Is Atheism a religion?

[Guest]

.... First of all, it is possible that God has reasons for allowing evil to exist that we simply cannot understand....

Amen!

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 2 Peter 3:9-10

[Guest]

Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth. Matthew 5:5

>>>>>()<<<<<

Can you post the passage that says there are no atheists or agnostics? I can't find it....

Yes, thank you MorningGlory, I was going to ask that as well

Because A Man Refuses The True Of God

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. Psalms 14:1

They Are Eager To Follow False Views Of Reality And Bury Their Minds In Man's Babble

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Colossians 2:8

And These Lies Will Not Stand On Judgement Day You See

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Romans 1:20

So The A-Thesis's Only Hope Is That Death Hides

For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. John 5:26-29

And That Is Too Is A Fool's Bet You See

But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death. Proverbs 8:36

For Because He Is Risen, Hallelujah!

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8

Death Is Defeated

O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Corinthians 15:55-57

Yet There Is Time

O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him. Psalms 34:8

Yet

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:36

Love, Joe

Praying!

[nebula]

If I read you correctly you are saying the faith of believers is greater than the faith of atheists. In this I would agree. The question, which is still on the table, is whether or not atheists can be said to have any faith at all. I am undecided.

The word in Hebrew that is translated as "faith" means "strong trust."

Your faith is whatever you place your strong trust in (i.e. human/your intellect and reason).

[nebula]

I am concerned about the millions of children who die of hunger and disease every year.

Plus the victims of catastrophic events and the pain in the animal world, etc.

The very fact that many animals need to kill in order to survive casts big doubts

on a benevolent design. That I could not understand and caused my irreversible de-conversion.

My pastor (or his catholic equivalent) told me that this was caused by original sin and the fall.

But that did not convince me anymore. I found that disproportionate and unjust, especially

for the animals (except maybe one) who did not and could not sin, and cannot even hope to

go back to heaven.

I was thinking about this a bit more - your whole reason for rejecting belief in God - and I realized something. Ebwly's post happens to follow a similar train of thought, apparently.

But this is what I observed:

You began thinking that if you were God, or if you were to describe what God should be like, life would be a certain way.

Since life is not "this" way, you concluded then that God does not exist.

IS this logical

[Rick-Parker]

Those who reject the Truth, who don't have faith that these events are true, Atheists, Agnostics, Buddhists, Carbalists, Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists, and all other non-believers, will meet Him someday, knowing that they made a terrible mistake and will try to beg their way out of what they are now certain is their fate. But by then it will be too late.

Those listed above have their own convictions that they also believe strongly. Many of those convictions may be equally dependent on faith. Preaching faith-based beliefs, however, can't overcome other faith-based beliefs. I think all that works here are well reasoned arguments that in some measure are difficult to refute. What otherwise would cause someone to trade one faith-based belief system for another? If, as you said, faith is a "firm belief in something for which there is no proof" then why would anyone exchange a treasured belief for another that has no emotional draw?

Most Christians grieve for those such as you, who are lost and destined for an eternity separated from God, to suffer forever in the Lake of Fire.

I do understand this concern as it has been expressed to me by many people.

Of course, you don't believe this, but that doesn't mean that it won't happen for it surely will.

I would need to be persuaded in some way, though I don't know how. I once believed, as I've mentioned before, and I once struggled to rebuild my faith before I lost it. If I couldn't find a way then I am at something of a loss as to understand how I could recapture it now. If there is a God then I think it would take a direct intervention, because there seems not to be any concrete evidence for a deity. The diversity of religious beliefs through time and around the world speaks to the lack of concrete support for any particular belief system on earth.

How do we know? Because Christians have faith that what God says in the Bible is the Truth.

Yes, you have no shortage of faith. You just lack anything concrete with which to persuade the nonbeliever.

You claimed to have had faith in God in the past. If you were able to walk away once you had experienced even a little bit of what Jesus has to offer, then you were never saved to begin with. You were never born again. You never had a relationship with the Father. So you should stop believing the lie Satan is telling you. I also shake the dust from my feet on this topic.

Check this out.

Edited October 31, 2010 by Parker1

[nebula]

The word in Hebrew that is translated as "faith" means "strong trust."

