Claim Jesus, but not speak out for him?

[EricH]

I have in recent days been told of a band called MUTEMATH by a friend named Jon.

"They are like the best band ever!" He says.

"Are they Christian?" I ask.

"Yeh, of course! They are awesome!"

So, I go and look up a song or ten on Youtube. (What can I say, I want to know more than one or two songs!)

Found out, at least to me, that they ARE amazing.

But when I looked deeper, I found they fought hard to stay out of a christian label, saying they wanted to be respected as musicians, not for their faith.

They are all christian guys, but do not write christian music or claim Christianity in any of their music.

Sure, some of their songs have a spiritual undertone.

But sometimes that tone is so far under it is barely heard.

Is this right or wrong? To not speak out for Jesus when you know of His AWESOMENESS?

Is it required that all Christian musicians write music that is targeted at Christians only and explicitly Christian in its content? Couldn't be possible for them to be musicians who happen to be Christian (not Christian Musicians). Of course it would still be incumbent on them to glorify God in their lyrics and behavior. In the same way a person coule be an author who happens to be Christian, but not write distinctively Christian books.

One could argue that they might be more missional by living with and associating with the unbelieving music community.

[nebula]

Is it required that all Christian musicians write music that is targeted at Christians only and explicitly Christian in its content? Couldn't be possible for them to be musicians who happen to be Christian (not Christian Musicians). Of course it would still be incumbent on them to glorify God in their lyrics and behavior. In the same way a person coule be an author who happens to be Christian, but not write distinctively Christian books.

One could argue that they might be more missional by living with and associating with the unbelieving music community.

That's why one would have to actually know the guys better to make a more informed decision.

[~candice~]

I work and none of what is produced [written materials] contains any gospel or evangelical material at all.

Perhaps they are doing the same?

[SlipperyPete]

QUOTE (SlipperyPete @ Jun 9 2010, 06:56 PM)

Just because these guys believe and love and live with Jesus doesn't mean it's thier responsibility to preach the gospel.

Scripture?

QUOTE

No, only those whom feel the call need respond, even Paul teaches not to get messed up in the ministry but to live a quite and uneventful life enjoying what Jesus paid for.

Please post what you are referring to - the Scripture, that is.

1 Thessalonians 4:9 "Now as to the love of the brethren, you have no need for anyone to write to you, for you yourselves are taught by God to love one another; 10 for indeed you do practice it toward all the brethren who are in all Macedonia But we urge you, brethren, to excel still more, 11 and to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life and attend to your own business and work with your hands, just as we commanded you, 12so that you will behave properly toward outsiders and not be in any need."

second point; not all are to be preacher/teacher

1 Corinthians 12:27 "Now you are Christ's body, and individually members of it. 28And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues."

Ephesians 4:11 "And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, 12for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ"

1 Timothy 5:17 "The elders who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching."

1 Timothy 2:7 "For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle"

2 Timothy 1:11 "for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle and a teacher."

James 3:1 "Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment."

What did Jesus die for? For us, to enjoy the peace joy and rightouesness of the kingdom and share time with the Father...there is no need for judgement to discearn what we do with that.

Jesus death is about us and not Him ?

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, He gave..." It was for the world that He gave Jesus, He did not give Jesus for Jesus.

Those who want to preach let them preach, those who want to heal let them heal, those who want to council let them council those who want to live let them live...for we all stand because of what He did and He is able to make us stand. It is the Father's job to raise His children, He doesn't leave it to us to raise His chinldren....He however leaves us to be able to build each other up.

"Those who want to live let them live"? I don't see that listed in the gifts of the Spirit nor in the administrations.

Let me ask you, what reason is there for our salvation? Is it to be a race of robots who sit around all day singing about God and talking about how great He is?

[nebula]

QUOTE (SlipperyPete @ Jun 9 2010, 06:56 PM)

Just because these guys believe and love and live with Jesus doesn't mean it's thier responsibility to preach the gospel.

