Two Questions For Unbelievers

[Guest shiloh357]

This is where the problem comes in; I have always been a Christian. I have believed as long as I can remember. i'm afraid I don't know how you can know, to your own satisfaction, that the Bible is the truth. I suppose you can consider the worship of cows and eight-limbed goddesses (Hinduism), or a rather corpulent man with a happy face (Buddhism) or an 'allah' that requires you to kill to show your faithfulness and can offer you no assurances as alternatives to Christianity (islam)......or you can choose to believe you were spat out of the mouth of a capricious and random 'Nature' and therefore worship mother Earth (Wicca). Here is where I bow out, not being a theologian or a Bible scholar. You will have to decide for yourself.

I think this is a very interesting post, and I think you hit the nail on the head when you say that the problem is that you've always been a Christian. You can't* see that the same thing can be said about Judaism/Christianity, and many such statements are straw-men. It is comparable for a Taoist to say that Christians worship a Cosmic Jewish Zombie. While somewhat true in a twisted sort of way (I think we all do it to other viewpoints), no one who knows what they're talking about would say such statements accurately reflect Christianity in any meaningful way.

* It isn't so much that people can't see, but having always been practicing Christianity I think people are at a handicap in comprehending how Christianity fits in with other world religions, especially when it comes to matters of faith.

Any similarities between the religions of the world and Christianity are purely cosmetic. When you examine the meat of the claims made, you will find that they are entirely dissimilar to Christianity in the most ways. The only way to make them comparable is to dumb down the claims made by Christianity.

[Believer112]

Pretty much your entire post was not factual.

I have identified myself as a Christian in one of my early posts, and you guys denigrated my denomination (Methodist) in later posts. Instead of getting into a silly spat, I let it go. I should have realized based on those interactions that since you did not respect mainstream versions Christianity, you would not respect other religions.

It seems basic to me that if one expects respect from others, one should be willing to offer respect. Nevertheless, as before when things got "snarky," I don't intend to continue this conversation.

Don't blame Morning Glory. I was the one that pointed out the fact that there are those in your denom who are marrying homosexuals in defiance of God's Word. I don't respect that kind of activity. The Bible says homosexuality is a sin. If you can defend homosexuality over and against what the Bible says, that says alot about your "Christianity." We hold up the word of God over denominations. If that is a problem for you, you may want to reconsider your future here on this board, because we are not ashamed to say that God hates the act of homosexuality, He condemns it and calls it sin. If that makes you angry, your problem is with God and His Word.

Amen!

[Guest shiloh357]

This is exactly what I'm talking about, many Christians have oversimplified understandings of other faiths and do not realize how rich the other faith traditions are.

No, we simply understand that richness of traditions are pretty much worthless when confronted with the reality of sin. You can belong to a beautiful religion, even the most rich and beautiful religion in the world and still go to hell.

You operate from the notion that Christianity can be lumped in with other faiths, and it can't. Jesus' claims about Himself made it clear that HE is the only way to God and no one can come to God except through Him (Jn. 14:6)

MG's example of worshiping cows and an eight-limbed goddess of Hinduism or the worship of Buddha in Buddhism are good examples and statements I would expect a young child of those religions to say. Hinduism doesn't worship cows or even those crazy 'gods', rather a mature Hindu will recognize that each god is a manifestation of a certain characteristic(s) of God; Hinduism is more monotheistic than Christianity in some areas. Likewise, you aren't supposed to worship Buddha(s) in Buddhism or any God or person. Every religion has smart people in it that go in-depth into their said theology. Just because you and other Christians are unaware, or even don't particular care (your loss), of the rich theology of other religions doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It just means that many have a callow, if not severely misinformed, understanding of any religion outside their own.

Doesn't really matter. They can have the richest theology and the most inspiring teachers and just make everybody feel all warm and cheery on the inside. If you don't have Jesus, you have nothing.

Christianity stands or falls on ONE thing. The resurrection of Jesus. The reset of the world boasts of and revels in their enligtenment, and openness ancient sage wisdom and inspiration. They have beautiful temples and relics to venerate and so foth, but none of that means anything.

