Guest C.D. Light Posted December 7, 2002 Share Posted December 7, 2002 Are we chosen as in selected from among the multitudes by the Lord? OR do we in our freewill choose the Lord? One thing God will never take away is our free will, our "right" to choose. How can we willingly serve Him if we don't have the choice? If you choose to follow Jesus, YOU chose, God knew that and you can choose to quit or go on as you will. It's that simple. I think it's the "God knew that" part that throws us sometimes. C.D. Light Posted on Nov. 07 2002,6:44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work in Progress Posted December 8, 2002 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 123 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,111 Content Per Day: 0.39 Reputation: 35 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/29/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted December 8, 2002 Maybe to your mind that cheapen what Christ did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tigershark Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 Maybe to your mind that cheapen what Christ did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest C.D. Light Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 I wasn't gonna post in this thread. I wasn't. I wasn't. Sigh - - WIP, I admire that you stated that you "could be totally wrong" but will believe as you do until God tells you different. Most will not admit even Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest C.D. Light Posted December 9, 2002 Share Posted December 9, 2002 Want to add one more point:  Yes God did say that he wished ALL would be saved......that was his desire.....but at the same time he KNEW not ALL would accept salvation, and especially not on His terms. Elitists?  God didnt select a bunch of elitists. It is just a fact of life that "narrow is the gate to eternal  life and FEW there be that find it"  and...wide is the gate to destruction, and MANY go thru it. So many exclude themselves and in retaliation make the accusation that "we think we are elitists".  cd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneAccord Posted December 9, 2002 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 147 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,587 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/03/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted December 9, 2002 Maybe to your mind that cheapen what Christ did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Work in Progress Posted December 10, 2002 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 123 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 3,111 Content Per Day: 0.39 Reputation: 35 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/29/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted December 10, 2002 OneAccord, Yes, Tiger makes much sense in his queries. Like I said, I, too, said the exact same words and asked the exact same questions and showed the exact same frustrations, anger etc. I wrestled with this like nothing I've ever wrestled with and laid awake many nights, crying, praying etc. Ultimately, I got saved. And it all started when I was introduced to this picture of what the whole of the Bible says. After a lifetime of Arminianism and hearing only that view of what Scripture says. (and it deceiving me into thinking I was saved) Of course, I am not saying that only people who believe Calvin's picture of salvation are truly saved as I know that is not true. I'm just saying that in my personal experience, this is what played a major role in my salvation. Once I truly realized in my innermost being what "Grace" really was, it humbled me completely. It doesn't matter how "sharply" anyone answers Tiger. Calvin himself could come in here and make his case, but if the Holy Spirit doesn't make it clear to you, then it will mean nothing. ("you" as in general you, not specifically you. ) I went through heck wrestling with this, I kid you not when I say I would lay in bed at night in a SWEAT over it. And, in an in depth study, I stayed after, time and time again, Â and yelled and cried that this was impossible, it made no sense and no way would I serve some "monster God" like that. And God kept hammering it in, undeniably. After that, and God opening my eyes (IMO), I have no desire to fight another second of my life over it. Or even "debate" or "argue" it at length. Nothing I say, no Scriptures I give will make anyone here see anything. God says to ask for wisdom and He will give it abundantly. HE can fight the case, not me. C.D Light: - Â So many exclude themselves and in retaliation make the accusation that "we think we are elitists So true, girlfriend. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tigershark Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 Now this has become fun. Â Lets define something here. Predestine-1. determine beforhand. Predetermine-1. determine or decree beforehand Preknown- 1. Knowledge before hand 2. of event yet to come I say that God preknew when and who would accept Him and who would not. Â this foresight can be "misunderstood" to be predestination, but I do not believe it is. Â Yes, "The wicked are estranged from the womb" agree they are, but there is something else. Â In order to make a claim of "just" to all men/women God has to appeal to even the "evil". Â This appeal will fall on deaf ears and that is known before the appeal is applied, none the less the matter of "Just" is important enough that it must be done. Â So with this thought in mind God favore those that he knows will accept, and why should He not? Â this "favor" does equal "You were selected from the foundations of the earth" Â this "favor" equals "You were known (implication is to accpet Him) from the foundations of the earth". Â Or with due cause those that were not "quickened" have a valid claim of denial of "just" this valid claim means that God has to accpet he is not "just" and by being not "just" a lier. Â For it is written that God will elevate His words above His name, and his word says he is "just" many tims over. Â So I am saying that somewhere between a "begging God" and a "heartless twisted deranged monster" lies a "father" that is God. Â If I may continue I see Him as a father style figure that tends to His house "hoping" that the good deeds and lifestyle He leads will bring those that are of "value" back home, (the parable of the returning son, if you will) Â He stands with open arms, waiting for the sons/daughters to leave the pig pen and red light district, to start the journey "home". Â Now maybe this is just to simplistic for some, and whatever to them. Â But many many many times we as humans over complicate things that are not that "hard". Â the sky is blue (yes science says otherwise) the grass is green (ditto) but regardless of what science says, my eyes see blue skys and green grass. Â Forgive my wondering into docterine. regards Tigershark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller Posted December 10, 2002 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 827 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 12,101 Content Per Day: 1.50 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 3 Joined: 04/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted December 10, 2002 Now this has become fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tigershark Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 Maybe to your mind that cheapen what Christ did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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