Be Perfect ...

[Guest shadow2b]

I perceive you are alluding to the doctrine of "Eternal Security" are you?

no I wasnt'...but I was alluding to the fact that one might not go straight to heaven when they die, yet NOT go to ---- either.

[Dad Ernie]

Phil 3:7-15 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. 8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: 10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; 11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. 12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

[Guest Michael]

Dear Friends,

The awesome message of "on to perfection" must become central to those who have had the foundation of Christ laid in their lives. After all what is the purpose of laying a foundation? Is it not to be BUILT UPON? Therefore let us begin to grasp the importance of the words of Yashua.

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Matt.5:48

Here Yashua gives us the standard for all who would be his disciple. If there is NO STANDARD then nothing else matters!

If there is NO STANDARD we have nothing to judge by. If man cannot be perfect EVEN WITH GODS GRACE in his life then we dont have the right to judge any man!

Thats right saints. If the Christian cannot be perfect how can we judge the sinning false prophets, teachers, and average believer? If they CANNOT overcome sin and error in this life we have no right to criticize them. It then merely becomes an issue of judging them by our OWN SELVES!

12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise. 2 Cor.10:12

You see it? If we measure ourselves and compare ourselves with each other WE ARE DECEIVED! One can say Im doing every bit as good as the next guy. But how do you know THE NEXT GUY is doing allright? So either we are going to measure ourselves by the standard Yashua set or every man will do what is right IN HIS OWN EYES.

Is it any wonder satan hates the message of perfection? It delivers us from our own ways and our own pride that says

"I have all I need" and points us to the lofty standard of God himself! Talk about a message that will keep us humble!

It keeps even those who have walked with the Lord MANY YEARS from spiritual stagnation because they MUST STAY STRONG or their many years of obedience could still be in vain.

The powers of darkness will always try to quench this message and call it "legalism" or "works salvation" but nonetheless God still says BE YE PERFECT. The enemys hope is in the fact Christians will never embrace this truth.

Yashua says if OUR WORKS ARE NOT PERFECT we will still be lost. This cannot be denied.

1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.

3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. Rev.3:1-6

The church at Sardis was A NEW TESTAMENT CHURCH. Yet only a FEW PERSONS there would in the end be saved. You might say no one can live up to this! If you do you are wrong. Average Christians can and have overcome.

13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.

14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

1 John 2:13-14 peace,mike

[George]

Yashua says if OUR WORKS ARE NOT PERFECT we will still be lost.

I believe some clarification is needed on this sentence.  I certainly do not want to jump to a conclusion without properly understanding your position.

Your brother in Christ with much agape love,

George

[Guest Michael]

Hi George,

Yashua is the Lord. He sets the terms of salvation. The Sardis Church was a real New Testament Church. Pay close attention to what he tells them.

1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.

3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. Rev.3:1-6

Verse 4. They defiled their garments. In other words they had sin in their lives.  Those who had NOT defiled them would be worthy.

Verse 5. Those who do not OVERCOME will be blotted out of the book of life.

These are the words of our Lord. Do we believe them? Many claim to believe in Jesus but do NOT believe the things he says. Let us believe, obey and live.     peace to you, mike

[Guest InHisLove]

What "OTHER STATE" would we be purified in "IF" JESUS hasNOT purified us totally & absolutely by HIS sinFREE blood sacrifice?? What further do we need to be purified from??

With all due respect, shadow, Jesus died for ALL people for ALL time.  So if merely His death purified us, then ALL PEOPLE would go straight to heaven for ALL TIME.

[Guest InHisLove]

The Sardis Church was a real New Testament Church. Pay close attention to what he tells them.

Greetings Michael...would  you mind explaining what you mean by this statement?  I'm confused as to what you're referring to.  Thanks.

[Guest Michael]

In HisLove,

It seems simple to me. The Church Jesus speaks to is truly his body. Not tares. He says what he says to HIS PEOPLE.

If they are found being overcome HE will blot their name out of his book. The lesson for us to learn today is our works must be perfect. This is the whole point Jesus is trying to make.

When Jesus says Be ye perfect HE MEANS be ye perfect.

Every Church, every minister, every disciple should be understanding and teaching this.

Perfection is commanded by Christ and the very purpose of New Testament ministry.

28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

     

This should be the easiest doctrine of all to understand. God is against sin. Those who continue in it will never enter the gates of the Heavenly Kingdom.                  peace, mike

[Guest InHisLove]

The lesson for us to learn today is our works must be perfect.