Jesus is the Way, THE Truth and the Life. It is only through Jesus that mankind has any hope. No other religion offers such. Hinduism is actually quite cruel. Buddhism only leads to the loss of passion/desire and the ultimate goal is nothingness.

A good analogy is a non-Christian telling people that Christianity is the belief and worship in a cosmic Jewish zombie that will give you eternal life if you symbolically eat his flesh and blood and tell him in your mind that you love him and he is your master. All so he can remove the evil inside you that was placed in there because your ancestors listened to a talking snake and ate from a magical tree the Jewish zombie's father, who so happens to be the Jewish zombie as well, put there.

I myself wouldn't like it if someone went around talking about Christianity this way as if it is an accurate representation of Christian theology, would you?

Doesn't matter if that is how they see our theology. People have been saying worse about us for a long time. I guess people like me realize that where the real answers are and we are able be patient and remain unoffended if someone doesn't have an accurate view of our faith.

In fact, it sounds to me like you would almost rather be of some other faith than Christianity.

[Guest]

Christianity

And God spake all these words, saying,

I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. Exodus 20:1-6

>>>>>()<<<<<

This is where the problem comes in; I have always been a Christian. I have believed as long as I can remember. i'm afraid I don't know how you can know, to your own satisfaction, that the Bible is the truth. I suppose you can consider the worship of cows and eight-limbed goddesses (Hinduism), or a rather corpulent man with a happy face (Buddhism) or an 'allah' that requires you to kill to show your faithfulness and can offer you no assurances as alternatives to Christianity (islam)......or you can choose to believe you were spat out of the mouth of a capricious and random 'Nature' and therefore worship mother Earth (Wicca). Here is where I bow out, not being a theologian or a Bible scholar. You will have to decide for yourself.

I think this is a very interesting post, and I think you hit the nail on the head when you say that the problem is that you've always been a Christian. You can't* see that the same thing can be said about Judaism/Christianity, and many such statements are straw-men. It is comparable for a Taoist to say that Christians worship a Cosmic Jewish Zombie. While somewhat true in a twisted sort of way (I think we all do it to other viewpoints), no one who knows what they're talking about would say such statements accurately reflect Christianity in any meaningful way.

* It isn't so much that people can't see, but having always been practicing Christianity I think people are at a handicap in comprehending how Christianity fits in with other world religions, especially when it comes to matters of faith.

Christianity Is About Loving The LORD Jesus Christ For Who He Is

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. Revelation 4:11

And Loving Him For What He Did

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Hebrews 12:2

And For What He Does

If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. John 15:7-9

But Religions Are About Hating The LORD Jesus Christ

But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death. Proverbs 8:36

And About What A Fellow Can Do For The false god Or gods His Soul Is Soiled By

Belshazzar the king made a great feast to a thousand of his lords, and drank wine before the thousand.

Belshazzar, whiles he tasted the wine, commanded to bring the golden and silver vessels which his father Nebuchadnezzar had taken out of the temple which was in Jerusalem; that the king, and his princes, his wives, and his concubines, might drink therein.

Then they brought the golden vessels that were taken out of the temple of the house of God which was at Jerusalem; and the king, and his princes, his wives, and his concubines, drank in them.

They drank wine, and praised the gods of gold, and of silver, of brass, of iron, of wood, and of stone.

In the same hour came forth fingers of a man's hand, and wrote over against the candlestick upon the plaister of the wall of the king's palace: and the king saw the part of the hand that wrote.

Then the king's countenance was changed, and his thoughts troubled him, so that the joints of his loins were loosed, and his knees smote one against another. Daniel 5:1-6

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Simply

And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. 1 John 5:112-13

Trust

And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:

And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him. 1 John 5:14-15

And Be Blessed Beloved

The LORD thy God in the midst of thee is mighty; he will save, he will rejoice over thee with joy; he will rest in his love, he will joy over thee with singing. Zephaniah 3:17

Love, Joe

[MorningGlory]

* It isn't so much that people can't see, but having always been practicing Christianity I think people are at a handicap in comprehending how Christianity fits in with other world religions, especially when it comes to matters of faith.