Your faith is whatever you place your strong trust in (i.e. human/your intellect and reason).

But I can't help but think there is a difference in believing Mohamed flew to Heaven on a winged horse, and faith that toggling a an electric light switch will produce light. One is belief in something that can't be proven and the other is knowledge based and testable. There are many things I have strong trust in but which I don't think merit being called faith.

Bad comparison.

There's no risk involved in toggling an electric light switch. Toggling a light switch costs you nothing.

Strong trust as this is more like an investor who pours tons of money into a project in faith (trusting, hoping, with no guarantee) that even more money will be returned to him.

What do you have a trust in that involves a risk, or even risks your life? What do you trust in that comes with a cost?

P.S. You started a thread called Oh Canada in the Inner Circle, where this Canadian cannot post. You wondered near the end of the thread what that large building was. It is the Chateau Frontinac hotel.

OK, thanks!

[Guest treesong]

You may bring all those objections now, but really, look deep within yourself. Don't say to me you don't know GOD, you do. Its just you consciously suppress him and rebel against him, you consciously force yourself to believe he doesn't exist.

Thanks for the lengthy explanation.

I don't know why you insist that we really know God but we simply rebel against Him. That does not make sense

and it is actually a hidden insult to our intelligence. If we really knew God, as the all powerful creator

of the universe, it would be extremely stupid to rebel against him (I have problems to even rebel against

my boss ). I still do not understand why Adam and Eve did that, it does not look too rational.

The fact is that we honestly do not believe that He exists. It should be easy for you to comprehend. Take Allah,

for instance. What would you say, if I tell you that you know Allah in your heart but you decided to rebel

against him? I agree, that would be silly.

Now, take your feelings for Allah and try to transfer them to my feeling to your God, and you will

have an idea of what we really think.

Now, your points are very interesting. I will try to address them one by one (on separate posts):

1. Free will

God has given us freedom of choice. Having this freedom means that we can rebel against God and make choices that are contrary to His desires. Since we can say that evil is anything contrary to God's perfect and holy will, then anyone who chooses anything contrary to God's perfection is committing evil. But this is the risk of being able to have freedom of choice. Evil and suffering are the result of making bad free choices.

This does not explain why we see so much suffering in the animal world. Battle for survival

in nature is very violent and painful for most of the animals. Does that imply that animals

abuse their free will, too? For me the fact that an animal, in order to survive, must kill another

animal, is not a sign of benevolent design.

But in order to better tackle the free will issue, I need your opinion on the following:

- Does free will exist in Heaven, too?

[Fez]

That's what your demand for God preventing suffering boils down to - Him forbidding any choice but one. Then you'd be griping that God was a tyrant.

I am afraid I cannot avoid coming to this conclusion anyway.

Even earthy tyrants are not capable to control our thoughts. We are still free to rebel against them

and face the consequences if we do. I fear I cannot see a big difference.

Go live in North Korea for a year. Then come back and talk to us......

[nebula]

I am afraid I cannot avoid coming to this conclusion anyway.

Even earthy tyrants are not capable to control our thoughts. We are still free to rebel against them

and face the consequences if we do. I fear I cannot see a big difference.

Go live in North Korea for a year. Then come back and talk to us......

Good point that.

The people are forced to wear pictures of Kim Jong-il over their hearts and bow down to a statue of him. And that's only the start.

[Guest treesong]

The people are forced to wear pictures of Kim Jong-il over their hearts

Could be, but in Christianity:

"The people are forced to accept existence of Jesus in their hearts".

I know that we are not technically forced and that is our choice, but the prospect of infinite torment

looks like a pretty strong threat to me. And this is the threat I hear all the time. I understand that

this is effective to scare people out in case they have doubts, but it does not sound too democratic

and tolerant to me, I am afraid.

Still, I do not see a big qualitative difference.

Take two persons who lived an equally moral and righteous life. One believed and the other didn't.

One will get to infinite torment and the other to infinite bliss. The only difference is the acceptance

of Jesus. Don't you think that this is a bit disproportionate? I found it very difficult to accept that for God this

is the sine qua non to reach salvation.

Edited October 31, 2010 by treesong