Two Lamps Posted August 6, 2010 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 109 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/24/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/13/1973 Author Share Posted August 6, 2010 Step 1: Buy property. Step 2: Buy building permits. Step 3: Buy building materials. Step 4: Build Church Step 5: Hire Pastor Step 6: Gather congregation through advertising and door-to-door visiting. Step 7. Preach Gospel. Step 8: After a few years, concentrate more on activities than on preaching and teaching. Step 9: Grow lukewarm Step 10: Split congregation through in-fighting Step 11: Grow cold Step 12: Watch as less and less people show up on Sunday Step 13: Go into deep debt on taxes and utility bills Step 14: Close doors Step 15: Burn building down for insurance money Step 16: Get caught, plead guilty, do prison time Any Questions? Prayer first. People second. Property last. ...Hey, there's a 3 point sermon in that for sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Lamps Posted August 6, 2010 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 109 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/24/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/13/1973 Author Share Posted August 6, 2010 (edited) praying for you Thank you! Thank you! Edited August 6, 2010 by Two Lamps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted August 6, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted August 6, 2010 Couple of questions and some advice from one whose church has planted out all over the place. You think God wants you to? Thats great, but every couple I have ever seen plant a church were consumed by the desire to do so. They did not think God wanted them to, they knew. They pulled kids out of school, sold houses and immigrated to places like New Zealand, and in one case Mongolia. Without the real prospects of good employment, housing, a vehicle, etc. My point is that they simply knew. They were on fire and nothing was going to stop them. But...... They had spent a lot of time as cell group leaders and elders, (one was a pastor), had spent time teaching, dealing with church finances, utility bills, building additions, etc. They had experience in running a church. And then they went on a church planting course for three months (one was a farmer who left his farm for three months to do the course). They learned about income tax laws, banking regulations, civil law, counseling, preaching (although all had taught in church over and over), and even fire and vehicle parking regulations. I really commend you for your desire. The church needs people willing to be sent. But I caution you as a brother who cares for other believers, that there is far more to planting a church than most of us think. Blessings I am not going to begin to defend myself as a would-be church planter. That would not be the right attitude. Furthermore, I firmly believe that, although training and experience are important (and whether I have enough of those things is certainly debatable), being available for use by the Holy Spirit is the ultimate qualification. I am so willing. Toward that end, I ask for prayers. Toward the training issue, I am asking for resources. You mentioned that one couple took a three month training course. What course is that? I'd be very interested in that. I never took any church planting courses in seminary, and I don't have the prereqs to do it now. Know any good books on the subject? I just bought Viral Churches and The Celtic Way of Evangelism. I have also checked out a stack of books from the library on church planting, missional ministry, and leadership. Aubrey Malphurs, Stuart Murray, Ezra Earl Jones, Jerry Doherty, etc. I'll need more books when I get through these. Toward the experience issue, I am asking for advice. Have I been a pastor of a church? No. Nor, do I want to be. I see my job as a launchpad, a catalyst, a (as my mother affectionately calls me) spiritual arsonist. I am not supposed to build up a church to pastor for the next 20-30 years. I am supposed to start things, train people up, and then move on to the next project. So, I hear your caution, but I am not sure that I understand it. I figure that the worst that comes out of this is that a "church" never actually gets off the ground, but we have a really good Bible study. Are there specific dangers I should be aware of? What pitfalls do you see? Common mistakes? If your caution is just "be careful", that's not very helpful to me, though I appreciate you voicing it. It takes some courage to voice caution when someone is excited, and I want to really hear you. The course is a three month full time thing. I will see if I can find any resources for you from it, but it involves a lot of lectures and note taking so I am not sure if the whole thing is available in hard copy. I will ask and get back to you. New Covenant Ministries International Info Have a look at the above site, we are a relating church and there is a lot of info there. You will also see there is a contact in the US. Blessings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e lansing Posted August 8, 2010 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 895 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/23/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted August 8, 2010 Couple of questions and some advice from one whose church has planted out all over the place. You think God wants you to? Thats great, but every couple I have ever seen plant a church were consumed by the desire to do so. They did not think God wanted them to, they knew. They pulled kids out of school, sold houses and immigrated to places like New Zealand, and in one case Mongolia. Without the real prospects of good employment, housing, a vehicle, etc. My point is that they simply knew. They were on fire and nothing was going to stop them. But...... They had spent a lot of time as cell group leaders and elders, (one was a pastor), had spent time teaching, dealing with church finances, utility bills, building additions, etc. They had experience in running a church. And then they went on a church planting course for three months (one was a farmer who left his farm for three months to do the course). They learned about income tax laws, banking regulations, civil law, counseling, preaching (although all had taught in church over and over), and even fire and vehicle parking regulations. I really commend you for your desire. The church needs people willing to be sent. But I caution you as a brother who cares for other believers, that there is far more to planting a church than most of us think. Blessings I will agree with fez. It is more then fire desire. I am part of a plant and our denomination is all about planting churches. However, it is not for everyone. Here are some things to think about. How do you know God has called you to do this? Is your church ready to invest lots of cash in you? Do you have testimonies about how God has brought you through impossible issues? I ask because you will need to know how to live by faith when things do not go as planned, like faith promises to give and they do not come through. Are you reaching strangers for Christ now? Have you ever discipled someone from non-believer to spirit-filled disciple of Christ ever in your life? Have you ever organized people to accomplished something, like a food drive, shelter, community work, ect? These are