wyguy Posted August 9, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 373 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 3,331 Content Per Day: 0.59 Reputation: 71 Days Won: 10 Joined: 10/15/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/24/1965 Share Posted August 9, 2010 The constitution doesn't really mention marriage. *nod* However, the equal protection clause speaks about prop 8. The Equal Protection Clause was put in after the Civil War to guarantee rights to African-Americans. It has NOTHING to do with marriage. Marriage has always been understood by our government to be between one man and one woman. That's why Utah was ONLY admitted to the Union when they gave up Polygamy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted August 9, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted August 9, 2010 One issue here is that arguing against gay marriage will achieve nothing if it cannot be argued in a courtroom on the basis of the constitution. I tend to hear very little about that. I don't get what you mean. There's no Constitutional protection of the right to marry. For anyone. See here; click on 'marriage'. http://www.usconstitution.net/constnot.html#marr The constitution doesn't really mention marriage. *nod* However, the equal protection clause speaks about prop 8. So you're for Gay Marriage? How does this Jibe with your Faith in God and His Word? Because it is someone elses activities that have no direct effects on anyone else. I have no desire to obsess about what people do in their bedrooms, get indignant about it, and demand that the government pass laws or amend the constitution so that people are restricted from doing something because someone is offended by it. It's none of my business, and big government isn't the solution. Artful Dodge. What does God have to say about Homosexuality and it's destructive effects upon a society? What does your Faith have to say abour Homosexuality and it's destrucive eefects upon the individual and the society in which the individual lives? peace, dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burning_Ember Posted August 10, 2010 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,009 Content Per Day: 0.30 Reputation: 100 Days Won: 3 Joined: 09/20/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted August 10, 2010 The Equal Protection Clause was put in after the Civil War to guarantee rights to African-Americans. It has NOTHING to do with marriage. Marriage has always been understood by our government to be between one man and one woman. That's why Utah was ONLY admitted to the Union when they gave up Polygamy. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. If a law made by a state deprives anyone of life liberty or property, that causes problems. Prop 8 qualifies under that. Artful Dodge. What does God have to say about Homosexuality and it's destructive effects upon a society? What does your Faith have to say abour Homosexuality and it's destrucive eefects upon the individual and the society in which the individual lives? peace, dave On the list of things that destroy society, man-dates are significantly below things like Lifetime, Crab Fishing Shows, or American Idol. Crime, poverty, war and the lack of peoples ability to subsist when the economy collapses are probably the most destructive things to society. Y'know, important things. What happens with those things? People get killed, maimed, stop contributing to the economy, infrastructure is destroyed and families are torn apart. Without proper healthcare people end up dying. Businesses have trouble functioning when money stops flowing. If certain politicians spent as much time talking about some of those issues rather than posturing about things like homosexuality, or attempt repeal the 14th and 17th amendments, or don't vote for giving healthcare to the first responders for 9/11 because it closes tax loopholes, then maybe they would actually solve some of those problems, like giving healthcare to the first responders on 9/11, almost a decade later. It is more important to some politicians to posture on issues like that than it is to solve that healthcare issue, or to make some effort to solve those issues like poverty, healthcare, and crime. In short, homosexuality is on the list of things that do fairly little in any realistic sense to society. Poverty, crime, lack of a general standard of living... Jesus/The Bible talked far more about those issues than was ever written about homosexuality in The Bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthitjah Posted August 10, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 1,285 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 17,917 Content Per Day: 2.27 Reputation: 355 Days Won: 19 Joined: 10/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted August 10, 2010 The Equal Protection Clause was put in after the Civil War to guarantee rights to African-Americans. It has NOTHING to do with marriage. Marriage has always been understood by our government to be between one man and one woman. That's why Utah was ONLY admitted to the Union when they gave up Polygamy. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. If a law made by a state deprives anyone of life liberty or property, that causes problems. Prop 8 qualifies under that. Artful Dodge. What does God have to say about Homosexuality and it's destructive effects upon a society? What does your Faith have to say abour Homosexuality and it's destrucive eefects upon the individual and the society in which the individual lives? peace, dave On the list of things that destroy society, man-dates are significantly below things like Lifetime, Crab Fishing Shows, or American Idol. Crime, poverty, war and the lack of peoples ability to subsist when the economy collapses are probably the most destructive things to society. Y'know, important things. What happens with those things? People get killed, maimed, stop contributing to the economy, infrastructure is destroyed and families are torn apart. Without proper healthcare people end up dying. Businesses have trouble functioning when money stops flowing. If certain politicians spent as much time talking about some of those issues rather than posturing about things like homosexuality, or attempt repeal the 14th and 17th amendments, or don't vote for giving healthcare to the first responders for 9/11 because it closes tax loopholes, then maybe they would actually solve some of those problems, like giving healthcare to the first responders on 9/11, almost a decade later. It is more important to some politicians to posture on issues like that than it is to solve that healthcare issue, or to make some effort to solve those issues like poverty, healthcare, and crime. In short, homosexuality is on the list of things that do fairly little in any realistic sense to society. Poverty, crime, lack of a general standard of living... Jesus/The Bible talked far more about those issues than was ever written about homosexuality in The Bible. Actually, The reason that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed is because Homosexuality was the pinnacle of their complete and utter arrival at abomination. Their societies arrived at open and raging Homosexuality because they first neglected True Religion. Everything else follows that neglect