Scripture?

QUOTE

No, only those whom feel the call need respond, even Paul teaches not to get messed up in the ministry but to live a quite and uneventful life enjoying what Jesus paid for.

Please post what you are referring to - the Scripture, that is.

1 Thessalonians 4:9 "Now as to the love of the brethren, you have no need for anyone to write to you, for you yourselves are taught by God to love one another; 10 for indeed you do practice it toward all the brethren who are in all Macedonia But we urge you, brethren, to excel still more, 11 and to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life and attend to your own business and work with your hands, just as we commanded you, 12so that you will behave properly toward outsiders and not be in any need."

That passage was not meant to negate the Great Commission.

Matt. 28

18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always *, even to the end of the age."

second point; not all are to be preacher/teacher

1 Corinthians 12:27 "Now you are Christ's body, and individually members of it. 28And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues."

Ephesians 4:11 "And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, 12for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ"

1 Timothy 5:17 "The elders who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching."

1 Timothy 2:7 "For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle"

2 Timothy 1:11 "for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle and a teacher."

James 3:1 "Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment."

But are we not to all be ministers of the Gospel?

Revelation 1:6 - and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father -to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.

What does a priest do?

And if we do not glorify the Lord with our lips, who will?

What did Jesus die for? For us, to enjoy the peace joy and rightouesness of the kingdom and share time with the Father...there is no need for judgement to discearn what we do with that.

Jesus death is about us and not Him ?

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, He gave..." It was for the world that He gave Jesus, He did not give Jesus for Jesus.

Those who want to preach let them preach, those who want to heal let them heal, those who want to council let them council those who want to live let them live...for we all stand because of what He did and He is able to make us stand. It is the Father's job to raise His children, He doesn't leave it to us to raise His chinldren....He however leaves us to be able to build each other up.

"Those who want to live let them live"? I don't see that listed in the gifts of the Spirit nor in the administrations.

Let me ask you, what reason is there for our salvation? Is it to be a race of robots who sit around all day singing about God and talking about how great He is?

No, it's to love God and be in fellowship with Him.

And it is to bring the world into reconciliation with Him.

2 Cor. 5

14 For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died ; 15 and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf. 16 Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh ; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer. 17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature ; the old things passed away ; behold, new things have come. 18 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Is Jesus your servant, or is He your Lord?

[SlipperyPete]

That passage was not meant to negate the Great Commission.

Matt. 28

18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always *, even to the end of the age."

The passage you call the great commission was never meant to enlist the enitire believeing body. I find it interesting that I compiled a list of scriptures and you list one. That's because you entire argument is based on one scripture and presented how you want, as opposed to a number of scriptures that draw a whole picture.

But are we not to all be ministers of the Gospel?

Revelation 1:6 - and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father -to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.

What does a priest do?

And if we do not glorify the Lord with our lips, who will?

Ministers, have you ever noticed there are alot of scriptures that say, "and they ministered to God." If you haven't look it up. Does God need ministry, is he feeling depressed and neeeds some inspirational words too? Does God need to be saved? Of cousre not, and just as you are inserting about ministers, not all ministers are preachers for the gospel. 1 Samuel 2:11 "Then Elkanah went to his home at Ramah. But the boy ministered to the LORD before Eli the priest."

What are the things of preists, now you are asking a real question. Go read Leviticus and Dueteronomy and Numbers and Exodus, then you will know because that's where the promise was made and outlined. Exodus 19.

Glorify, All of Creation praises and sings His name. It's a Psalm, not our duty. Glorify, do you even know what that word means? I assume you think it means to have a big shinny light or worship and such....however that's not what the word means, it means to have ones opinion raised. For instance, if I swore at you your opinion of me would lessen however if I said you were a great person your opinion of me would raise, the riasing is the glorifying. God is glorified by what Jesus did, because of what Jesus did I think of God in a much "higher" regard.

No, it's to love God and be in fellowship with Him.

