Israel

[Matthitjah]

Quote Yaakov,

Particularly, so since we have begin this topic I have

  been davening (praying) for you all. Blessing each of

  you all particularly so those of you who are engaged

  in this discussion on this topic Israel here in this

  form. May we continue on this topic as the Ruach

  haKodesh (Holy Spirit) may lead. And may God

  continue His work within each of us as I believe He

  has here. And finally, I want to encourge you by

  sharing the following that I believe ADONAI would

  have me now to do as follows:

             Your word is a lamp for my foot

             and light on my path.

                               Tehillim/Psalms 119:105

                                (Complete Jewish Bible-

                                  English translation)

 David's concern here is about the way that we are to walk

 in this present and evil age. He's focused on two things

 in the above verse:His foot and the path he walks.

 May we learn here form ADONAI about this shared in this

 verse above. David reveals to us here that we can be

 assured that if we will trust completely and obey God's word

 we won't walk in darkness.

 There will be times when we will be in complete darkness

 in this life. Perhaps only able to see no further than a couple

 of feet in any direction. We may have problems.

 We may face danger even as we turn the next corner.

 However, in the midist of it all we can know this:

     If we are really obedient to God and His word

     as revealed to us in scripture in any situation

     we may face, that we won't walk in darkness.

     We won't ever step into a place that would

     cause us to stumble and fall.

But we must understand that this can be applied only to the

place of our next foot step. God doesn't promise that we will

ever be able to see further than only one step ahead.

Beyond this, we may have no way of knowing what may

await us ahead. Yet, that isn't what we are to be

concerned with. All God requires of us is that we take

the next step in obedience to His word.

But the greatest mistake we could make in this would be

to try to see too far ahead into the darkness around us.

If we were to do that we might place our foot next

in the wrong place; in which there is no light

for the moment.

               

      Our response of Trust: Abba in heaven, show

      me, where now to place my foot in obedience

      to Your word, and as for my future. I will leave

      it in Your caring, loving mighty hand.

This was of particular relevence to me.

GBU richly Dear Brother.

Keep davening this was a blessing to me.

Peace :il: Amen

[tsth]

Dear Ya'akov,

Just watching your posts.  I am glad to see them.  

This verse came to mind as I read.

Eze. 37:17 Then join them one to another for yourself into one stick, and they will become one in your hand.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[traveller]

Quote Yaakov,

Particularly, so since we have begin this topic I have

[Matthitjah]

Yaakov,

Where'd ya go brother?

Just to reiterate my last post on this thread concerning Psalm 119 .

Thank the good Lord. He really is hitting home on this particular verse for me. I have come into contact with it on several ocassions since I last posted on this thread.

I am one to worry about what direction to next take. He is trying to say concentrate on me I'll lead. Big task of Faith. I have been raised to logically deduce everything. I do hear the Lord though. He is speaking clearly.

I will let Him do the driving and lean on Him.

He has been trying to show me this all along.

Praise the Almighty Lord Creator of all that is seen and unseen.

Keep davening Yaakov I will too. Bless you Brother.

Peace

:il: Amen

[Guest Grace777]

peace,

i've enjoyed your posts.

what is the issue on predestination, i've been wondering about that?

Peace in Jesus the Messiah

[Guest Brother Ben]

Greetings in the name of Jesus Christ

                         The Church has a calling from God, and Israel has a calling

                         from God. But the calling of the Church, and the calling of

                         Israel is not the same calling. The Church has a higher

                         calling form God than Israel's calling.

                         Israel's calling from God is on the earthly or natural plane.

                         The Church's calling is on the spiritual or supernatural plane.

                         Supernatual! What does that mean? That means more than

                         or greater than the earthy or the natural. That which is

                         eternal is greater than the temporal. By Yaakov

From your words I understand that you are very knowledgeable in the word, and it is with great apprehension that I make the following statements concerning Israel.