just a few of the things you should think about before jumping in and wasting the churches resources. Planting is a supernatural thing, therefore one needs to know if they are called or not. A calling is a lot different from a job and should be thought through with prayer and fasting and confirmation. My best advice would be for you and your family to go to some struggling church and get behind the leadership to help that church grow and learn about the inner wokings and issues of church life, all the while praying and fasting and looking for God to confirm His will for you and your life. Blessings! e Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Lamps Posted August 21, 2010 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 109 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/24/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/13/1973 Author Share Posted August 21, 2010 How do you know God has called you to do this? I know that I am called to serve in ministry. It is what I live and breathe. Whether I am called specifically to plant churches or not remains to be seen. I know that I am a starter. I know that I am a teacher. I know that I am a seed planter (evangelist). If this is God's will, He will bless it. If not, He won't and I will be that much closer to what He does want. Is your church ready to invest lots of cash in you? No. That is not the model we are using. The parish, the diocese, not even the province have the money to fund this venture. It is entirely a volunteer effort. I have a side business that affords me a lot of scheduling flexibility. My husband has a similarly flexible small business and works a fulltime job. We'll worry about money later. Right now, we are just making connections and studying the Word. So far, it is church in our living room. Do you have testimonies about how God has brought you through impossible issues? I ask because you will need to know how to live by faith when things do not go as planned, like faith promises to give and they do not come through. Oh, you betcha! Try paying two mortgages on one salary for 2+ years without relying upon God. We have seen God do the impossible in our lives plenty of times. We don't even stress out anymore when disasters befall us. We just hit our knees and ask Him how He's going to work this one out. And, it always does work out. We've really learned what's important and what we need to let go of. God is so big, and our problems are so small. Are you reaching strangers for Christ now? Have you ever discipled someone from non-believer to spirit-filled disciple of Christ ever in your life? No, not really. I have no problem sharing my faith, but I have not personally led someone through the final stage of commitment to Christ. I'm not really involved in concerted efforts to reach the unreached, but the subject of Jesus sure does seem to come up naturally a lot. I end up evangelizing as I go. I want to do more. I am looking for more opportunities to get to know people in our community. With more connections come more conversations and more seed planting. Have you ever organized people to accomplished something, like a food drive, shelter, community work, ect? Yes. In the last five years, I have been allowed a number of opportunities in church to spearhead projects, coordinate events, and be a regular part of teaching and discipleship. These are just a few of the things you should think about before jumping in and wasting the churches resources. Planting is a supernatural thing, therefore one needs to know if they are called or not. A calling is a lot different from a job and should be thought through with prayer and fasting and confirmation. I totally agree with you. Any ministry is a supernatural thing. Thank you for challenging me with these questions. I appreciate your candor and your thoughts. What do you mean by "confirmation"? Do you mean whether others confirm that they see a calling or agree that we should do this? If not, please explain. If so, our vestry (like a church board) has just unanimously commissioned us as church planters under their authority. We did not want to move forward without first getting their say-so. Now, that we have it, we held our first Bible study on Thursday. My best advice would be for you and your family to go to some struggling church and get behind the leadership to help that church grow and learn about the inner wokings and issues of church life, all the while praying and fasting and looking for God to confirm His will for you and your life. Blessings! This is kind of what we have done for the last three years at our sending parish. However, to find a small, struggling church nearby to bolster would be impossible. Ours is the only parish of our denomination for about 500 miles. There is no other church to get behind. But, I do see your point. You are suggesting that we get some concrete experience in church leadership before trying to start another one. Good advice! There are also many struggling churches that need help. I hear that, too. However, the existing churches in our area don't seem to be effectively reaching the community. We see church planting not as a way to expand the institution, but a way to spread the gospel. All else is secondary to that goal. Thanks Fez and e lansing for the advice and questions. Keep them coming. I'm sure there is more to consider than what we have considered thus far. I am looking at that New Covenant Ministries website right now. Thank you everyone for your prayers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e lansing Posted August 22, 2010 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 895 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 9 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/23/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted August 22, 2010 What do you mean by "confirmation"? Do you mean whether others confirm that they see a calling or agree that we should do this? If not, please explain. If so, our vestry (like a church board) has just unanimously commissioned us as church planters under their authority. We did not want to move forward without first getting their say-so. Now, that we have it, we held our first Bible study on Thursday. This sounds great. Let me give you my example. It was over the course of 7 years when pastors over me would come to me and tell me that God wanted me to know that He was calling me to full time ministry. Before this had happened the Lord had already been speaking this to me but I was unsure and so I waited for Him to confirm this through others who knew me. I never told any of them about what the Lord was doing in me, even after the first confirmation. I wanted to be 100% sure and waited till it happen at lease three more times. It did and it was through people who did not know each other. I knew before anyone else knew and when it was confirmed, it was great. If I did not know it was Gods will for me, i would not attempt to lead a ministry, it can be a very negitive experince regardless of my ambitions. btw, the money thing, its sad to say however, but it takes money to do ministry. Most would say all I need it faith, this is true, however, true faith requires actions and the action in church planting is planning and having plan b-c-d-e-f. At any rate pray to plan and plan to pray! God bless you e Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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