Isaiah 6:8 Posted October 16, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 426 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 3,633 Content Per Day: 0.58 Reputation: 222 Days Won: 13 Joined: 03/23/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 08/26/1978 Share Posted October 16, 2010 Lets start with the word Shall we? Matthew 7 6 "Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces. How many times have I fallen to this. Thrown my pearls before swine only to have them trampled and then myself turned upon and trampled! Many times I have gotten into debates with those who are not really searching or wanting to have an open dialog, but only to argue and debate and prove their points no matter what. Many times this is with atheists, but not always. There comes a time with every debate where you cross from... 2 Timothy 4 (New King James Version) Preach the Word 1 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: 2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 5But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. To the line where as it says in vs 3 "They will not endure sound doctrine". At that point, we are no longer preaching but only throwing out the good jewelery and setting ourselves up for attack. My my problem is detecting the line. I think I know where the line is. It for me at leas is when I fall into there game and become prideful. When I am no longer concerned about the truth, but only concerned about being right, or "Winning" the argument. When I can no longer turn the focus on Jesus but can only focus on being smarter, wiser, or clever then my opponent, who is not really the person I am debating but rather the spirit behind that person. Ephesians 6:12 (New King James Version) 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. I had one paster say, "You can win an argument, but you may very well lose the soul". So I was thinking. Is it worth winning a debate with a person, if that debate simply pushes them away from Christ? I will have to admit, I have won my fair share of arguments. Funny thing is I have yet to win a person to Christ by beating them up in an debate. I have, however, lead people to Christ through showing his love. I have disarmed people wanting to debate who wanted only to argue by simply telling my testimony. Revelation 12:11 (New King James Version) 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. So how many times have I been so non Christ Like that I have wound up hurting the kingdom rather then advancing it?.... How many times have I gone in circles with people who are stubborn in their ways when I should have changed the subject to the only one that matters. Jesus. How many times have I tried to win a soul by debate rather then prayer. For if I prayed for them, first of all I would be doing battle with the REAL enemy, and as it says one verse down from the pearls vs... Matthiew 7 (New King James Version) 7 "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. 9 Or what man is there among you who, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent? 11 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask Him! 12 Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets. So when I find myself bashing my head against the wall not making any progress, perhaps its time to stop, do a pride check ( I am very full of pride the Lord has shown me today!) remember who the real enemy is, and pray. Pray for a breakthrough, pray for a softening of their heart and pray that the Lord works in their life. That His will will be done, not ours! Because if we turn to prayer... James 5:16 (New King James Version) 16 Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much. So in a way this post is me confessing before you all that I do have pride issues, that in my pride I did not think I had! C.S. Lewis in "Mere Christianity" was talking about pride as I was listening to it while driving and the Lord convicted me on this! So I hope you all can hold me accountable if you see me starting to be stubborn and prideful vs loving. Thanks -Isaiah- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted October 16, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.95 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted October 16, 2010 Good post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladypeartree Posted October 16, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 37 Topic Count: 539 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 32,792 Content Per Day: 5.03 Reputation: 23,472 Days Won: 224 Joined: 06/21/2006 Status: Online Birthday: 02/23/1953 Share Posted October 16, 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winsomebulldog Posted October 16, 2010 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 732 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 113 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/26/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/30/1971 Share Posted October 16, 2010 Lets start with the word Shall we? Matthew 7 6 "Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces. How many times have I fallen to this. Thrown my pearls before swine only to have them trampled and then myself turned upon and trampled! Many times I have gotten into debates with those who are not really searching or wanting to have an open dialog, but only to argue and debate and prove their points no matter what. Many times this is with atheists, but not always. There comes a time with every debate where you cross from... 2 Timothy 4 (New King James Version) Preach the Word 1 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: 2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 5But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. To the line where as it says in vs 3 "They will not endure sound doctrine". At that point, we are no longer preaching but only throwing out the good jewelery and setting ourselves up for attack. My my problem is detecting the line. I think I know where the line is. It for me at leas is when I fall into there game and become prideful. When I am no longer concerned about the truth, but only concerned about being right, or "Winning" the argument. When I can no longer turn the focus on Jesus but can only focus on being smarter, wiser, or clever then my opponent, who is not really the person I am debating but rather the spirit behind that person. Ephesians 6:12 (New King James Version) 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. I had one paster say, "You can win an argument, but you may very well lose the soul". So I was thinking. Is it worth winning a debate with a person, if that debate simply pushes them away from Christ? I will have to admit, I have won my fair share of arguments. Funny thing is I have yet to win a person to Christ by beating them up in an debate. I have, however, lead people to Christ through showing his love. I have disarmed people wanting to debate who wanted only to argue by simply telling my testimony. Revelation 12:11 (New King James Version) 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. So how many times have I been so non Christ Like that I have wound up hurting the kingdom rather then advancing it?.... How many times have I gone in circles with people who are stubborn in their ways when I should have changed the subject to the only one that matters. Jesus. How many times have I tried to win a soul by debate rather then prayer. For if I prayed for them, first of all I would be doing battle with the REAL enemy, and as it says one verse down from the pearls vs... Matthiew 7 (New King James Version) 7 "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. 9 Or what man is there among you who, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent? 11 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask Him! 12 Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets. So when I find myself bashing my head against the wall not making any progress, perhaps its time to stop, do a pride check ( I am very full of pride the Lord has shown me today!) remember who the real enemy is, and pray. Pray for a breakthrough, pray for a softening of their heart and pray that the Lord works in their life. That His will will be done, not ours! Because if we turn to prayer... James 5:16 (New King James Version) 16 Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much. So in a way this post is me confessing before you all that I do have pride issues, that in my pride I did not think I had! C.S. Lewis in "Mere Christianity" was talking about pride as I was listening to it while driving and the Lord convicted me on this! So I hope you all can hold me accountable if you see me starting to be stubborn and prideful vs loving. Thanks -Isaiah- Gee, thanks Isaiah for dancing a jig all over MY toes with this one! Just kidding. But I so understand what you're saying because I struggle with the exact same issue! Sometimes I get so caught up in "winning" that I forget why I'm here in the first place. Thanks for the reminder, my friend! BTW, isn't it amazing how God uses each of us to help the rest of us along some times? I am so thankful for this community and the wisdom (and humility) I have found here! Praise the Lord! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted October 16, 2010 Share Posted October 16, 2010 Good points Isaiah 6:8. I used to only apply that scripture about casting pearls before swine to non-believers, but I have found you have the same issues with Christians if they don't have an open mind. Sometimes it is pride that keeps us debating, feeling the need to win the argument. Sometimes it is assuming you can have an open conversation about anything and through the debate, perhaps learn something? At times that works, and at other times it doesn't. Ideally, if we see the debate is not going to lead to anything but strife, and that others aren't willing to at least consider the other side, it is wise to leave it alone. It is just hard to do sometimes when you feel the other side is saying things you know are not true. Regardless, your point is well taken. Winning the debate is not always the most important thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bella1958 Posted October 16, 2010 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 4 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/02/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/30/1958 Share Posted October 16, 2010 Pride goes before a fall. Lord help me to deal with the pride in my own life. Search my heart, O Lord and show me any and all hidden sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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