Christianity doesn't fit in with 'other world religions'. It trumps them.

[Believer112]

Christianity can be quite cruel as well. In the middle ages Christians would go around looking for Jews to beat up and possibly kill during passover. I honestly don't think Christianity can claim any moral high-ground, there are both good and bad people and doctrines in every religion.

Christianity isn't cruel. Man is the cruel one, after all man killed Jesus. I believe a Christian still has higher moral values than the non believing evolved society. Look at crime in the US and Mexico (drug wars). I wonder how many are Christians?

Edited January 9, 2011 by Believer112

[Guest]

Christianity isn't cruel. Man is the cruel one, after all man killed Jesus. I believe a Christian still has higher moral values than the non believing evolved society. Look at crime in the US and Mexico (drug wars). I wonder how many are Christians?....

.... There are other things like this that force me to accept the view that Christians are not morally superior to non-Christians. At worst data suggests that religion in general (Christian or not) is generally destructive to society; the prime example is the U.S. with a very Christendom culture and a very destructive society for a modern country....

See?

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. John 3:7

Yes

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: John 3:36(a)

Or No

and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:36(b)

____________

Believe

Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts. Jeremiah 15:16

And Be Blessed Beloved

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. Ezekiel 36:26

Love, Joe

[LLC]

Two Questions For Unbelievers

From The Blog Of Eric Hovind

Question #1:

Is it possible that the God of the Bible could reveal some things to us in such a way that we can know them for certain?

Question #2:

How do you know anything for certain?

1. God is subjective. Through personal experience, one can become convinced of something particular, however this is not a reliable way of determining a truth from a fallacy. However, in order for me to believe that something is objectively true, it needs to be demonstrable, repeatable, and unbiased.

2. I don't. As a physicist, I could speak for the whole community of physicists when I say that if tomorrow, someone disproved the gravity constant with through rigorous study and observation, everyone would change their viewpoint promptly. The same thing happened when it was proven that the earth was round, or that our planet was heliocentric. We can not know that everything true with absolute certainty. The only way we can come close is through scientific study and observation.

Hope this answers your question!

[Guest]

Welcome to the boards LLC, it's nice to see another person who accepts evolution here.

Yes~!

Welcome

[LLC]

Holy

And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. Hebrews 9:22

Blood

Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things,

as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 1 Peter 1:18-19

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....Working under the impression that the God who sent his "only begotten son" to die for my sins, and to pay for the original sin, is the same God that blinked the universe into existence with His Will, does it not seem absurd that this great sacrifice is necessary?

If god chooses to forgive his creations for doing that which comes naturally to them, why is this terrific sacrifice necessary? Why are we indebted to the Son of God, an extension of God himself? Why not simply forgive and be done with it? Why is bloodshed a requirement?,,,,

The Same

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 Timothy 3:16

Almighty One

See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand. For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever. Deuteronomy 32:39-40

Who Hung On Calvary's Tree

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Hebrews 12:2

Is The One Who Called The Worlds Into Existence

That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. John 1:9-10

And Yet He Calls

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. John 6:47

Come Sinner

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Revelation 22:16-17

Come

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10

Love, Joe

Doesn't do it for me Joey.

Anyone else have a reasonable answer that isn't a direct quote from the book I'm refuting?

Why does God require bloodshed? How can this law that states bloodshed is required be imposed on the creator of everything?

It seems like a very dark and merciless being that would insist on blood and death.

You ask a very interesting question. Why does God require bloodshed?

I am no expert in the field of polytheistic religions, but it is quite obvious that Abrahamic religions derive many concepts and ideology from predating religious dogmas. Bloodshed is one example out of many. Don't take my word for it though. I am sure there is plenty of scholarly research in the field that is available. I am pretty sure that Bart Ehrman has written a little bit on this subject.

Research. In spite of popular belief, knowledge is not the tool of the devil.