Please do not take offense, but the church's calling is not greater than Israel's. But rather the calling of the church is to be grafted into Israel and to go out into the world teaching the world to observe all things in the word of God.  While salvation is a free gift of God if one wants to be blessed he must obey the commandments of God .

Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.  The house of Israel will inherit all things.

Who is Israel?  If I were to merely give my thoughts about this subject they would be of little value without first basing them on the Holy Bible.

From your posts I can see that you are a messianic Jew and as such you believe also in the New Testament.

I do not believe in replacement theology, it is believed by those in the church who want to lay hold to the promises to Israel while they love the world and fail to keep Gods commandments.  

The teaching that Jesus Christ did away with the commandments of God is believed by many and is in fact taught from many in the pulpits across this country. This was the lie that was behind the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. Never mind Matt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Yes I am aware that some of the natural branches were broken off that the gentiles might be grafted in.  We need to consider the word might and branches.  More on this later and at the proper time.

It is my belief that the house of Israel is comprised of those that keep the commandments of God, and are adamant about the word of God.

Exod 19: 5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

The nation of Israel was to be a nation of people who would  keep   the commandments of God, and a  nation whose constitution would be the torah.

All Israel will be saved because they have, they will, and they want to keep the words of the Lord. My thoughts can be summed up in; Ruth 1:16  Ruth said, Intreat me not to leave thee, or to return from following after thee: for whither thou goest, I will go; and where thou lodgest, I will lodge: thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God: and she was grafted into the lineage of Jesus Christ being the grandmother of king David.

It was the House of Judah that gave the world the words of God, and it will  be the house of Israel that rules the world with Gods word. He that rules himself well with the word of God is or will be part of the House of Israel. The house of Israel will inherit the throne of  David, in part because of the redeeming work of Christ on Mt.Calvary's cross.  

Back to the question who is Israel

Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

Rev 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which  receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen,

Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The house of Israel are the 144 thousand they are also the two anointed ones who are represented by the two olive trees and the two candlesticks. More on this at the proper time.

They are also the valley of dry bones in Ezek 37:1 The hand of the LORD was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones,

3 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest.

4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.

10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.

11 Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel:

15 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,

16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:

17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.

18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?

19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.

20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.

21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.

24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.

25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.

27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

28 And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.

In closing if anyone wants me to tie the valley of dry bones and the 144 thousand together I will gladly do so. Those that are knowledgeable in the scriptures probably know where I am going with this. This post is already too long, and If I have offended anyone please forgive me, and allow us to discuss this with brotherly love.  

May 5,03 9:55 pm

May we all BE BLESSED, AS WE KEEP GODS COMMANDMENTS.

Brother Ben Shelah

[Guest]

Greetings brother Ben,

I have been away here from the board here for awhile.

In fact, it had only been that I had been notified by

someone that you had replied here on this toplc

''Who is Israel? Who is the Church?'' Being the reason

that I am back now. After being gone from this message

board for a while.

I perceive that the Ruach haKodesh (Holy Spirit)

had lead you to this topic. If I am correct, and I do have

a definite sense of knowing that I am. Then I would

only encourge you.To proceed with your posting here

on this biblical topic of Israel. And I am delighted that

ADONAI (literally, my Lord, the Lord) may have send

you here to help or work with me here to help to

bring the church to come to be more be in alinement with

the purposes of God concerning Israel.

That has priorty as for my part, as for how I believe

ADONAI would have me serve Him now, in the

kingdom. Not exclusively so. But does have much to do

with how I believe ADONAI would have me now to serve.

To help others to understand God's plan for Israel

and His love for the Jewish people.

As for my part, brother. I am Messianic. As you noted.

(A Messianic Jewish or Gentile believer is simply some

one who appreciates and understands their rich

heritage in Jesus and in whom have come to be

connected with the Hebraic root of true

Christianity, that's all.)

Am I a Jew or am I a Gentile. Well, I suppose that depends

on who you ask and what they define as a Jew, in a

genetic sense, anyway. I had never considered myself

being Jewish in that sense. But yes, I am Messianic.

