deem worthy, and let them eat it they keep on. The next day repeat. The person who does not know how to fish keeps getting fed, while the one who fishes keeps working hard and having the reward for his labor taken away.

The Church, does not always take care of the poor, but when they do, they tend to do more then just give away fish. They try to bring spiritual healing and more. I have seen many Church run organizations, not only feed the poor but set up program's to get them jobs,s off drugs, etc and to basically teach them to Fish. Also remember the Church is not a "Building" but it is the "Body" of Christ, and worldwide the "Church" does more to alleviate poverty and hardship then any government program ever will. especially in country's where the government kills and abuses more of there people then they help.

For Andy and Charitow,

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=2682730&page=1 who gives.

Quote from the article

Arthur Brooks, the author of "Who Really Cares," says that "when you look at the data, it turns out the conservatives give about 30 percent more." He adds, "And incidentally, conservative-headed families make slightly less money."

And he says the differences in giving goes beyond money, pointing out that conservatives are 18 percent more likely to donate blood. He says this difference is not about politics, but about the different way conservatives and liberals view government.

"You find that people who believe it's the government's job to make incomes more equal, are far less likely to give their money away," Brooks says. In fact, people who disagree with the statement, "The government has a basic responsibility to take care of the people who can't take care of themselves," are 27 percent more likely to give to charity.

Interesting no?

Taxes are good and needed to run the basic government functions. These include protecting our borders (the army) Keeping the peace (Police) Transportation (Rodes) Etc. The US government, did not start with an income tax. They started it to pay for a war, now its gotten out of control. The income tax and all the other taxes that effectually rob from the hard working upper middle class to rich is not to give to the poor, but to spend on themselves. On them gaining control of ever increasing aspects of our lives. Including the Auto industry, (Government Motors anyone) Banks,(bail outs with strings) Lending etc.. oh and since the Income (robbery) tax Adjusting for inflation, in the 81 years between the enactment of the income tax in 1913 to 1994, government spending increased 13,592%! We are still paying for the war of 1812.

You see the socialism that is proposed is not about people being taken care of, or social programs. Its about government control. Now my wife is from Norway, they have a A constitutional monarchy. They have many socialized programs that are social in nature. These work well, not perfectly but better then most I have seen. So I am not against all social programs, just a government under the guise of "sympathy for the unfortunate" steals from hard working people to pay for its insane amount of spending!

[Matthitjah]

Shiloh, please reread, I never defended socialism in the sense of wealth distribution.

I AM making a case that Israel under theocratic reign, had obligatory giving that went to the poor. And I AM making a case that this does set a standard for us today.

Yet that standard hs nothing to do with the Government stealing wealth. It also does not put the Government in charge of Compassion.

Getting back to the article it is the basis of what we are up against in the U.S. We have a Government operating on Liberation Theology which has nothing whatsoever to do with Biblical Christianity.

Peace,

Dave

[Matthitjah]

Humans start with good intentions but they loose their way eventually. Brilliant ideas can only work with God in mind. Therefore when an idea is failing then humans say it is either God's will or it is in the Bible or both. For some reason in the US private initative is working well whilst in other countries socialism works. They are not interchangeable.

Blessings

Socialism doesn't work. It has destroyed European economy's and society as a whole. When the Government replaced the need for God and the society became secular. The Churches became devoid of parshoners and are now dead.

[~candice~]

OK, I think the comments I want to make in reply will send this thread off topic.

So out of respect for Dave, and the topic, I won't go there .

[nebula]

Apparently, this just got aired a couple days ago:

A Stunning Look at Follies and Failures of Socialism

Is socialism biblical? Is life better when Washington runs Wall Street and Main Street? A stunning new documentary from Coral Ridge Ministries offers answers at a time when socialism is on the march in America with business bailouts and government-run health care. Featuring footage from Cuba and Venezuela, and experts who once toed the socialist line, Socialism: A Clear and Present Danger gives you an illuminating look at the real-world results of Marx and his many followers – and why their failed ideas violate God's Word.

http://www.dangersofsocialism.com/default.aspx

~~

TV Documentary Shows Socialist Ideas Devastated Detroit; Demonstrates Why Failed Ideology Is Clear and Present Danger for America -- Airs May 23 Nationwide

by Staff

May 21, 2010

FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla., (christiansunite.com) -- As America sprints toward socialism, the city of Detroit provides a compelling look at what lies ahead and reveals why a course correction is needed. Socialism: A Clear and Present Danger, a TV documentary that airs nationwide Sunday, May 23, looks at the Motor City, where experts say excessive government regulation, social welfare policies, entitlement programs, and more have devastated what was once a vibrant American metropolis. A preview of the program is here.

Rev. Levon Yuille, a Detroit-area pastor for 42 years, says it is heartbreaking to see the city's transformation from one of America's most prosperous cities in the 1950s to one with a surplus of squalor, vacant lots, abandoned houses, dilapidated buildings, and blight.

