Guest Posted April 3, 2002 Share Posted April 3, 2002 Well, yes. Sort of. My original post was:A nation that simply allows it's people to be blown all over the scenery does not deserve to go on, deserves no pity and it's time America cuts all aid to all the Middle East nations because it is nothing but a huge waste of money, time and manpower. I stand by that. I don't and nobody else knows for sure if the current Israel is THE Israel. It probably is but it's beside the point because God not the US is the protector of Israel. You are free to claim whatever and I don't care, but when Israel on their second try moved into Canaan, they did not look to the US or Egypt or anyone but God for help. They TOOK the land. They did not whine about it being God's gift. They TOOK it. So, you can claim it's in the Bible and it is. No argument. Now go over to Israel and tell it to Arafat. I'm sure once you explain to him how Israel was given that land a long time ago he will come to his senses and sign everything over to Israel, apologize and leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teri Mc Posted April 4, 2002 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 189 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/11/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted April 4, 2002 What does Arafats opinion of things have to do with Scripture? And are you standing in America, look around you and tell me about a huge waste of money. The only use God has for money is for us to advance His kingdom here on earth so what use is it otherwise. Are we to worry about money or Gods will? And as far as supporting Israel we are either for or against there is no middle ground in this. Also your asking people to respond with scripture to your opinion. Pick one.Love in Christ Teri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RickA Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 That's quite the store you have there Joe and being the Christian guy that you are you mean to tell me that you promote and sell videos on "The faces of death" http://www.joegrossinger.com/store/weird.htm I'>http://www.joegrossinger.com/video/facesofdeath.jpgI just went through your web page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RickA Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 Joe This is the point all American Christians seem to be missing. We have no business interfering with God's plan for God's people. I see no mandate in the Bible to protect Israel. Seems to me that God's plan includes the U.S. helping Israel or Israel and the Jews would already be driven into the sea. Maybe in your opinion the U.S. should be against Isarel? Or just sit on the sidelines and be a bench warmer? Seems to me that all the bench warmers and the countries against Israel are right in the path of God's judgement. It's a good thing the Rapture will spare the believers and those that support Israel, before the U.S. turns their back on her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 4, 2002 Share Posted April 4, 2002 Seems to me that God's plan includes the U.S. helping Israel or Israel and the Jews would already be driven into the sea.Joe: Oh? No faith in God? Maybe in your opinion the U.S. should be against Isarel? Or just sit on the sidelines and be a bench warmer?Joe: Like the US has done such a great job with other nations we have helped. LOL! I have a bit more faith in God than I do in the nation that helped S. Vietnam remain free.In fact I don't advocate abandoning Israel. What I am trying to point out is that folks need to stop wringing their hands over Israel. God is in control. Not the US. That is key. Now you make a lot of assertions but don't try to back anything up with any kind of facts. Just rants and claims.Indeed, the Tribulation is God's judgment and the main recipient of God's wrath will be Israel! It's all about them! Israel will be brought to Christ, but at a huge cost to Israel. So let's let God take care of Israel and lets just try and mind our own business, our own war and not get all tangled up with yet another stupid war that will not be resolved until Israel signs that seven year pact with the devil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnS Posted April 4, 2002 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 193 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,459 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/28/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/20/1965 Share Posted April 4, 2002 No hand-wringing here, Joe! God's plan will come to pass, regardless. Israel isn't going anywhere with or without our assistance. But, don't you think these things are beyond our control? I know the outcome and I know God will glorify His name through Israel. I know the surviving Jews will be saved. I know the nations that come against Israel will incur God's wrath. This is God's will as set forth in the Holy Scriptures. This is also my will because God is in me. When Israel is delivered from impossible odds, the Jews will know it is the hand of God. That means one of three things: The US is setting back and watching (afraid to offend our oil