How do WE know if our "works" are perfect or not?

If we are perfect, then we don't need repentence, because perfection doesn't require repentence.  SO, you're saying (correct me if I'm wrong), that if we aren't "perfect" and what we do isn't pleasing to God (by works that aren't perfect), then we're cast out ... blotted out of the book of life for all eternity?

This should be the easiest doctrine of all to understand. God is against sin. Those who continue in it will never enter the gates of the Heavenly Kingdom.

Of course God is against sin, but the Word of God says plainly ... Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins. Eccl 7:20 (RSV) ... so then how can anyone be saved if they sin, according to your doctrinal interpretation?  

Also, according to the scriptures, there is a distinguishing aspect of sin ... those that lead to death and those that do not.  Do you think that there no degree of seriousness when it comes to committing a sin?  Scriptures point out that there are sins that are more serious in nature that deprive the soul of communion with God.  These are called "mortal" (deadly) sins (1 John 5:16-17).  Even Jesus Christ distinguished between lesser and greater sins (John 19:11).

This all leaves a whole in your theory about the blotting out by any sin theory, I believe.  Paul tells us ... 11 For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw -- 13 each man's work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 14 If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 15 If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire. 1 Cor 3:11-15 (RSV).  

I believe that you're missing the link of where that final purification, the perfection, comes from.  If one dies prior to repentence of a sin (perhaps of sins of the mind, such as judgmental thoughts, etc. that he might not even be aware of), then our Lord PURIFIES us so that ... at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,  and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Phil 2:9-11 (RSV).  Where do you think that this "under the earth" is and what does it represent?  It can't be hell, for there is no forgiveness for those in hell.  It isn't here on earth, and it isn't heaven.  There's another "place" or "state" of fire purifying so that the work is burned up, and the man (person) suffers loss, but he himself will be SAVED!  Please explain to me this from your point of view.

11 the LORD, knows the thoughts of man,

    that they are but a breath.

12 Blessed is the man whom thou dost chasten, O LORD,

       Psalms 94:11-12 (RSV)

8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts,

    neither are your ways my ways, says the LORD.

9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth,

    so are my ways higher than your ways

    and my thoughts than your thoughts.

        Isaiah 55:8-9 (RSV)

:il:

[Guest Michael]

In HisLove,

His Works Shall Be Burned: Eternal Security?

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Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. 1 Cor.3:5-17

Verses 5-9 show who are the workers. Verse 9 also tells us who is the building. The workers are the ministers the building is the church. Gods people. The foundation also is a person EVEN CHRIST, verse 11. So the building is actually made up of persons. The ministry is working to perfect the building (church). The building material is showing the quality of the persons who make up the building.

Then they that feared the Lord spake often one to another: and the Lord hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the Lord, and that thought upon his name.

17 And they shall be mine, saith the Lord of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.

18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not. Malachi 3:16-18

The jewels are the saints who have been perfected.

For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. Mal.4:1

The hay, wood and stubble are people in the church who have lost touch with the VINE and therefore have withered and are ready to be cut off.

At the time of judgement a ministers work will be tried by fire. For every one that has been perfected he will receive a reward. However not all will be perfected. Those who fail the test are CONSUMED IN THE FIRE JUDGEMENT. For those the minister suffers loss. He spent time teaching, loving, and praying for them. He invested his time and love for them yet they failed to be overcomers. That is the loss he suffers. Verse 15

He himself shall be saved. Although not every one the minister labors for will finally make it he HIMSELF shall not be accountable for their failures. But they do receive a reward for those that are purified and made white.

He ends up by saying If any man defile the temple of God him shall God DESTROY: for the temple of God is holy WHICH TEMPLE YE ARE. VERSE 17

Therefore I conclude that THE BASE those who failed God will not enter the kingdom. They shall be burned (ANNIHILATED)up in judgement. verse 15

I know this teaching is a basis for those who believe in eternal security but closer examination reveals different.

This isnt teaching about the believers works (deeds) being judged and although they are evil they are still accepted.

It is actually a warning for the ministry to beware about HOW THEY BUILD. Their WORK meaning the PEOPLE will be judged and for those who make it there will be a reward for the minister. For those who dont make it there is loss because ministry was given but not heeded. But it shows THE ULTIMATE DESTRUCTION of the hay, wood, and stubble church members who dont take God seriously.

Only those who are HOLY shall be saved!

Follow peace with all men AND HOLINESS without which no man shall see the Lord. Heb.12:14 peace,mike