And I am as a believer in Jesus. (Of couse, If we are very

Hebraic. It's Yeshua!) And I am as a believer

more generally assoicated with a Messianic Congregation.

But as a just a by the way thing: ''Just since I had started

this tread on the topic I received some information sent to

me from Eretz-Yisael (the land of Israel) that I had never

sought after, in which uncovered that I do have a Jewish

ancestry, that I never knew I had until just recent weeks

in fact. Which totally, blowed my mind.

And since, this happened I have been away form this

message board for a while involved with some other things

relating to God's work. Anyway, enough of that back to

the topic Israel. Just as a by the way mention that's all.

Perhaps a few here whom in a certain sense know me. May

at least might find that a bit interesting I felt, and being the

the reason I mention it. Yes, I have learned now that

genetically speaking I do have a foot in both camps: ''Jews

and Gentiles''. And until now this I

really all my life had never known. And I am now 51 years old.

So to me at least that's a long time. Indeed, It was an

interesting thing to me to come to learn I have a Jewish

ancestry.

[Guest]

Just wanted to highlight this for you all whom love

[Guest Brother Ben]

Dear Brother Ya'akov

May I try and relieve your fears.

Again I do not, do I not believe in replacement theology. And as a Gentile believer I do not believe that a Jew must believe in Jesus to be saved, but that is another thread for another time if someone is interested.

Brother Ya'akov as a messianic Jewish believer I understand that you accept the New Testament along with the Old Testament as Gods word, and this is good for we have common grounds upon what we base our beliefs upon.

If you will kindly allow me to address those that are somehow leaning to this false teaching.

For those that are young in the messiah, and or believe replacement theology;  it teaches that the church has replaced Israel and that all the promises to Israel now belong to the church. How can that be?  Simply  put it cannot be, for it would violate the very words of God.

Allow me to explain

I believe that some individuals in the churches will be grafted in according to Romans chapter 11. Being grafted into and replacement of, are different one from another they are totally two different things.

Those that teach replacement theology greatly twist the scriptures.  

However I do believe that there will be some out of the gentile churches that will be grafted into the house of Israel.  As Ruth the Moabitess was.

In Romans chapter 11, it talks about the root and the branches being holy, and some of the branches being broken off  because of unbelief, and other branches being grafted in

Paul admonishes us not to boast but to fear lest we would be broken off.

Being grafted and replacement  are words that have totally different meanings.

I believe the words of Paul in Romans chapter 11 that some branches will be grafted in and the God of Abraham Issac and Jacob has not replaced Israel with the church.  

Rom 11:16 For if the first fruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Several  points  upon which I base my belief  is found in.

Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.

6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Exod 19: 5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

From the above verses of scripture I find that Zacharias was keeping the commandments as was required of him according to the word of God and so now I see that he is one of the righteous branches that will not be broken off.

Consider this; God expects His people to keep His commandments, and being God, He the God of Abraham Issac and Jacob must operate in the confines of His Holy Word. How could God expect His people to keep His words and then break them Himself. Simply put, He cannot. Those that believe and teach replacement theology  are believing a lie from the very pits of hell for if replacement theology were true it would force God to violate his own word and cast aside Zacharias in favor of a church which cannot even agree on how an individual can be saved.

Grafted into with Zacharias and the other holy branches, Yes  

Replacement theology NOOOO. Replacement theology will not fly because it cannot fly because the Father cannot disannul His promises to His choosen.

Dear Brother  Ya'akov I hope that I have relieved your fears, and explained to others how that replacement theology is a false teachings.

If I have said any thing that has offended anyone please forgive, the Lord Jesus is not finished with me yet.

Thanks to all of you who read this post  and have a heart and mind to know the  one true God and His Son the Lord and savior Jesus Christ.

Lets all pray for the peace of Jerusalemn.

Brother Ben

Maranatha

[Guest yod]

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