and usually ends right where we in the Western Nations have finally arrived. God has said Le 18:22 You shall not lie with a man, as with a woman: it is abomination. Le 18:23 Neither shall you lie with any animal to defile yourself with it: neither shall any woman stand before an animal to lie down with it: it is perversion. It's actually so perverse and abhorrent a practice that God speaks about it in the company of beastiality. He goes on to say; Le 20:13 If a man also lies with a man, as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. It's mentioned with the destructive practice of Incest because of it's destructive effects on the society. Again, these practices weren't tolerated in Israel but on very specific occasions and those were times like these; Jg 17:6 In those days there was no king in Israel, but every man did that which was right in his own eyes. A society has reached the pinnacle of it's self destruction and Judgment when times like these are reached. Homosexual Marriage is an Ancient Boundary that no society should cross; Pr 22:28 ¶ Remove not the ancient landmark, which your fathers have set. God's Law is set so that we do not entrench on others. peace, dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted August 10, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.89 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 10, 2010 In short, homosexuality is on the list of things that do fairly little in any realistic sense to society. You are kidding, right? The decay of family structure, cause by homosexuality and the increase in divorce and sex outside of marriage, has caused HUGE decay in social society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 If a law made by a state deprives anyone of life liberty or property, that causes problems. Prop 8 qualifies under that. Wrong. Marriage is not a constitutional liberty. Marriage can be regulated, just like any other act. I do not have a "right" to be married. In short, homosexuality is on the list of things that do fairly little in any realistic sense to society. Poverty, crime, lack of a general standard of living... Jesus/The Bible talked far more about those issues than was ever written about homosexuality in The Bible. Jesus also did not discuss rape, incest, child molestation, spousal abuse, infanticide, or suicide. Should we assume that since Jesus did not mention those things that they have a small impact on society??? The Bible says quite a bit about homosexuality. The Bible teaches that homsexuality is a sin, and not just a sin, but an abomination to God. The Bible could not be clearer on God's stance on that issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Shalhevet~ Posted August 10, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 334 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 2,049 Content Per Day: 0.38 Reputation: 120 Days Won: 4 Joined: 08/13/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted August 10, 2010 In short, homosexuality is on the list of things that do fairly little in any realistic sense to society. Poverty, crime, lack of a general standard of living... Jesus/The Bible talked far more about those issues than was ever written about homosexuality in The Bible. You do understand that by saying homosexuality is not a sin, you are also saying that the written Word of God is untrue? It is not that homosexuality is right/wrong that is the dangerous issue here. The real danger here is that you have been deceived by denying the infallible Word of God. It is written: Leviticus 18:22 - You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination. and again Leviticus 20:13 - If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them. and again Romans 1:26-27 - For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. and again I Corinthians 6:9(NIV) - Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. and again I Timothy 1:8-11 (NASB) - "But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted." and again Jude 1:6-7 (NASB) - And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day, just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire. again You have been greatly deceived. Praying for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted August 10, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.89 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted August 10, 2010 To be fair, he didn't claim it wasn't a sin, rather that it did little to society in comparison with other issues such as poverty and crime... I disagree with him, but he still didn't say it wasn't a sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyguy Posted August 10, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 373 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 3,331 Content Per Day: 0.59 Reputation: 71 Days Won: 10 Joined: 10/15/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/24/1965 Share Posted August 10, 2010 In short, homosexuality is on the list of things that do fairly little in any realistic sense to society. Poverty, crime, lack of a general standard of living... Jesus/The Bible talked far more about those issues than was ever written about homosexuality in The Bible. You do understand that by saying homosexuality is not a sin, you are also saying that the written Word of God is untrue? It is not that homosexuality is right/wrong that is the dangerous issue here. The real danger here is that you have been deceived by denying the infallible Word of God. It is written: Leviticus 18:22 - You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination. and again Leviticus 20:13 - If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them. and again Romans 1:26-27 - For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. and again I Corinthians 6:9(NIV) - Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. and again I Timothy 1:8-11 (NASB) - "But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted." and again Jude 1:6-7 (NASB) - And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day, just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire. again You have been greatly deceived. Praying for you. The Bible also says homosexuals are filled with: (Romans 1:29) 1. Unrighteousness 2. Wickedness 3. Maliciousness 4. Envy 5. Murder 6. Deceit Homosexuals are: (Romans 1:30) 7. Backbiters 8. Haters of God 9. Despiteful 10. Boasters 11. Inventors of evil things (Romans 1:31) 12. Without natural affection 13. Unmerciful 14. Implacable 15. Without understanding God gives homosexuals up to uncleaness (Romans 1:24) Homosexuals dishonor their own bodies between themselves (Romans 1:24) Homosexuals corrupt the Word of God by changing His truth to a lie (Romans 1:25) God gives homosexuals up to their vile affections (Romans 1:26-27) God gives homosexuals over to a depraved mind (Romans 1:28) God says homosexuals who do these things deserve death because "not only do they continue to do these very things, but also approve of others who practice them." (Romans 1:32) In short, homosexuality is on the list of things that do fairly little in any realistic sense to society Burning Ember, if you don't think the list of things they are and do, do not affect society very much, you are fooling yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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