Right, and that's what Jesus came to do, to restore the fellowship we can have with God. He came for us, for us to have fellowship with God. He didn't come on His own behalf, He came because sent Him to heal our relationship with Him.

And it is to bring the world into reconciliation with Him.

2 Corinthians 5:19 "namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation."

God already accomplished this, that's not our responsibility. As far as reconciliation, it's a done deal. Do you know what reconciliation means? The root word is, Concile; to bring together...reconciliation means to bring back together, we(man) were with Him in full fellowship in the Garden but that was lost and now through the cross God has brought that back.

I also find it quite interesting how you take things out of context. You quote that whole passage but seem to forget that Paul was talking about himself and his calling and why he was doing it.

2 Corinthians 12 "We are not again commending ourselves to you but are giving you an occasion to be proud of us, so that you will have an answer for those who take pride in appearance and not in heart. 13For if we are beside ourselves, it is for God; if we are of sound mind, it is for you. 14For the love of Christ controls us....

Paul is not talking about the whole body has recieved this call, this charge or responisibility, no, Paul was telling about his to combat claims made against him by opposition "Super Apostles." Just because you apply this to yourself and all Christianity doesn't make it so. In fact because you use Paul's words as though they are you, you are acknowledging you are quite in error.

Howcome you don't use Jesus' words the same? Jesus said, "I am the truth the life and the way." So does that mean that all Christians are the truth the life and the way? Jesus said, "I am the ressurection" does that mean that all Christians are the ressurection?

Of course not, then why when Paul says it it means all Christians? He wasnt teaching who all Christians were, he was defending whom Paul was.

Edited June 11, 2010 by SlipperyPete

[Guest yod]

I have in recent days been told of a band called MUTEMATH by a friend named Jon.

"They are like the best band ever!" He says.

"Are they Christian?" I ask.

"Yeh, of course! They are awesome!"

So, I go and look up a song or ten on Youtube. (What can I say, I want to know more than one or two songs!)

Found out, at least to me, that they ARE amazing.

But when I looked deeper, I found they fought hard to stay out of a christian label, saying they wanted to be respected as musicians, not for their faith.

They are all christian guys, but do not write christian music or claim Christianity in any of their music.

Sure, some of their songs have a spiritual undertone.

But sometimes that tone is so far under it is barely heard.

Is this right or wrong? To not speak out for Jesus when you know of His AWESOMENESS?

Is it required that all Christian musicians write music that is targeted at Christians only and explicitly Christian in its content? Couldn't be possible for them to be musicians who happen to be Christian (not Christian Musicians). Of course it would still be incumbent on them to glorify God in their lyrics and behavior. In the same way a person coule be an author who happens to be Christian, but not write distinctively Christian books.

One could argue that they might be more missional by living with and associating with the unbelieving music community.

amen....I'm with the Pastor on this one. There is a time and a place for everything. What is "right" with one person could be "wrong" for another.

Being a musician and being a musician that plays only christian music are 2 different things.

For everyone who has criticized these guys, I have a question.

"Do you evangelize with every breath at your job?"

Of course not...that would be hyper-religious unless your job is an evangelist. There is a need for christians to be in the world and not of it. If these guys are able to keep themselves above the temptations of being a musician in the secular realm, then they would have access and influence in places where no one else would.

Alice Cooper is a good example. Did you know he's been saved since the late 80s? He recognized that he didn't want to become christian celebrity (like they did to Dylan) and kept doing secular music. By doing this, he has been able to help other big-name secular musicians with alcohol and drug addictions, as well as other life-threatening bondages.

Everyone who has come to faith will be a witness, one way or the other. Sampson comes to mind. Either we will be faithful or become a proverb of what happens when we aren't faithful.

Sometimes the best evangelism comes from the reluctant evangelist; someone who isn't targeting people but rather just being his/her normal self in the course of the everyday mundane.

[nebula]

The passage you call the great commission was never meant to enlist the enitire believeing body.

