Eternal life

[Guest InHisLove]

And yes, salvation is a one-time event; just as much as it is an ongoing process. (Rom. 5:10)

Yes, I agree it is an on-going event.

[Guest InHisLove]

The Straight Path!

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Psalm 23:1-3  

The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not want; he makes me lie down in green pastures. He leads me beside still waters; he restores my soul. He leads me in paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

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Dante Alighieri, a fourteenth century Florentine poet, was thirty-five years old when he wrote The Divine Comedy.  At that time in his life everything was falling apart. He was on the loosing side of a failed revolution, exiled from Florence. Dante's life was flooded with disappointment and uncertainty and from this place of doubt and fear came the first words of The Divine Comedy:  "In the middle of the journey of our life I came to my senses in a dark forest, for I had lost the straight path."  Not always, but sometimes when we face great periods of darkness and aridity it is because we have strayed from the path of the righteous.  Take a moment today and reflect.  Who is leading you in your life right now? Does your life seem like a dark forest?  Come to your senses by acknowledging your waywardness and repent.  Listen for the voice of God.

This is a devotional that I received today through my daily e-mails.  I thought it worth sharing, especially in light of what we've been discussing.  God bless.

[Guest InHisLove]

He saved me by grace and there is nothing I can do to add to my Salvation, He did it all for a poor sinner like me!

With all due respect, I believe that we have a role in our salvation...otherwise, we'd be puppets in God's hands.

I believe that these verses show that we DO partake in our salvation ... as such ...

Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry in order to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them.

[Ovedya]

IHL,

Is there some point you are trying to make; some argument?  In each of the last three posts you have argued with almost every reply.

Dear sister, my salvation is secure. It is not based upon anything that I do or say at any time.  God has justified me through the blood of Jesus Christ, and that is all I need.  I know that you are trying to argue the validity of a certain CC belief here.  There is no profit to this kind of interaction.  Either you believe you can lose your salvation, or you trust in the assurance of your salvation.  Please do not try to convince those of us that know assuredly that we are, and will be saved, that are are not or will not be saved; or that we can lose that which we have trusted in.  There just is no profit in this kind of discussion.

[Guest InHisLove]

Dear brother, there is no argument here.

[godrulz]

God-Man: re: 'Judas was not saved' is a loop hole to support unconditional eternal security (preconceived theology) and not necessarily true. If he was 'saved' and fell away, it would support conditional eternal security. There are many verses that show we are secure in God (you quote these, and I agree...conditional to obedience/abiding). There are many verses that emphasize our responsibility to maintain the relationship and not fall away in rebellion or apostasy. This is related to much of our other theology (Calvin= TULIP vs Arminian 'free will').

The life of the apostate Judas: (cf. Saul; Solomon) (thoughts from Gordon Olson theologian/engineer):

a) Lk. 6:12,13 Jesus prayed to the Father for wisdom and then chose His 12 disciples/apostles...'and Judas Iscariot, who BECAME (was not at the time) a traitor'.

Disciple is the common word for salvation in the Gospels and Acts (believers in O.T. and any stage of N.T. were 'saved' in a strong sense; the cross finalized things)

b) Judas most certainly must have been in a state of salvation when chosen and sent out to REPRESENT Christ (dozens of verses show the group was given authority to preach, etc.).

c) Jesus' popularity declined in His later ministry as he spoke more about the requirements of salvation.

d) Some of those close to Jesus turned back in unbelief (Jn. 6:64). The instant of their forsaking the path of submission and faith was known by Christ, who knew their hearts.

e) Jn. 6:70  says that Jesus wisely chose all 12, but that NOW one was a devil (Judas...was LATER to betray him). It is unthinkable that the Master would chose a 'devil' for Himself, with the object of representing Him in ministry to needy souls on the brink of doom. No leader would think of chosing an opponent to receive all his secrets.

f) Judas WAS trusted as treasurer (Jn. 13:29), but later pursued a path of selfishness contrary to his Master.

g) His doom became sealed (but was not predestined) WHEN SATAN entered him (at that point, not at the start of ministry)= Jn. 13:27...he had rebelled (choice) beyond the recovering mercy of God and was justly abandoned to Satan.

h) He became conscience stricken in remorse after the Lord was condemned, but did not repent (too late). He hung himself and was lost, though once 'saved'. He had received the highest ministry possible to man (minimum qualification would be that He was a saved disciple of Jesus), but had successfully turned aside in rebellion against the most dynamic moral force that man has ever been confronted with- a personalized Divine love (Acts 1:17 Judas WAS one of our number and shared in this ministry; 1:25...apostolic ministry which Judas left...).

[godrulz]

God-Man: re: 'Judas was not saved' is a loop hole to support unconditional eternal security (preconceived theology) and not necessarily true. If he was 'saved' and fell away, it would support conditional eternal security. There are many verses that show we are secure in God (you quote these, and I agree...conditional to obedience/abiding). There are many verses that emphasize our responsibility to maintain the relationship and not fall away in rebellion or apostasy. This is related to much of our other theology (Calvin= TULIP vs Arminian 'free will').

The life of the apostate Judas: (cf. Saul; Solomon) (thoughts condensed from Gordon Olson theologian/engineer):

a) Lk. 6:12,13 Jesus prayed to the Father for wisdom and then chose His 12 disciples/apostles...'and Judas Iscariot, who BECAME (was not at the time) a traitor'.

Disciple is the common word for salvation in the Gospels and Acts (believers in O.T. and any stage of N.T. were 'saved' in a strong sense; the cross finalized things)

b) Judas most certainly must have been in a state of salvation when chosen and sent out to REPRESENT Christ (dozens of verses show the group was given authority to preach, etc.).

c) Jesus' popularity declined in His later ministry as he spoke more about the requirements of salvation.

d) Some of those close to Jesus turned back in unbelief (Jn. 6:64). The instant of their forsaking the path of submission and faith was known by Christ, who knew their hearts.

e) Jn. 6:70

[Guest InHisLove]

excellent explanation godrulz.  Thank you for your contribution.  God bless.  :il:

[martyr]

IHL, In your first post on this topic, you posted dozens of Scripture verses to prove your point.  The fact is none of those verses support the possibility of being able to lose your salvation.  For instance, you posted 1 Corinthians 15:1-2, yet if you read what those two verses are actually saying, there is no reference to being able to lose your salvation.  The part "unless you believed in vain" refers to the impossibility of Christ not being resurrected.

Now, I do believe that a Christian's life will bear the fruit of Christ following, thus we will be putting our faith to action.  It is not this action that gets us or keeps us saved, however.  As the Bible says, "no one can snatch us out of His hand".  That no one includes ourselves.

[Guest InHisLove]

So then what about Judas?  He wasn't "snatched" by anyone else ...  but by his own free will, he betrayed our Lord.  His "works" affected his salvation, did it not?