suppliers), the US turns on Israel and joins the attack (which means I'll be doing my best to hitch a ride with George), or the US is no longer around as a super-power. I just can't mind my own business. The affairs of the nations are out of my control, but prayer is a powerful weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 6, 2002 Share Posted April 6, 2002 You make some good points John. The same ones I have been making for some time. The rapture will take the US out of the picture. I just posted a scenario on my forum that seems to be taking place right now and won't take more than  a week or 2 before we find out how far I'm wrong. Look for: POSSIBLE UNCONVENTIONAL ATTACK FROM LEBANON My main point concerning the US backing away from Israel has everything to do with allowing God to work with Israel and nothing with me not liking Jews. I just feel that as long as they can hang on the Washington they will ignore God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Faye Posted April 6, 2002 Share Posted April 6, 2002 Isn't President Bush a Christian? Could God be helping Israel through him? Wouldn't the president vanish at the rapture? What would happen to Israel's help then?Just some question's that came to mind. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josephstrks Posted April 11, 2002 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 143 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/24/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted April 11, 2002 Joe! have you ever put a jig-saw puzzel together??? Another question, are you by chance a business man??? Another question, if you were arested today for being a christian, would there be enough evidence to convict you??? Prov. 11:2 proud men end in shame, but the meek become wise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EPHRIAM777 Posted April 12, 2002 Share Posted April 12, 2002 Quote: from Joe Grossinger on 11:41 am on April 2, 2002 No error. The 10 tribes went off to Afghanistan Eph replies... Well they were taken captive into Assyria..see 2 KINGS 17:5:6...which is that area of the world today mostly Iran and Iraq..with just a small area of Afganistan..That king of Assyria took SAMARIA..which is the 10 northern tribes according to EZK 23:4..Micah 1:5..! Judah along with Benjamin and the Levite's were taken over 100 yrs later into Babylon..It was the northern 10 tribes that never returned..But Judah DID return...In truth half of Manassah and Reuben went before the rest of the 10 tribes did..! H O Israel never returned to that area of the world...But Judah did...and scripture is quite clear on that...! Joe says... Ezekiel 34 -40 tells the story of Israel rejected, all tribes. God never split Israel. That was a man-made divison that God never approved of. Eph replies...! GOD did have a hand in it..See ZECH 11:14..and 1 KINGS 11:31..1 KINGS 12:20:24..Judah was commanded NOT to fight against their brothers "Israel" when they split up the kingdom back into two..This "break up"..was according to the word of the LORD...! I will provide all the verses if you require them..! Joe says... Israel was given the land by God, but they had to fight for every inch of that land, could not look towards the US for help and instead had to trust GOD, not Washington D.C. Eph writes... Back at the end of the 1st world war..JUDAH walked with ISRAEL..and they both went back to the Land..JER 3:18.. Israel (the state)...never would have returned if not for England and the USA voting to do so..in the United Nations...! God had his hand in THAT also..it was no accident Joe...it fulfilled scripture..The word "with" in this verse is really "TO"..Judah will walk TO Israel..Now WE both visit each other..with alot of tourism..! That fulfills the "come together" portion of that verse..! It isn't CHINESE people that do the most "visiting" in Israel is it..?? PLUS EZK 37 states the 2 sticks "become one" only in the Messianic kingdom..When Jesus is ruling from Jerusalem..Till them we're still two distinct peoples..! Joe says.. We have no business interfering with God's plan for God's people. I see no mandate in the Bible to protect Israel. Eph writes... Like it our lump it..It'll be the USA Britian and Israel (the state of)..Till the CHURCH is called away..! After that the 144,000 get sealed from EACH of the tribes..not just Jews.. ""IF"" your around then you'll see 12,000 Jews along with a bunch of people in the USA..Canada..Australia..New Zeland Ireland..England..Denmark..ect ect (basically the Celtic peoples but NOT limitied to the Celtic peoples only) Who also are sealed. 12,000 from each tribe that claim an Angel told them about the one true God..! Joe writes.. The fact is that as long as we interfere we will get a bloody nose, no satisfaction and God will be prevented from working His plan for His people. Eph writes... NOT according to God...See ISA 54:17..Joe..calm your fears..gird your loins..and trust the LORD..He is in complete control of whats going on..Keep looking up..we're one day sooner than yesterday..! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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