By the way you argue, I could argue back that the verse you quoted, being in the book or Thessalonians, was meant only for the Christians in Thessalonica.

I find it interesting that I compiled a list of scriptures and you list one. That's because you entire argument is based on one scripture and presented how you want, as opposed to a number of scriptures that draw a whole picture.

I was responding to one passage with one passage here.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1 Thessalonians 4:9 "Now as to the love of the brethren, you have no need for anyone to write to you, for you yourselves are taught by God to love one another; 10 for indeed you do practice it toward all the brethren who are in all Macedonia But we urge you, brethren, to excel still more, 11 and to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life and attend to your own business and work with your hands, just as we commanded you, 12so that you will behave properly toward outsiders and not be in any need."

That passage was not meant to negate the Great Commission.

Matt. 28

18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always *, even to the end of the age."

[nebula]

But are we not to all be ministers of the Gospel?

Revelation 1:6 - and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father -to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.

What does a priest do?

And if we do not glorify the Lord with our lips, who will?

Ministers, have you ever noticed there are alot of scriptures that say, "and they ministered to God." If you haven't look it up. Does God need ministry, is he feeling depressed and neeeds some inspirational words too? Does God need to be saved? Of cousre not, and just as you are inserting about ministers, not all ministers are preachers for the gospel. 1 Samuel 2:11 "Then Elkanah went to his home at Ramah. But the boy ministered to the LORD before Eli the priest."

What are the things of preists, now you are asking a real question. Go read Leviticus and Dueteronomy and Numbers and Exodus, then you will know because that's where the promise was made and outlined. Exodus 19.

Glorify, All of Creation praises and sings His name. It's a Psalm, not our duty. Glorify, do you even know what that word means? I assume you think it means to have a big shinny light or worship and such....however that's not what the word means, it means to have ones opinion raised. For instance, if I swore at you your opinion of me would lessen however if I said you were a great person your opinion of me would raise, the riasing is the glorifying. God is glorified by what Jesus did, because of what Jesus did I think of God in a much "higher" regard.

Wow - I don't even know where to begin with this.

I feel like David just coming home from worshiping the Lord in the streets and then being rebuked by Michal.

I guess there's a lot of stones crying out around your home, huh?

[SlipperyPete]

But are we not to all be ministers of the Gospel?

Revelation 1:6 - and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father -to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.

What does a priest do?

And if we do not glorify the Lord with our lips, who will?

Ministers, have you ever noticed there are alot of scriptures that say, "and they ministered to God." If you haven't look it up. Does God need ministry, is he feeling depressed and neeeds some inspirational words too? Does God need to be saved? Of cousre not, and just as you are inserting about ministers, not all ministers are preachers for the gospel. 1 Samuel 2:11 "Then Elkanah went to his home at Ramah. But the boy ministered to the LORD before Eli the priest."

What are the things of preists, now you are asking a real question. Go read Leviticus and Dueteronomy and Numbers and Exodus, then you will know because that's where the promise was made and outlined. Exodus 19.

Glorify, All of Creation praises and sings His name. It's a Psalm, not our duty. Glorify, do you even know what that word means? I assume you think it means to have a big shinny light or worship and such....however that's not what the word means, it means to have ones opinion raised. For instance, if I swore at you your opinion of me would lessen however if I said you were a great person your opinion of me would raise, the riasing is the glorifying. God is glorified by what Jesus did, because of what Jesus did I think of God in a much "higher" regard.

Wow - I don't even know where to begin with this.

I feel like David just coming home from worshiping the Lord in the streets and then being rebuked by Michal.

I guess there's a lot of stones crying out around your home, huh?

So this is where I guess you explain why Vines Expository Dictionary is an unreliable source? Considering that's one source, and is highly regarded. Strongs is a highly unreliable source also?

I guess you aren't really interested in discussion but only in arguing. I made some points, with reliable sources and presented them and all you do is insult. At least now I know your spirit.

Thanks anyway, had enough of that already, don't need anymore.