"The city has lost half of its population and it has a skyrocketing crime rate," Yuille said. He blames the city's devastation on social welfare programs employed more than 30 years ago. That's when the Marxist philosophy of Coleman Young, Detroit's mayor from 1974 to 1993, began to take root, Yuille explained.

Socialism: A Clear and Present Danger also features footage from Venezuela and testimonies from Venezuelans who live under the socialist regime of Hugo Chavez. Interviews conducted in Latin America, and across America, and an analysis of socialism's tragic and blood-stained record in the 20th century show that a free market economic system produces the best results for citizens.

"The last century offers overwhelming evidence that socialism may promise paradise, but in the end, it produces poverty, tyranny and death," said Dr. Jerry Newcombe, co-producer of the TV documentary. "Socialism not only violates the principles of God's Word, but it has brought misery to millions. That's why America must not go down its path."

Coral Ridge Ministries is a Christian media outreach founded by the late Dr. D. James Kennedy. Its programming reaches a national television, radio, and Internet audience at www.coralridge.org.

http://news.christiansunite.com/Religion_N...tml?from=gadget

[nebula]

Quotes presented in the Documentary:

http://www.dangersofsocialism.com/bio.aspx

[Guest shiloh357]

Quote onenewsnow,com;

Sorry, Mr. President: Socialism's not in the Bible

John Aman - Guest Columnist - 5/22/2010 5:00:00 AM

Having placed 50 percent of America's economy under government control, the Obama administration is now angling for a tighter grip on the financial sector.

The operative word is "fairness," which is shorthand for Obama's famous campaign promise to "spread the wealth around."

When critics said that this remark to "Joe the Plumber" displayed Obama's socialist leanings, Obama justified it by citing Scripture:

"My Bible tells me there is nothing wrong with helping other people," said then-Sen. Obama. "That we want to treat others like we want to be treated. That I am my brother's keeper, and I am my sister's keeper. I believe that."

But Obama, who once dismissed the Bible's relevance to politics, saying, "People haven't been reading their Bibles lately," may need to go reread his Engels. Co-author with Karl Marx of The Communist Manifesto, Friedrich Engels knew better than Obama about collectivism's clash with Christianity, stating, "...if some few passages of the Bible may be favourable to Communism, the general spirit of its doctrines is, nevertheless, totally opposed to it ...."

Despite Engels and Marx (who dismissed religion as the "opium of the people"), Obama and many others still manage to see socialism in the Bible. They point to the early church which, at first glance, seems like a model socialist community. The New Testament reports that these first believers "had all things in common" (Acts 4:32) and "all who were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of the things that were sold, and laid them at the apostles' feet; and they distributed to each as anyone had need" (Acts 4:34-35).

But unlike socialism, the sharing was voluntary, not coerced, and the money was given not to the state, but the church. As Southern Baptist leader Richard Land puts it on the new Coral Ridge Ministries documentary, Socialism: A Clear and Present Danger, "It's one thing for you to give out of compassion to someone who's less fortunate. It's an entirely different thing for the government to confiscate your property and give it to someone else." (Part 2 of the documentary airs Sunday, May 23, nationwide on The Coral Ridge Hour.)

While the Bible asserts property rights and the rights of inheritance, socialism assaults them. Marx and Engels put the "abolition of property" first in a ten-step program for implementing communism. That's not exactly a Christian thing to do. The eighth commandment, "You shall not steal" (Exodus 20:15) applies every bit as much to the men and women who hold the reins of political power as it does to everyone else.

So does the 10th commandment, "You shall not covet" (Exodus 20:17). Coveting, or envy, is a powerful driver of socialism, which is in a perpetual snit that some people have more than others. So when President Obama castigates "Fats Cats" on Wall Street, decries "economic inequality," and warns, as he did in his 2009 budget statement that a "disproportionate share of the nation's wealth has been accumulated by the very wealthy," he stokes a destructive impulse that is condemned by Scripture.

Socialism also runs afoul of the first commandment, "You shall have no other gods before Me" (Exodus 20:3). Socialist governments seek to play God

[Guest shiloh357]

Socialism is in part, based on a false premise concerning human nature. Socialistic thinking assmues the inherent goodness of man. This flies in stark contradiction to Scripture which teaches that man is not inherently good at all; man is inherently evil and sinful.

[Guest shiloh357]

The site Nebula linked to offers a book, "10 Truths About Socialism." Here is an exerpt from the intro of that book.

Spreading the Wealth

And then came 2008. First, President George W. Bush

[hr.jr.]

Everybody knows that God is a capitalist.

That's not what was advocated nor has it been said in this article.

I would venture to say that God does instruct us to be Capitalists. We are to be capitalists with a very compassionate hearts. The Word of God is plain that we are to work for our living. Those who do not work are to not eat. God instructed us to love our neighbor and to help the poor. He did not instruct us to set up a system of entitlement that allowed the lazy and immoral to be rewarded for their laziness and immorality. You will be very hard pressed to show me a scripture that even remotely suggests we are to provide un-wed women, who choose not to work, with shelter, food, clothing, and a pay raise for every additional child they have out of wedloc.